I am an Atheist and always have been.

Some of you, if truly searching for meaning, especially those wondering about their eternal existence, should do some actual research yourself instead of speculating from your own ignorance and personal religious experiences contaminated by dominating usual flawed denominational dogmas. Today given the Internet, there are vast amounts of previously hidden scholar's research, both old and new, on the Bible and the Christian religion. The New Testament was written by belatedly putting solid oral tradition processes onto paper, that I can tell from the way some comment, don't understand how that works. And no, No, and NO, the Holy Spirit inspiring ALL the OT and NT scripture is utter nonsense.

If one really wants some of the answers some members are asking, it is not going to come from shallow, terse nonsense within this web forum or others. And probably not from some Christian denominational authorities that usually have focused agendas per their church. The below link is a short summary of how the New Testament came about. There are many books one could just buy and read plus vast amounts online if one figures out where to look.

https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk/blog/how-new-testament-was-created/

A lot of people talk about the New Testament but I'd be surprised if any of you have even read any of the longer letters like Romans start to finish. Or better yet, done so with a guide book explaining whatever. It's not that the letters are that long, but rather many people today would rather waste their time watching tv, playing video games, reading some romantic fiction book, or a long list of other unproductive activities including commenting tersely on web threads like this.
 
gruntlabor said:
I don't believe that for a moment!
Rome had plenty of time and to spare to rewrite the scriptures to their satisfaction.
We already know, or at least I do, that they had the moral compass of a pink worm on the sidewalk.
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This is how I see it. I am no expert on the subject.

At the time of Jesus of Nazareth, the Romans had time to rewrite the Hebrew scriptures but could not because there were no Christian scriptures written down at that time, unless you count the correspondence of Paul of Tarsus. As the cult of Christianity began to challenge Roman culture the Roman leaders sought to obliterate Christian followers and they had to hide in the catacombs to worship.

If the Romans wanted to rewrite the gospels they would have had to do so years after the death of Jesus because decades passed before the stories took on their current form. When Constantine became Emperor, Christianity did change in nature. It became more militant, serving kings and emperors but by that time the Christian scrolls were being replicated by hand in monasteries. It is possible that some additions were added but there is an ominous warning in one of the gospels (I forget which) about changing even one word. There could have been mistakes made, of course.

Today we have multiple versions of the Christian bible, and most probably grew out of the Reformation when the Latin was being translated to the common languages of Protestant cultures. The King James Bible was deliberately written an archaic form of English to make it sound more impressive when read aloud in churches and cathedrals.

It is really only last century that contemporary language versions became popular. However, every study bible includes lots of footnotes that help modern readers to understand the context and the time of the original texts.

One thing we forget is that the modern bible does not contain a number of books that are considered to be unhelpful. Some can be found in the older publications. My favourites are a couple of stories about Daniel - Daniel and the giant temple serpent, and Daniel and the young widow being pressured by lecherous older men. These stories can be found in very old family bibles dating back to colonial times. We had one of these family bibles but have passed it on to my brother in law to preserve and pass on as he sees fit.

Several books, including the Apocrypha and early Christian writings, were removed from the Bible due to questions of authenticity, authorship, or doctrinal consistency. My favs are Daniel and Susanna, and Bel and the Dragon. Both are about Daniel who was apparently highly intelligent. I think Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice draws on this story when creating the character of Portia.

Old Testament Apocrypha​

The Apocrypha, also called Deuterocanonical books, are Jewish writings included in the Greek Septuagint but not n the Hebrew Bible. These books were removed from most Protestant Bibles during the Reformation, though they remain in Catholic and Orthodox canons. Commonly cited examples include:
  • 1 Esdras – Covers events similar to Ezra and Nehemiah
  • 2 Esdras (Apocalypse of Ezra) – Contains apocalyptic visions
  • Tobit – Story of a devout Israelite and his son Tobias
  • Judith – Tale of a widow who saves her people
  • Additions to Esther – Prayers and letters expanding the canonical Esther
  • Wisdom of Solomon – Philosophical reflections on wisdom and justice
  • Sirach (Ecclesiasticus) – Ethical teachings and proverbs
  • Baruch – Attributed to Jeremiah’s scribe
  • Letter of Jeremiah – Written to exiles in Babylon
  • Prayer of Azariah, Susanna, Bel and the Dragon – Additions to Daniel (the latter two are my favourites)
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rbtvgo said:
You either believe or you do not. You either trust by faith or you do not. If you trust then there is much to be said. If you do not then move to another topic.
No one, including myself, will spend the effort to convince you to "give it a try".
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Your response came across as unexpectedly dismissive. Earlier, I shared my perspective in the thread titled “I am an Atheist and always have been,” explaining why I identify as an atheist. Now you’re saying, “If you trust then there is much to be said. If you do not then move to another topic.”
I don’t believe it’s your place to decide who should or shouldn’t participate in a discussion, and asking atheists not to comment in a thread specifically about atheism feels especially out of place. I’m simply engaging in the conversation as it was presented and I absolutely was not, and am not, looking for you or anyone else to convince me to "give it a try." It’s certainly possible that I might read an enlightening comment that gives me reason to think deeper but your response is not likely to do so. Perhaps, I misunderstood your comment.
 
