How Every Senator Voted on the Keystone XL Pipeline

nwlady said:
That's interesting Debby, I was wondering about Montana, and even surprised it had a Republican Rep. I guess I assumed it was a democratic majority up there. It makes sense though, with all that land (still plenty of new territory you might say) that someone with dough (like the Kochs) might buy up bunches of it.

Oh, and I think you nailed a super point with your post;) If Canada is building something, Americans gave it to them, why blame them, geesh. I see that a lot though, people don't want to take responsibility, pass the buck, or blame someone else.
Click to expand...


I think in this day and age of corporate supremacy, that there is blame for all and no 'borders' involved in a sense. American, Canadian, Chinese, British, French.....corporations! And they win, the environment is an afterthought and we the people are at their mercy (which they have very little of).
 
This is a long series of wild comments about our use of our environments gifts to make life better for the people. Right now we have coal and oil to help us along into better lives. I believe the last I saw the oil will go for about another 100 to 200 years then be gone. Our coal will last us much longer than that and today, in the US, we have pretty much shut down our use of coal. A real shame. So far our use of wind and solar energy has been so expensive and so undependable that we still must use coal and oil or gas to keep our energy working full time. So much better for all than those places that can only provide help for the people a few hours a day, if at all.

In the US we have lots of our scientist and engineers working to develop other safer and more productive ways of creating power with out creating poison wastes. This may not happen any time soon. But there are some that really do not want the better ways of life for the millions that now live here.

Too bad the so called climate change has not been proven real yet, and likely won't be proven to be out of the range of previous periods of warm and cool cycles of the world over our past history that has been discovered so far. Prior to our current government, with both Republican and Democrat governments, we did not get so involved with this current worry about warming about 0.02 difference in temps up or down with no real knowledge of how things were thousands of years in the past.

For now we really need to use what nature has given us in the earth, or just let the lives of millions be lost. What drives our planes, which give so many with money, the opportunity to go half way around the world to vacation, visit mom, or do business. Take away the oil and all hell will break loose. Then the earth will really become a wild place to attempt to live on.
 

Debby said:
I think in this day and age of corporate supremacy, that there is blame for all and no 'borders' involved in a sense. American, Canadian, Chinese, British, French.....corporations! And they win, the environment is an afterthought and we the people are at their mercy (which they have very little of).
Click to expand...

This idea of corporate supremacy as a way of putting blame is not very smart. Many smart folks that see how to derive new or better things can also see the cost. So they start mergers till enough money and specialties have been brought together to do the job. They do these things ever much better than any government in the world can do them so they are our best source for the future. The environment is not an afterthought for all. Many problems are found during the development of an industry and then get taken care of. There is no reason for trying to put all the blame on individuals and industries for their efforts to try to make things better for the masses if possible. It is the goal of such to make things better for all and they are willing to take the chance with their money and intelligence to do so. Yes, their goal is to do what they are doing successfully and do so on the winning side of the equation. But they do have more ability than most countries can put together into a successful business or efforts. Sometimes they do need watched but mostly the population gains from their efforts and they do learn from their efforts.
 
Don M. said:
This Canadian oil has been moving to our refineries in Texas for the past several years. Our refineries are equipped to process this "heavy" oil, whereas the Canadian refineries, and those in most of the world, can only handle the "light" crude. Presently, this oil is moved mostly by rail tanker, and given the sorry state of some of our rail lines, and bridges, there is a fair amount of risk for derailments, and fires which could soil the environment with a substantial amount of pollution. Underground pipelines are a far safer way to move this stuff, and we currently have over 180,000 miles of similar pipelines moving hazardous/flammable liquids/gasses, with little or no problems.

Some are "concerned" about "eminent domain" issues, but this pipeline will be built in rural agricultural areas, and the farmers will be well compensated for any losses they may suffer during its construction. After it is built, they can go right back to farming over the top of it, as it will be buried several feet deep.

There is no perfect solution to the processing and use of fossil fuels, but we are locked into them for the foreseeable future, so it only makes sense to move this oil in the safest manner. This Oil WILL be processed...the arguments against this pipeline are based more on political bias, than sound common sense.
Click to expand...


