How can the world let this happen?

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kburra

kburra

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Watching this video brings a tear to my eye, especially the effect on the very young children,and living in Australia you want to do something but feel so helpless, originally from England and experiencing World War 2 (being Evacuated) out of London I have a faint recollection of the air raids and bombings,and never thought this could happen again in Europe....something or someone has to stop this mad evil Putin!!
Ukraine refugee crisis: “millions may flee West” - BBC News - YouTube
 

Because of warmongers, militarists, weapons sellers, the arrogant leaders of NATO, and its powerful members including those here in the USA, that foolishly pushed a madman controlling 6000 nukes that can destroy all human life on the planet, even though they could have easily agreed to his demands. Demands they and their media at least during this early stage of events will be the last to point to and instead are pushing a news media narrative that is already crumbling on various neutral news service TV channels if one bothers to look.

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/this-is-why-ukraine-matters.69031/#post-2021625
 
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We have become accustomed to seeing scenes of war on our tv screens, but associate it with Middle Eastern countries. Somehow, it is a shock to the system when it happens in a white, European country. We consider ourselves to be more civilised.....and use diplomatic means to settle our differences.
 

Lavinia said:
We have become accustomed to seeing scenes of war on our tv screens, but associate it with Middle Eastern countries. Somehow, it is a shock to the system when it happens in a white, European country. We consider ourselves to be more civilised.....and use diplomatic means to settle our differences.
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Maybe... It's easier to shrug off going to war in parts of the world that have horrible human rights violations and had already doing a good bit of killing amongst themselves for years on end. But then apartheid in South Africa by white perpetrators against black wasn't at all okay for most of the western world, so it isn't just a skin color thing.

I also think that we're horrified by this because American, Australian, British, Canadian, European, New Zealander... we are a western culture and this is an attack in our own metaphorical backyard.
 
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Nature abhors a vacuum. When one exists, it will be filled. For a variety of reasons, Europe and the U.S. are perceived as weak, and countries like Russia and China will take full advantage of that weakness. Only time will tell how that power vacuum will be resolved.
 
HarryHawk said:
Nature abhors a vacuum. When one exists, it will be filled. For a variety of reasons, Europe and the U.S. are perceived as weak, and countries like Russia and China will take full advantage of that weakness. Only time will tell how that power vacuum will be resolved.
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Yes, sad to say, but we need to change our attitude. This concept of globalisation and world peace is obviously just a European ideal. Russia and Asia still see the world as a competition for supremacy. There is no rational reason why Putin should feel threatened by Europe sharing a border with Russia, yet obviously he does. It's the Alpha male mentality at work.
 
David777 said:
Because of warmongers, militarists, weapons sellers, the arrogant leaders of NATO, and its powerful members including those here in the USA, that foolishly pushed a madman controlling 6000 nukes that can destroy all human life on the planet, even though they could have easily agreed to his demands. Demands they and their media at least during this early stage of events will be the last to point to and instead are pushing a news media narrative that is already crumbling on various neutral news service TV channels if one bothers to look.

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/this-is-why-ukraine-matters.69031/#post-2021625
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So you're blaming this on NATO and the West? With all due respect, that's total BS.
 
JimBob1952 said:
So you're blaming this on NATO and the West? With all due respect, that's total BS.
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As someone just coming up to speed understanding what has been going on, yes am blaming warmongers, militarists, weapons sellers, their politicians, and their media in NATO and the West for pushing a madman with 6000 nukes to the point he sadly did what he did just as very credible experts were warning he would. Be careful taking in all news from whatever with suspicion. Read the links I provided, not just the snippets. Otherwise, you won't understand that perspective. The game elite militarists making decisions seem to be playing is not the one we will read in most news media. The following breaking news points to that very reality.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-lays-5-point-position-201448827.html
snippet:

Following a call with his British, EU and French counterparts, China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi outlined Beijing's position on Ukraine in five points:

1 China "firmly advocates" abiding by the UN Charter and respecting the territorial integrity of all countries, including Ukraine.
2 The security of one country cannot be strengthened at the expense of another, and Russia is justified to have concerns about five rounds of NATO expansion.
3 China believes "all parties" should exercise restraint and protect civilian life and property to prevent a large-scale humanitarian crisis.
4 China supports "direct dialogue and negotiation between Russia and Ukraine as soon as possible" and believes Ukraine "should be a bridge between East and West, not a frontier of great power confrontation."
5 The UN Security Council should be used to "facilitate a diplomatic solution" and "cool tensions rather than fuel them." China has always opposed UN resolutions that invoke Chapter VII of the UN Charter, which authorizes military and non-military steps to "restore international peace and security."
 
The people of Ukraine must be commended for their resistance to this Russian invasion. That, coupled with the almost unheard of protests that have taken place in Russia strongly shows that people are getting fed up with these "dictator" governments. However, a lunatic dictator, such as Putin, is likely to try to use all means at his disposal to try to achieve his goals. Given the power of the Russian military, And that nations nuclear arsenal, the entire world is in danger if he goes "over the edge".

The next few weeks may be some of the most dangerous we have faced in decades.
 