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Warrigal said:
If the Romans wanted to rewrite the gospels they would have had to do so years after the death of Jesus because decades passed before the stories took on their current form. It is possible that some additions were added but there is an ominous warning in one of the gospels (I forget which) about changing even one word. There could have been mistakes made, of course.
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If I remember correctly, that ominous warning came from the Book of Revelations, which Christian elders advised me to avoid, until I had a solid footing in Christianity. But there, in the hardest part of the New Testament to believe, we are warned not to change a word under penalty of "whatever." I didn't know whether to ask, "Are you serious," or just toss the book out and walk away.
 
gruntlabor said:
I vaguely remember, when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, that someone reported that they were true to modern translations.
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I too remember that event being reported, and vaguely remember that they were texts that had been incorporated into the Bible. I have no idea what she scrolls said, however. I'm not sure that was reported, at least not in the media issued to the common folk.
 
JustDave said:
If I remember correctly, that ominous warning came from the Book of Revelations, which Christian elders advised me to avoid, until I had a solid footing in Christianity.
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I received the same advice and discarded it, since it conflicts with scripture.

2 Timothy 3:16: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

And Revelation 1:3 says, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written herein: for the time is at hand." This verse specifically encourages believers to study the Book of Revelation.
 
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Rich said:
Your response came across as unexpectedly dismissive. Earlier, I shared my perspective in the thread titled “I am an Atheist and always have been,” explaining why I identify as an atheist. Now you’re saying, “If you trust then there is much to be said. If you do not then move to another topic.”
I don’t believe it’s your place to decide who should or shouldn’t participate in a discussion, and asking atheists not to comment in a thread specifically about atheism feels especially out of place. I’m simply engaging in the conversation as it was presented and I absolutely was not, and am not, looking for you or anyone else to convince me to "give it a try." It’s certainly possible that I might read an enlightening comment that gives me reason to think deeper but your response is not likely to do so. Perhaps, I misunderstood your comment.
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Sorry if my comment had the wrong tone. Sometimes late in the day emotions hold sway over reason and one would be better to leave the computer. Which I should have done. My apologies.

All that being said I will move on. I believe that atheist have a belief in no God present....correct?
I believe that God is present and interacts with us.
Both of us believe by faith and not able to prove our case in either way. We just believe what we believe.
I could quote the bible but that has no baring in this. It would be like a bible study for non believers. Total waste of time. You could quote various scholars and the end result would be debating over who makes more sense. Total waste of time and energy.
The only deference I can find is that we go to different places for support and comfort.
You have friends and family and I need them as much as you. But there are crossroads in life where you are looking for more than the comfort of love ones. No one stands in your shoes but you. You have to face things that others will face in the appropriate time, for them. All the love and support in the world will never help you deal with your own demise.
Just you.................and for me, I have God.
I have said more then enough and again my apologies for my tone as a know it all. Tired and should have walked away from the computer. Have a nice evening
 
I listen to Christian music many hours each day but realize that NO "god" could visit trillions of humans over the centuries. I believe "god" is a human construct made up to give us hope.

I believe the only true god is Father Death, who takes us all out of our illnesses and suffering at the end of life by giving us the BLESSING of death.

