Humans Are a Strange Species

feywon

Senior Member
Recently, some very racist comments around black people being of lesser intelligence were posted here on this forum. Turned my stomach, shocked others also. Who can be certain how far this prejudice goes? Contempt is a very slippery slope.
I'm thinking i may have missed that thread, probably just as well. On the other hand i've had so much exposure to both covert and overt bigots of various kinds that it might not have shocked me, and if others were 'handling' it, calling them on it i may not have engaged. Some discussions i don't trust myself to stay within rules here while still denouncing such attitudes.
 

Let's be honest, some may feel more than think it
You make a good point, many of us have feelings that we don't act on. Can't entirely undo prejudices.
i (as well as others) have been publicly labeled 'deviants'
Not necessarily a bad thing, I like some "deviants", more interesting people.
 

ElCastor

Member
Location
Northern CA
Recently, some very racist comments around black people being of lesser intelligence were posted here on this forum. Turned my stomach, shocked others also. Who can be certain how far this prejudice goes? Contempt is a very slippery slope.
I am Caucasian with an interest in genetics. Is it acceptable for me to acknowledge to acknowledge the superior median IQ of East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews?
 

ElCastor

Member
Location
Northern CA
Speaking as a psychologist, and a former academic, IQ tests largely prove one’s ability to do IQ tests.
Good point, but coincidentally those IQ tests also seem to be related to the Nobel Committee‘s selection of prize winners. While Jews comprise less than two tenths of one percent of the world population, they have won more than 20% of the Nobel prizes.
https://amazingjews.org/the-nobel-prize-why-have-more-than-20-of-all-recipients-been-jews/

As for those pesky East Asians, many of whom were brought here as day laborers, Asian household income in Redmond Washington, a suburb of Microsoft, exceeds that of their Caucasian neighbors. Apple‘s chief competitor is Samsung, a South Korean enterprise, and Taiwan Semiconductor is, you guessed it, the most sophisticated chip manufacturer in the world. Would you be interested in research on Asian and Caucasian skull volume? Probably not.
 

spectratg

Member
Location
Adamstown, MD
We humans are a strange species. We can look at other animals, horses, for instance and looking at 2 horses, who are markedly different colors or 1 is male and 1 is female, and say, "Look! Two horses." Both are still horses. Yet, we sometimes--too often--look at another human who is a different color or sex than ourselves and say, "Subhuman!" How strange.
I should think that most animals recognize the distinctiveness of individuals of their own species much more so than they do the specific members of other species.
 

ElCastor

Member
Location
Northern CA
That is an interesting statistic. Why do you think it is? Difference in education, culture, inherent intelligence, or something else?
Genetics. Among Jews It really only applies to the Ashkenazi. One theory has it that when they emigrated into Eastern Europe, as the crucifiers of Christ they were denied membership in trade guilds. However, the same Christian population despised the “money changers in the temple”. This provided an opportunity for the more intelligent among the Jewish immigrants - banking. Jewish women were believed to prize successful men, and in a wealthy environment they had lots of children. This may have also had a downside - genetic disease, such as Gaucher, Tay Sachs, and Cystic Fibrosis which were imbedded in the Ashkenazi DNA.
 
Genetics. Among Jews It really only applies to the Ashkenazi. One theory has it that when they emigrated into Eastern Europe, as the crucifiers of Christ they were denied membership in trade guilds. However, the same Christian population despised the “money changers in the temple”. This provided an opportunity for the more intelligent among the Jewish immigrants - banking. Jewish women were believed to prize successful men, and in a wealthy environment they had lots of children. This may have also had a downside - genetic disease, such as Gaucher, Tay Sachs, and Cystic Fibrosis which were imbedded in the Ashkenazi DNA.
This is treading on controversial ground.

However I am not sure we should deny that there are some genetically based differences between races, just so it is not used to discriminate. Its all a bell curve, all races have more and less intelligent people, maybe there is a small difference in the average, or maybe not.

