I am an Atheist and always have been.

Since we have some relatively new members here, I will explain why I am an atheist. This will be a long one.

I was raised in the Southern Baptist Church and went to a fundamental Baptist high school. My parents were religious, but they had long since stopped attending church due to the hypocrisy they had experienced. We had Wednesday chapel every week in high school, and a guest preacher would come in and tell us how we were going to Hell if we listened to rock music or, god forbid, went to a dance. There would always be an invocation at the end, complete with sad music and the preacher begging us to "repent" and come forward. I was always one of two people who found this manipulative and never went forward.

Meanwhile, it was always the pastor's son who was in the principle's office for drugs and the principle himself later turned out to be gay, something the church considered a major sin.

I was still a zealot when it came to religion and joined the Church of Christ because my best friend's father was an elder there. I had to be baptized a second time as a teenager because I was told the first time didn't count since I was 9 and didn't realize what it stood for. I started to ask questions about how infirm people could actually be baptized in water to be saved or how other continents in the world who would never hear our gospel were going to Hell. There were never any answers. My good friend took me to my first bar and then ratted me out to his father the elder, so they asked me to leave the church. More hypocrisy. I was done.

It was always difficult for me to turn away from what had been ingrained in me but as time progressed I developed more critical thinking and realized I had never received those answers because religion is self-serving. Even saying that I am an atheist to this day goes against everything I was taught, but I've seen too much to be a "believer".

I don't begrudge anyone their religion. My mother was a Baptist until her dying day, and watched that crook Joel Osteen regularly. Had it not been for her faith I'm sure her final days would have been more difficult. Me, I believe the decisions I've made in life are the reason I am where I am... not someone else's Grand Plan for my life... and I will take that to my grave.
 
One of the main problems with religious people today is that they're actively taking away women's right to choose whether or not they can get an abortion. Their argument is rooted in religion every single time, but they cloak it in some other rationale. It's basically religious people imposing their religion on others, which violates the 1st Amendment. They also eliminated the Constitutional right to abortion, which was a 14th Amendment right.

That kind of thing hardly equates to being able to pray on a ballfield.
 
RambleTamble said:
One of the main problems with religious people today is that they're actively taking away women's right to choose whether or not they can get an abortion. Their argument is rooted in religion every single time, but they cloak it in some other rationale. It's basically religious people imposing their religion on others, which violates the 1st Amendment. They also eliminated the Constitutional right to abortion, which was a 14th Amendment right.

That kind of thing hardly equates to being able to pray on a ballfield.
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That's because there are so many in America. Abortion was made legal here in 1984. I was pregnant together with my cousin, both planned, but then both divorced and she lives in Germany, where it was forbidden that late, so she had it done in Holland.

I won't go protest at an abortion clinic. These kids go to heaven anyway and if their parents hate them, I think they're better off.

Rights rights rights why does that kid have no right? If it otherwise kills the mother I understand, but not if some dumb doctor refuses to sterilize a woman who doesn't want kids. Why don't they fight for that right?That's really her own body. The kid's body isn't.

My ex once helped a girl online who was pregnant and she wanted to keep the baby, but her boyfriend didn't and kicked her in the belly, so she gave in and let it be aborted.

Then I looked on that site where they put messages for their kids. Bye little angel or star. Mommy loves you and had no choice. And a load said: Bye little angel or star, we already had 3 kids and it was not possible another one. What on earth. You get a load of money here from the govt if you get a kid by the way until they're 18. And then they did sterilize you for free after 3 kids.

This is not about the morning after pill and a clump of cells, but a kid that looks like a kid and acts like a kid. They have videos from ultrasounds on youtube from twins playing together, interacting, babies sucking their thumbs. One woman who remembers every day of her life remembers she was in the whomb with her head between her legs and it was dark and she was looking at her feet and it was cozy.

I have had psychological problems because my twin brother died in the whomb with 3 months. But whatever. They kill them anyway and do what they want. Christians have nothing to say here. It's a small minority as is the christian party. It holds 3 seats in the House of Representatives. The big ones have 26.
 
RambleTamble said:
Yeah, the problem with that is, if schools allow nativity scenes or other displays representing something from Christianity, they need to provide equal rights to all other religions, which is fine, and it's actually good for the students to learn about other cultures. I don't think that's what's happening, though. A lot of people want to designate the U.S. to be a "Christian nation" where only Christians are considered to be true Americans. America isn't a theocracy, although there are some who want it to be.
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Why can a christian kid not go to a christian school? I read an argument from a Dutch person who is against christian public schools. She came from a small village with 1 school, a catholic one everyone went to and it was an asshole school and they threatened her with hell. Those don't exist here anymore. My sons went to a catholic primary school. A lot of muslim kids went there too. It was a multi culti school. Later a reformed high school, I was at a meeting for parents. One couple who don't believe said: He was first on another school, but there they do drugs at the schoolyard, so that's why we switched to this one.