I also believe that Medical Aid In Dying (MAID) should be legal everywhere so the suffering could escape the pain and impairment which hits us all as we age. I am 91 now.
 
rbtvgo said:
I believe that atheist have a belief in no God present....correct?
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I have no belief in a god. It's a big difference from believing no god is present. It may sound subtle or even like "no difference," but it is very different. Believing that no god is present would be making a claim for which no evidence is available. It would be a faith based claim, much the same as yours that a god is present.
 
rbtvgo said:
Sorry if my comment had the wrong tone. Sometimes late in the day emotions hold sway over reason and one would be better to leave the computer. Which I should have done. My apologies.
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We all have the occasional bad day. No harm. I've read many of your posts and understand your passion.
I feel like I'm ready for my own demise, I'm at peace with the thought that my end here on this earth will be final. As I've mentioned in other posts, I sort of envy your faith, I wish I could but my brain simply doesn't speak that language.
Have a great night.
 
Mitch86 said:
I listen to Christian music many hours each day but realize that NO "god" could visit trillions of humans over the centuries. I believe "god" is a human construct made up to give us hope.

I believe the only true god is Father Death, who takes us all out of our illnesses and suffering at the end of life by giving us the BLESSING of death.

I also believe that Medical Aid In Dying (MAID) should be legal everywhere so the suffering could escape the pain and impairment which hits us all as we age. I am 91 now.
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Most of us, even if not believers, have been brought up in the Christian tradition which tells us "Thou shalt not kill".
 
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I am an Atheist and always have been.

I wrote: "I wish to live forever...". However, I don't expect that to be within our organic bodies we have when alive but rather would be in some kind of UIE created mechanical robotic body that is controlled by an interface to the electromagnetic field duplicating what is in our wet electrolyte creature brain. This is also why Jesus very clearly stated our body must die before we are reborn in spirit. And "spirit" in the OT is associated with the H2O water molecule in multiple places.

Water is the most incredible molecule in our organic universe and that is key. Essentially, if our body or brain is scanned by a machine downs to atomic levels, then impedances holding the brain wave fields within our brains can then be duplicated using some kind of water based structure.

Earth creature brains create multi-oscillating waves via slow changing cell wall action potentials a depolarization mechanism. That allows protoplasm to build up via evolutionary successes, complex multi field oscillations via ligand electrolyte feedback mechanisms. Any oscillator whether electronic or mechanical requires added feedback in resonant sync to keep it running without stopping from resistive decay.

Now it is possible, advanced intelligent entities may be able to build structures by assigning properties like address tags to substances at the molecular level that then self-assemble within an aqueous environment of electrolytes. In a sense, that is what DNA does but at a much slower reproductive process level.

If so, even complex impedance matching brain structures could be possible. So interfacing that to an advanced technology robotic body is what with scripture certainty had happened to Moses and Elijah that truly died at some point long long before the Transfiguration event, because all 3 synoptic gospels describe such in the Transfiguration verses. It has always amazed me how scholars don't understand how important that is. Much different than raising Lazarus dead from the tomb but then that tends to confuse people into OOO nonsense.

With such a repairable, replaceable machine, one's em field data could essentially live forever. And in fact, if destroyed on say one planet, if the data was stored elsewhere, one's em field could arise again. That is possibly why God just can't destroy evil UIE entities that may exist at the periphery of his realm because another copy would just pop up.

In Star Trek, every time Scotty used the Transporter to move people to different locations, those people were essentially dead and without existence for a few seconds. The fact the other Transporter end could recreate the person from mere data received is not the same as magically transporting a brains actual em field. No a person's EM field is removed from existence and only data of how to recreate it is left. In a few episodes, they actually used the "memory buffer" of the Transporter to do interesting things like remove deceases. As they came out of the Transporter, there would be no way to tell if one had actually been dead and gone for 15 seconds. It would seem like one really did move from point A to B.
 
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Rich said:
We all have the occasional bad day. No harm. I've read many of your posts and understand your passion.
I feel like I'm ready for my own demise, I'm at peace with the thought that my end here on this earth will be final. As I've mentioned in other posts, I sort of envy your faith, I wish I could but my brain simply doesn't speak that language.
Have a great night.
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The Bible says it's foolishness to the natural mind. 1,5 kilo brain can't grasp God. Don't you ever have a gut feeling? Why do you obey your conscience? I believe that's God who is in everyone's spirit and talking to you. You may not believe you have a spirit, but if you are interested in knowing if God exists: seek and you will find.
 