I did some Google research and it appears some credible folks have studied and published on this issue:

Intelligence differences between European and oriental Jews in Israel https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17052383/

A Jewish Gene for Intelligence? https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-jewish-gene-for-intelligence/

Natural history of Ashkenazi intelligence https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16867211/
 

Nathan

Well-known Member
Good point, but coincidentally those IQ tests also seem to be related to the Nobel Committee‘s selection of prize winners. While Jews comprise less than two tenths of one percent of the world population, they have won more than 20% of the Nobel prizes.
https://amazingjews.org/the-nobel-prize-why-have-more-than-20-of-all-recipients-been-jews/

As for those pesky East Asians, many of whom were brought here as day laborers, Asian household income in Redmond Washington, a suburb of Microsoft, exceeds that of their Caucasian neighbors. Apple‘s chief competitor is Samsung, a South Korean enterprise, and Taiwan Semiconductor is, you guessed it, the most sophisticated chip manufacturer in the world. Would you be interested in research on Asian and Caucasian skull volume? Probably not.
Some try to split hairs to show that their human subgroup is somehow superior to others. But, actual scientific study doesn't support such notions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_intelligence
 

ElCastor

Member
Location
Northern CA
Some try to split hairs to show that their human subgroup is somehow superior to others. But, actual scientific study doesn't support such notions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_intelligence
Sorry. I anticipated this kind of response, but I believe you are wrong. Our genetics influence many aspects of our lives, intelligence being just one. I'll post something, but won't kid myself into believing it will change your mind.

"Intelligence is Determined Primarily by Genes
85% of variations in intelligence are due to genetic variations… Here are the arguments that demonstrate it without a shadow of a doubt."

https://human-intelligence.org/intelligence-is-genetic/
 

SeniorBen

Senior Member
Genetics. Among Jews It really only applies to the Ashkenazi. One theory has it that when they emigrated into Eastern Europe, as the crucifiers of Christ they were denied membership in trade guilds. However, the same Christian population despised the “money changers in the temple”. This provided an opportunity for the more intelligent among the Jewish immigrants - banking. Jewish women were believed to prize successful men, and in a wealthy environment they had lots of children. This may have also had a downside - genetic disease, such as Gaucher, Tay Sachs, and Cystic Fibrosis which were imbedded in the Ashkenazi DNA.
Not to be pedantic or anything, but the Romans crucified Christ — not the Jews. Many Christians did and still do blame the Jews, and that may be what you meant.

Jews have always placed a high importance on learning and education, partially because in many regions and countries to which they immigrated, they weren't allowed to own land so farming and ranching were out. Granted, there were many Jewish farmers and ranchers, but for many, intellectual pursuits were their only means of earning a decent living in diaspora. It became ingrained in their culture. Jewish parents have always taught their children the importance of learning and study, which translated into higher education when it was available to them.
 

SeniorBen

Senior Member
That website is run by Richard Lynn. Here's a little background on Mr. Lynn:

Richard Lynn (born 20 February 1930)[1][2] is a controversial English psychologist and author. He is a former professor emeritus of psychology at Ulster University, having had the title withdrawn by the university in 2018.[3] He is former assistant editor and current editor-in-chief of the journal Mankind Quarterly, which is commonly described as a white supremacist journal and purveyor of scientific racism.[4][5][6][7][8] Lynn studies intelligence and is known for his belief in ****** and racial differences in intelligence.[9]

Many scientists have criticised Lynn's work on racial and national differences in intelligence for lacking scientific rigour, misrepresenting data, and for promoting a racialist political agenda.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lynn

Got anything a bit more scientific? :ROFLMAO:
 

ElCastor

Member
Location
Northern CA
That website is run by Richard Lynn. Here's a little background on Mr. Lynn:

Richard Lynn (born 20 February 1930)[1][2] is a controversial English psychologist and author. He is a former professor emeritus of psychology at Ulster University, having had the title withdrawn by the university in 2018.[3] He is former assistant editor and current editor-in-chief of the journal Mankind Quarterly, which is commonly described as a white supremacist journal and purveyor of scientific racism.[4][5][6][7][8] Lynn studies intelligence and is known for his belief in ****** and racial differences in intelligence.[9]

Many scientists have criticised Lynn's work on racial and national differences in intelligence for lacking scientific rigour, misrepresenting data, and for promoting a racialist political agenda.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lynn

Got anything a bit more scientific? :ROFLMAO:
Why should I bother?
 

ElCastor

Member
Location
Northern CA
You might learn something.
Here's something you might find educational -- nothing to do with intelligence, but genetic differences? Ever noticed the dominance of African contestants in Olympic running events? Gosh, could genetics have anything to do with that? Nah, you say.

"Black runners 'have speed genes'
Study of Kenyan athletes reignites controversy over race and sporting prowess
John Arlidge
Sat 25 Nov 2000 19.47 EST
It has been dismissed as racist and divisive, but scientists are confronting the greatest taboo in sport: that black athletes are 'genetically programmed' to run faster and longer than white athletes.