So I get it when there is only 1 school and nothing to chose. I wouldn't want my kids to be forced to go to a muslim school either. But then I would say let the village have 3 small schools, so there is something to chose for the kids and parents. Wait. Do they want the 10 commandments in all schools in America? No way. That's discrimination. Imagine the christian school is forced to hang a pic on the wall from Mohammed and texts from the Quran.
 
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Pepper said:
Haven’t seen Amerika spelled that way in a long while. Brings back pleasant memories. Particularly Kafka and Abbie Hoffman.

Fascinating a xian school must teach other religions.

Ive been to holland many times. Always enjoyed myself there.
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For 25 years I taught in a girls' secondary school that was established by an Australian order of nuns. Religious education was a core subject and the teaching was age appropriate and given the same importance as other subjects. In Year 10 (15 year olds) it included examination of "Other Christian denominations and other world religions" including Judaism and Islam.

The students were taken on excursions to listen to faith leaders explain the features of each denomination/religious tradition. School outings included a Salvation Army citadel, various Protestant churches, the Great Synagogue and St Mary's cathedral in the city of Sydney. Speakers were invited to the school to talk about their faith, including Buddhist monks and Islamic women. Non catholic teachers on the staff gave talks about their particular denomination including Baptists, Anglicans (C of E) and Uniting Church. Common features were explored and differences were explained.

The result was that all of us, teachers and students both, learned a lot; misconceptions and suspicions were allayed, and the girls were in a position to understand not only their own faith but the faiths of other Australians as well.

The Australian Constitution is based on the US one with regard to religion. Essentially it forbids the establishment of any one religion as the official state religion. It allows all denominations and sects to flourish equally provided they exhibit certain criteria. This is how harmony is developed in communities.
What is required for a religion to be recognized in Australia?
To be recognized as a religion in Australia, a religious organization must meet certain criteria set by the Attorney-General's Department. These criteria include:
  • The organization must be independent of any other religious body or organization.
  • It must have been established for a minimum of 3 years, with prospects of continuing existence.
  • The organization must have a substantial number of members.
  • If the organization has multiple congregations, it must meet additional criteria to ensure its recognition. The process involves an application to the department, which assesses the application and makes a recommendation to the Attorney-General. The Attorney-General then decides whether to ask the Governor-General to declare the organization as a recognized denomination under Section 26 of the Marriage Act 1961.
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It is important to note that the recognition of a religion is purely for the purposes of the Marriage Act and does not imply government endorsement or acknowledgment of the organization's standing in the community.
 
The First Amendment does not allow burning witches. I know that's an extreme example, but religions have limitations on how far they can impose their doctrine on others. I believe it would have been in my best interests if my grandmother would not have had the freedom to terrify me as a child with her religious babble, even though it was part of her religious beliefs, and which she as a loving grandmother, believed was good for me. It was left to my parents to intercept her preaching. Just because what someone has is so damned good for themselves, doesn't give them the right to force it on others. 150 years ago the South used Christianity to justify slavery.

Granted as we get closer and closer to what is acceptable behavior, the line is less clear, but at some point foisting religious beliefs on others becomes just plain wrong. It's hard for some Christians to see that. Hard for some Muslims too.
 
C50 said:
I disagree, I am a true atheist as I believe there is no god, yet I pray daily. I am not necessarily praying to a god, more just just acknowledging my mistakes and the wrong I've done but more importantly praying is a way of expressing my gratitude for the good in my life.
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I call that having a meeting with myself. But it's mostly for calling myself on my own bullshit. I don't do any of that expressing gratitude stuff.
 
Sunkist said:
However- First Amendment 'rights' are not absolute..
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Correct. I did not post absolutes. The focus of my post was on court interpretation of those rights.

"Like all the freedoms guaranteed by the First Amendment, religious freedom is not absolute. The government maintains the right to limit religious exercise under certain circumstances. The boundaries of religious freedom can be complicated and frequently change with the courts."
Source - > FREEDOMFORUM.ORG
 
It is often difficult to prove that any religion works for the benefits and wellbeing of those it is offered to or intended for. It is often similar to the presentations of extremely skillfull and convincing magicians???
 