Messy said:
The Bible says it's foolishness to the natural mind. 1,5 kilo brain can't grasp God. Don't you ever have a gut feeling? Why do you obey your conscience? I believe that's God who is in everyone's spirit and talking to you. You may not believe you have a spirit, but if you are interested in knowing if God exists: seek and you will find.
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I get that your belief system interprets skepticism as foolishness, but from my perspective, calling doubt foolish isn’t an argument, it’s a way to avoid having to provide evidence. A brain being 1.5 kilos doesn’t make it incapable of understanding reality; it’s the best tool we have for evaluating claims. If something is true, it should be accessible to reason, not hidden from it.
As for gut feelings and conscience: those are well‑studied psychological and evolutionary traits. Humans evolved instincts and moral intuitions because they helped us survive as social animals. I don’t need to assume a supernatural source to explain them.
You believe those feelings come from God. I see them as natural products of the mind. The difference is that my explanation doesn’t require assuming an invisible being.
And about ‘seek and you will find’: people of every religion say the same thing, and they all ‘find’ different gods. That tells me the process reveals what someone already believes or hopes for, not an external deity. If a god exists and wants to be known, it shouldn’t require a scavenger hunt. It should be obvious.
Again, just my 2cents, I understand that you believe and perhaps think I might be foolish for not believing.
How do you feel about other religions that don't reference the Christian bible, for example, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and Taoism. Is believing in an alternate God different from being an Atheist?
 
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Rich said:
I get that your belief system interprets skepticism as foolishness, but from my perspective, calling doubt foolish isn’t an argument, it’s a way to avoid having to provide evidence. A brain being 1.5 kilos doesn’t make it incapable of understanding reality; it’s the best tool we have for evaluating claims. If something is true, it should be accessible to reason, not hidden from it.
As for gut feelings and conscience: those are well‑studied psychological and evolutionary traits. Humans evolved instincts and moral intuitions because they helped us survive as social animals. I don’t need to assume a supernatural source to explain them.
You believe those feelings come from God. I see them as natural products of the mind. The difference is that my explanation doesn’t require assuming an invisible being.
And about ‘seek and you will find’: people of every religion say the same thing, and they all ‘find’ different gods. That tells me the process reveals what someone already believes or hopes for, not an external deity. If a god exists and wants to be known, it shouldn’t require a scavenger hunt. It should be obvious.
Again, just my 2cents, I understand that you believe and perhaps think I might be foolish for not believing.
How do you feel about other religions that don't reference the Christian bible, for example, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and Taoism. Is believing is an alternate God different from being an Atheist?
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No I say the opposite. It's a Bible text that says that to the natural mind the Gospel is foolishness. Your brain can make sense of the natural world. Not the spiritual. I don't think it's foolish that you don't believe. It's often people who are more intellectual who have a problem with believing. Any 4 year old will believe you if you say God exists.

Other beliefs is something totally different than atheism. Most of the time they were just told that as a kid and believe their mom.
 
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I am down now to one living sister - only one actually - brother {younger} gone and Ma and Pa - I think about them often and often in the twilight times as I sit with the dog on the patio. I would honestly hate have it proved that we would never meet again? - but maybe I'm just a silly old man these days - MY remaining sister and I chat by phone quite frequently about our past family and history - that's sorta very comforting!
 
smiley said:
I am down now to one living sister - only one actually - brother {younger} gone and Ma and Pa - I think about them often and often in the twilight times as I sit with the dog on the patio. I would honestly hate have it proved that we would never meet again? - but maybe I'm just a silly old man these days - MY remaining sister and I chat by phone quite frequently about our past family and history - that's sorta very comforting!
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I imagine them just chilling there. My dad now sees his son. And he has 3 grandkids there and his parents.
 
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smiley said:
I would honestly hate have it proved that we would never meet again?
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I don't hate that part of death myself, but it's understandable that others would. Unfortunately, it does not logically follow that an afterlife exists because you cannot come to terms with hating the finality of death. I do understand that believing in an afterlife would make some people feel better about death, but to me that is an avoidance of reality.

So this leads to the second most important of life's questions. Is avoiding reality a good thing?
 
Rich said:
A brain being 1.5 kilos doesn’t make it incapable of understanding reality; it’s the best tool we have for evaluating claims. If something is true, it should be accessible to reason, not hidden from it.
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Yes but it is. I posted some videos in the beginning of the thread. One guy was dead for 3 days. Maybe the charlatans are to blame that people don't even look at it or investigate it.
 
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