I guess "SAFE" is a relative word in your world..

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/01/26/yellowstone-oil-spill-missing-from-keystone-xl/202266

Yellowstone Spill Threatened Health Of Residents Near Keystone XL's Proposed Path

Oil Pipeline Leaked 50,000 Gallons Of Crude Into Yellowstone River. On January 17, an oil pipeline owned by Bridger Pipeline Co. spilled 1,200 barrels of crude oil -- or about 50,000 gallons -- into the Yellowstone River, prompting the governor to declare a state of emergency. Reuters reported:
A small but heavily subscribed pipeline that transports 42,000 barrels a day of crude oil from North Dakota's Bakken region is expected to remain closed on Tuesday after a weekend breach that spilled 1,200 barrels of crude into the Yellowstone River near Glendive, Montana.
[...]
Montana Governor Steve Bullock declared a state of emergency in the state's eastern Dawson and Richland counties on Monday while towns and cities downstream, including Williston, North Dakota, are monitoring their water systems in case of contamination.
However the water supply of Glendive, the town of 5,000 about 10 miles (16 km) downstream of the spill, has already been tested and found to have elevated levels of hydrocarbons. Water intakes in the river for the city have been closed, according to the EPA. The company, EPA and other agencies are trying to get other drinking water supplies for Glendive, the EPA's Mylott said. [Reuters, 1/20/15]

The proposed -- and controversial -- northern leg of the Keystone XL pipeline would be three times the diameter of the breached Bridger pipeline, and pump more than 34 million gallons of oil per day through the Dakotas down into Nebraska and into the southern leg in Oklahoma and Texas. Many landowners and local residents are concerned about what a potential spill would mean for critical watersheds and aquifers -- not to mention what subsequent increased tar sands oil production means for Canadian watersheds.
​
 
Yes SAFE is a RELATIVE word. Pipelines are much safer than having thousands of trucks hauling the oil on the highways. Pipelines are safer than having trains carrying long streams of tankers on the rails.

Why did the pipeline fail? That would be the concern. Faulty pipe line section? Faulty construction? Faulty installation? The pipeline must be monitored to have found it so quickly.
 
Underground oil and gas pipelines have proven to be Far Safer than moving these hazardous chemical via truck or rail. There is NO guarantee that moving this stuff will always be trouble free, but pipelines present the Best option.

One can always find some obscure Partisan Blog to support their fixed opinions, but there have been several truck and train accidents that have received coverage in our more traditional media outlets...here are just a couple.

http://www.npr.org/2014/10/13/35452...railments-prompt-calls-for-less-flammable-oil

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/va-oil-train-derailment-is-latest-wakeup-call-expert/

If those who are against the XL Pipeline did some unbiased homework, they might understand the advantages of this pipeline over moving oil by rail, etc.
 
Don M. said:
Underground oil and gas pipelines have proven to be Far Safer than moving these hazardous chemical via truck or rail. There is NO guarantee that moving this stuff will always be trouble free, but pipelines present the Best option.

One can always find some obscure Partisan Blog to support their fixed opinions, but there have been several truck and train accidents that have received coverage in our more traditional media outlets...here are just a couple.

http://www.npr.org/2014/10/13/35452...railments-prompt-calls-for-less-flammable-oil

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/va-oil-train-derailment-is-latest-wakeup-call-expert/

If those who are against the XL Pipeline did some unbiased homework, they might understand the advantages of this pipeline over moving oil by rail, etc.
Click to expand...

Yes... don... the bloggers just made up the 50,000 gallon spill into the Yellowstone river...
 
These Partisan Bloggers can always find some incident to support their position. However, anyone who is smart enough to look at the broader picture will usually come to a different conclusion. In this particular case, just search on "Oil Spills" and begin reading. Perhaps the most complete listing of spills, worldwide, over the past couple of decades, is this listing on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

If one takes the time to go through this list, it quickly appears that moving oil via pipeline offers far less risk than any mode of above ground transportation.