In the most comprehensive study of the biological differences between African and European athletes, Scandinavian researchers compared runners in Kenya and Denmark. Their findings confirm what observers have long suspected: that many Africans have greater stamina and speed than Europeans."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/nov/26/johnarlidge.theobserver
 

win231

SF VIP
Location
CA
Not to be pedantic or anything, but the Romans crucified Christ — not the Jews. Many Christians did and still do blame the Jews, and that may be what you meant.

Jews have always placed a high importance on learning and education, partially because in many regions and countries to which they immigrated, they weren't allowed to own land so farming and ranching were out. Granted, there were many Jewish farmers and ranchers, but for many, intellectual pursuits were their only means of earning a decent living in diaspora. It became ingrained in their culture. Jewish parents have always taught their children the importance of learning and study, which translated into higher education when it was available to them.
That explains my incredible I.Q. which is so high, it can't be measured.
 
From time immemorial Jews have valued education. It is not one bit surprising the Jews have won so many Nobel prizes.

Any group or race that does not push their children to achieve in school is always going to be judged inferior.
I think you are probably right, and somehow that explanation feels better than genetics. Particularly European Jews, for centuries they were oppressed and had limited opportunities, forcing them into things like banking that required more education.
That explains my incredible I.Q. which is so high, it can't be measured.
LOL! Mine is so high that it has never been measured...
 

Nathan

Well-known Member
Sorry. I anticipated this kind of response, but I believe you are wrong. Our genetics influence many aspects of our lives, intelligence being just one. I'll post something, but won't kid myself into believing it will change your mind.

"Intelligence is Determined Primarily by Genes
85% of variations in intelligence are due to genetic variations… Here are the arguments that demonstrate it without a shadow of a doubt."
I don't know why you think that I am "wrong"....or why you would care about changing my mind.
As a lay person I nevertheless have a good working knowledge of genetics and current thought regarding intelligence.

My comment was only addressing the the idea that one "race" is inherently more intelligent than another. Further, if I hadn't said it in this thread I'll say it again, that the notion of "race" is pretty meaningless when discussing humans, that there are physical and intellectual variations within the human species.
Here is an excerpt from a Wikipedia article the summerizes my view of race, within the Human species.

A race is a categorization of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into groups generally viewed as distinct within a given society. The term came into common usage during the 1500s, when it was used to refer to groups of various kinds, including those characterized by close kinship relations. By the 17th century, the term began to refer to physical (phenotypical) traits, and then later to national affiliations. Modern science regards race as a social construct, an identity which is assigned based on rules made by society. While partly based on physical similarities within groups, race does not have an inherent physical or biological meaning.The concept of race is foundational to racism, the belief that humans can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.
 
That website is run by Richard Lynn. Here's a little background on Mr. Lynn:

Richard Lynn (born 20 February 1930)[1][2] is a controversial English psychologist and author. He is a former professor emeritus of psychology at Ulster University, having had the title withdrawn by the university in 2018.[3] He is former assistant editor and current editor-in-chief of the journal Mankind Quarterly, which is commonly described as a white supremacist journal and purveyor of scientific racism.[4][5][6][7][8] Lynn studies intelligence and is known for his belief in ****** and racial differences in intelligence.[9]

Many scientists have criticised Lynn's work on racial and national differences in intelligence for lacking scientific rigour, misrepresenting data, and for promoting a racialist political agenda.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lynn

Got anything a bit more scientific? :ROFLMAO:
Yikes, I have heard of Richard Lynn. In my professional community, he is more reviled than Dr. Peterson.
 

SeniorBen

Senior Member
Here's something you might find educational -- nothing to do with intelligence, but genetic differences? Ever noticed the dominance of African contestants in Olympic running events? Gosh, could genetics have anything to do with that? Nah, you say.

"Black runners 'have speed genes'
Study of Kenyan athletes reignites controversy over race and sporting prowess
John Arlidge
Sat 25 Nov 2000 19.47 EST
It has been dismissed as racist and divisive, but scientists are confronting the greatest taboo in sport: that black athletes are 'genetically programmed' to run faster and longer than white athletes.

In the most comprehensive study of the biological differences between African and European athletes, Scandinavian researchers compared runners in Kenya and Denmark. Their findings confirm what observers have long suspected: that many Africans have greater stamina and speed than Europeans."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/nov/26/johnarlidge.theobserver
I don't doubt that. It's natural selection at work. In Kenya, speed and endurance helped man survive and reproduce and probably more able to protect their mates and children. The slower, weaker men were more likely to get caught by wild animals and eaten.

As horses and dogs can be bread to be faster and able to run further, the same thing can happen through natural selection with any species including humans.

As far as natural selection and intelligence, while it's possible that IQ plays a role, physical prowess is probably more important.
 

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