David777 said:
As someone just coming up to speed understanding what has been going on, yes am blaming warmongers, militarists, weapons sellers, their politicians, and their media in NATO and the West for pushing a madman with 6000 nukes to the point he sadly did what he did just as very credible experts were warning he would. Be careful taking in all news from whatever with suspicion. Read the links I provided, not just the snippets. Otherwise, you won't understand that perspective. The game elite militarists making decisions seem to be playing is not the one we will read in most news media. The following breaking news points to that very reality.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-lays-5-point-position-201448827.html
snippet:

Following a call with his British, EU and French counterparts, China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi outlined Beijing's position on Ukraine in five points:

1 China "firmly advocates" abiding by the UN Charter and respecting the territorial integrity of all countries, including Ukraine.
2 The security of one country cannot be strengthened at the expense of another, and Russia is justified to have concerns about five rounds of NATO expansion.
3 China believes "all parties" should exercise restraint and protect civilian life and property to prevent a large-scale humanitarian crisis.
4 China supports "direct dialogue and negotiation between Russia and Ukraine as soon as possible" and believes Ukraine "should be a bridge between East and West, not a frontier of great power confrontation."
5 The UN Security Council should be used to "facilitate a diplomatic solution" and "cool tensions rather than fuel them." China has always opposed UN resolutions that invoke Chapter VII of the UN Charter, which authorizes military and non-military steps to "restore international peace and security."
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Who are the "warmongers" you are talking about? I don't see anybody to blame but Putin. If he doesn't like the idea of Eastern European countries joining NATO, he should remember that he's the main reason for NATO in the first place.
 
HarryHawk said:
Nature abhors a vacuum. When one exists, it will be filled. For a variety of reasons, Europe and the U.S. are perceived as weak, and countries like Russia and China will take full advantage of that weakness. Only time will tell how that power vacuum will be resolved.
Click to expand...
Calm restraint has always been perceived as weakness, whether it be by bullies on the street, or those totalitarian regimes that seek world domination.
 
There may not be much we can do in the short term.

Over time, we can wean Europe from its energy dependence on Russia, build up our military presence in Eastern Europe, make our allies such as Poland stronger than they are, push NATO countries to increase their defense budgets to agreed upon levels, and totally isolate Russia from world markets. With determination we can get Putin to spend his country back into bankruptcy, the way his predecessors did in the 1980s.
 
JimBob1952 said:
Who are the "warmongers" you are talking about? I don't see anybody to blame but Putin. If he doesn't like the idea of Eastern European countries joining NATO, he should remember that he's the main reason for NATO in the first place.
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Like I said read the links . Then you'll have something to discuss.
 
An explanation of NATO expansion. Per David 777 Russia is justified to have concerns about five rounds of NATO expansion.

https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681

From the article.
I understand the concern of Russia to be if NATO increases membership the combined membership will attack Russia. While there is no proof that would happen. A preemptive attack on Ukraine to prevent that is what IMO is what is happening now.

IMO countries should be able to join an organization the assures help if they are attacked. Could it be that both China & Russia see that larger body of allied countries as a threat instead of countries aligning to prevent the kind of action taking place now.
 
David777 said:
Like I said read the links . Then you'll have something to discuss.
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I read the links. I still disagree with you. We can't go around saying "We shouldn't do things because it will make Putin mad." Instead we should do what we think is right, then stand up to Putin when he tries to bully us. And I disagree with your concept that the west is full of warmongers and militarists. If that were true, we wouldn't have had peace among Western nations (except for the Balkan states) for the last 75 years or so.
 
Knight said:
An explanation of NATO expansion. Per David 777 Russia is justified to have concerns about five rounds of NATO expansion.

https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681

From the article.
I understand the concern of Russia to be if NATO increases membership the combined membership will attack Russia. While there is no proof that would happen. A preemptive attack on Ukraine to prevent that is what IMO is what is happening now.

IMO countries should be able to join an organization the assures help if they are attacked. Could it be that both China & Russia see that larger body of allied countries as a threat instead of countries aligning to prevent the kind of action taking place now.
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It could be that China and Russia hate the idea of Western unity. The only way the West can stand up to China in particular is if it does so in a unified manner.
 
JimBob1952 said:
It could be that China and Russia hate the idea of Western unity. The only way the West can stand up to China in particular is if it does so in a unified manner.
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My point exactly. Combined for the common good in this case size matters.
 
RadishRose said:
Belarus, a friend of Ukraine, has flipped over to Putin and is joining the Russian invasion of Ukraine. :mad:
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JimBob1952 said:
I read the links. I still disagree with you. We can't go around saying "We shouldn't do things because it will make Putin mad." Instead we should do what we think is right, then stand up to Putin when he tries to bully us. And I disagree with your concept that the west is full of warmongers and militarists. If that were true, we wouldn't have had peace among Western nations (except for the Balkan states) for the last 75 years or so.
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Expected to catch you in that as there hasn't been enough time since I posted for you to go through all the links I posted. Your impatient response was expected but in any case you are not alone in such opinions and are welcome on a public board like this to present the position of those many thinking so.
 
David777 said:
Expected to catch you in that as there hasn't been enough time since I posted for you to go through all the links I posted. Your impatient response was expected but in any case you are not alone in such opinions and are welcome on a public board like this to present the position of those many thinking so.
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You posted your stuff two hours ago, and I read it. You have a position, and I disagree with it. So be it. Putin's concerns aren't valid. He wants to put a puppet government into Ukraine and dominate it as he does Belarus. This yammer about NATO is just cover for that very basic desire.
 

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