Moving hazardous materials is NOT a Liberal or Conservative "thing"...and only those whose opinions are already "fixed" have trouble recognizing that.
 
It really is moot... The Pipeline will be vetoed.... There are not enought votes to override it.. AND the law suits will keep it tied up for years...
 
Don M. said:
Underground oil and gas pipelines have proven to be Far Safer than moving these hazardous chemical via truck or rail. There is NO guarantee that moving this stuff will always be trouble free, but pipelines present the Best option.

One can always find some obscure Partisan Blog to support their fixed opinions, but there have been several truck and train accidents that have received coverage in our more traditional media outlets...here are just a couple.

http://www.npr.org/2014/10/13/35452...railments-prompt-calls-for-less-flammable-oil

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/va-oil-train-derailment-is-latest-wakeup-call-expert/

If those who are against the XL Pipeline did some unbiased homework, they might understand the advantages of this pipeline over moving oil by rail, etc.
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure I heard an 'activist' say on a tv news bit a few months ago, that safety isn't the main concern really although it does have a place. This person said building the pipeline would also mean that because it would become easier and (cheaper?), it would incentivise the oil companies (think greedy Koch brothers for one) to open up even more mining and destruction. A sudden and prolonged increase. That is also an issue, that it would result in land destruction and a significant increase in GHG in that region.
 
AZ Jim said:
Those jobs are for today, the pipeline is forever.
Click to expand...
If we want to just talk about jobs, the pipeline could get a lot of people back on their feet. I'd like to hear what some of those construction folks have to say about getting a job going on at last. There's a lot of sides to these things. I remember watching History channel on the building of The Golden Gate Bridge (I know, maybe a totally different scenario) and the huge Dams, Tennessee Valley Authority.

I've been the "temp" job route and it's better then no job. Also, there will be some ongoing jobs because that line has to be monitored and maintenance checks.
 
Ick, I really don't like this, it's a "con" to putting in the pipleline and it came from this site: http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/01/29/3617045/keystone-xl-amendments/

I know they made Eminent Domain "probably" because "the good of the many" on these things, and if I had a farm/home that was in the family for generations, I just can't see how it is right to seize. But then my head goes back to "is it going to benefit the many". I don't know, but I think this is the biggest issue I have with it, but it's been written into our countries constitution so what do we do? I guess I'll have to look back at those that decided on adding it way back when.

[h=3]A symbolic, but ultimately useless gesture for property rights[/h] Another measure that passed was proposed by Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX), who said his amendment would seeks to protect property owners from getting their land seized under eminent domain for the purpose of building the pipeline. Right now, landowners in Nebraska are being served with eminent domain papers from TransCanada, the Canadian company that wants to build the pipeline. Many landowners have filed lawsuits to prevent their property from being seized.
Cornyn’s amendment, however, likely won’t do much to protect those property owners from getting their land taken. The language of the amendment states that the U.S. must “ensure private property is protected as guaranteed by the United States Constitution.” As noted in the Daily Kos, this isn’t really a change, because eminent domain can be used for economic development, and the U.S. Constitution says land can be taken if the company provides “just compensation.”
Conversely, the Senate rejected an amendment that actually would have prevented TransCanada from seizing property owners’ land in Nebraska. Sen. Bob Menendez’s (D-NJ) amendment would have ensured private property could not be seized under eminent domain for the financial gain of a foreign-owned company.
 
nwlady said:
If we want to just talk about jobs, the pipeline could get a lot of people back on their feet. I'd like to hear what some of those construction folks have to say about getting a job going on at last. There's a lot of sides to these things. I remember watching History channel on the building of The Golden Gate Bridge (I know, maybe a totally different scenario) and the huge Dams, Tennessee Valley Authority.

I've been the "temp" job route and it's better then no job. Also, there will be some ongoing jobs because that line has to be monitored and maintenance checks.
Click to expand...

It does not matter if we create jobs or not. Obama will fix it with more benefits and bigger care checks. He does not care about our extreme debt of over $19 trillion and willingly will add to the debt to have his way.
 
I know people get sick of me bringing up Joe the Plumber, but I'll just never forget that. It sure didn't look to me like Obama gave a dam that day, with the average, or maybe below average as far as enough work. I just put myself in Joes place that day.
 
Here's part of an email from Arkansas senator Tom Cotton.

Sig.PNG

Tom CottonKeystone XL Pipeline
On Thursday, the Senate voted to approve the Keystone XL Pipeline after weeks of a robust and transparent debate. I was proud to sponsor this bill and happy to vote for it because this project is a win for Arkansas. The Keystone XL Pipeline will lower energy costs, create and sustain hundreds of jobs in the Natural State at Welspun Tubular, and provide our businesses much needed certainty. The final bill also contained additional measures to protect Arkansans and their tax dollars from government overreach and inefficiency.
The fate of the Keystone XL Pipeline is now in President Obama’s hands. After six years of delays and veto threats, Arkansans and Americans are rightly tired of his weak excuses. It’s time the President put workers and families first. He should sign this bill immediately and approve the Keystone XL Pipeline
 
It's hard to say what he'll do, some people think they know, but whatever it is, I hope it will benefit all the folks involved. I guess my biggest thing is the people that have their property seized, but that has always been a part of growth in America (good growth or bad, for each citizen to decide I guess). I would love to see those families in need of jobs win too. Wish it were a win/win for everyone.
 
nwlady said:
It's hard to say what he'll do, some people think they know, but whatever it is, I hope it will benefit all the folks involved. I guess my biggest thing is the people that have their property seized, but that has always been a part of growth in America (good growth or bad, for each citizen to decide I guess). I would love to see those families in need of jobs win too. Wish it were a win/win for everyone.
Click to expand...

A couple of years ago, Conoco/Phillips laid a new pipeline through an area about 50 miles away from us. For several weeks, farms all along that route were undergoing major disruptions to their crops. However, the local news reported that the farmers were compensated for any/all crop losses during that year, and Conoco/Philips retains the right to go in and dig up any areas that may need maintenance, etc., in the future...AND will compensate any farmer for any losses sustained. In essence, the farmers got their crop money back in 2013 without any problems...and today, they are farming right over the top of that pipeline. IF such a deal is set up with TransCanada for a similar compensation, the problems with imminent Domain should be temporary, and result in little or no loss to the property owners along this pipeline route. I would think that Washington should be wise enough to find a similar solution...but then, who knows?
 
This was good to read. I understand that farmers/property owners are to be compensated. Not everyone is going to be happy in these things, but that's just part of life too, can't please all the people, and some are never pleased because is like their job to be displeased. They must have to dig pretty deep trenches for those lines. Interesting, and in some places they can't go underground can they?
 
nwlady said:
This was good to read. I understand that farmers/property owners are to be compensated. Not everyone is going to be happy in these things, but that's just part of life too, can't please all the people, and some are never pleased because is like their job to be displeased. They must have to dig pretty deep trenches for those lines. Interesting, and in some places they can't go underground can they?
Click to expand...

We passed by this construction a couple of times on our way to/from the city, and it looked like they were burying their pipes about 6 or 8 feet underground. At one point, they even closed down the highway that we normally take, and rerouted traffic on about a 10 mile detour while they went under the roadway. Today, if you pass through that area, it's as if nothing ever happened, and the only evidence is about a 100 yard stretch of the highway that shows newer pavement. If this XL pipeline is done in a proper manner, any disruptions to the farmers, etc., should be temporary, and the end result will be a far safer and cheaper way to move this oil....AND, it WILL be moved, one way or another. Far better to move it underground, than to risk a major accident as a train is traveling through a populated area, and derails, etc.
 
I think it is way more efficient as well. Is any of that oil being hauled by ships? I know somewhere someone said that an oil-spill on land would be bad, but in our oceans seems way worse as far as spreading, and being carried on and on. Lesser of two evils I suppose:( I can't help but think about the jobs that will be provided, and hopefully to the right people. A pipeline can only be as good as the people and tools that build it. Which is going to prevent the most accidents/spills. Lots of pros and cons, again.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top