I always begin my day at sunrise, outside if I can, listening to the sounds of nature, watching the awakening of the wildlife
around me until I am calm, relaxed and then give prayers of gratitude for all that around me and the blessings in my life.
Never a prayer for help or those types of things, just for being here. It makes my day better, me stronger and more open
minded. It's not painful, in fact it's helpful in many ways. It also gives me the strength to know if battles come my way which
are worth standing up to or to be considerate of. That is simply my choice. I am not telling others they should do it.
 
I'm often fascinated by the quite long list of 'differing religions' and their practices around the globe; claimed cures and collection of alms for who knows who or what?? Their origins when researched are often quite fascinating whilst not proven solid cast iron true?? Many of us simple need an explanation; an answer for why we are here at all - not just on the only inhabitated planet we know but indeed in the much larger and wider universe??
 
JustDave said:
The First Amendment does not allow burning witches. I know that's an extreme example, but religions have limitations on how far they can impose their doctrine on others. I believe it would have been in my best interests if my grandmother would not have had the freedom to terrify me as a child with her religious babble, even though it was part of her religious beliefs, and which she as a loving grandmother, believed was good for me. It was left to my parents to intercept her preaching. Just because what someone has is so damned good for themselves, doesn't give them the right to force it on others. 150 years ago the South used Christianity to justify slavery.

Granted as we get closer and closer to what is acceptable behavior, the line is less clear, but at some point foisting religious beliefs on others becomes just plain wrong. It's hard for some Christians to see that. Hard for some Muslims too.
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Yes that should be forbidden because it's child abuse.

My ex talked to adults about hell with our small kids present. Our eldest who was around 5 got very fearful and my 2nd ex, who was atheist, said: Are you guys insane? What do you teach that kid?

He had seen a kids movie in which they said you have to believe to go to heaven and he got totally upset because he didn't believe that he would get a dog or something. He took it very literal. So I could assure him it was fine. Goodness. He said to his 3 year old brother: You have to convert now!! Otherwise you go to hell! No no he's fine. My goodness.

TV programs with violence are forbidden for kids, so why not that kind of talk. Corrie ten Boom, a Dutch evangelist from long ago, said that her dad always skipped all the bad parts from the Bible when he read the Bible to them when they were kids. It was all sweet. Later she read it herself and was shocked.
 
smiley said:
It is often difficult to prove that any religion works for the benefits and wellbeing of those it is offered to or intended for. It is often similar to the presentations of extremely skillfull and convincing magicians???
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That's easy to say if you don't know these people and unfortunately there are also liars. I used to believe everything, but there are those who do it for money or something. One pastor just said when someone had a testimony that they got healed: It's not that I don't believe you, but go to the doctor and get checked, because I don't want the paper on my back again. Someone had told him that blind guys were healed in Myanmar and he just believed it and said it in a preaching, but people checked and it was a lie and then he got the Newspaper people on his back who called him a liar.
 
seadoug said:
Since we have some relatively new members here, I will explain why I am an atheist. This will be a long one.

I was raised in the Southern Baptist Church and went to a fundamental Baptist high school. My parents were religious, but they had long since stopped attending church due to the hypocrisy they had experienced. We had Wednesday chapel every week in high school, and a guest preacher would come in and tell us how we were going to Hell if we listened to rock music or, god forbid, went to a dance. There would always be an invocation at the end, complete with sad music and the preacher begging us to "repent" and come forward. I was always one of two people who found this manipulative and never went forward.

Meanwhile, it was always the pastor's son who was in the principle's office for drugs and the principle himself later turned out to be gay, something the church considered a major sin.

I was still a zealot when it came to religion and joined the Church of Christ because my best friend's father was an elder there. I had to be baptized a second time as a teenager because I was told the first time didn't count since I was 9 and didn't realize what it stood for. I started to ask questions about how infirm people could actually be baptized in water to be saved or how other continents in the world who would never hear our gospel were going to Hell. There were never any answers. My good friend took me to my first bar and then ratted me out to his father the elder, so they asked me to leave the church. More hypocrisy. I was done.

It was always difficult for me to turn away from what had been ingrained in me but as time progressed I developed more critical thinking and realized I had never received those answers because religion is self-serving. Even saying that I am an atheist to this day goes against everything I was taught, but I've seen too much to be a "believer".

I don't begrudge anyone their religion. My mother was a Baptist until her dying day, and watched that crook Joel Osteen regularly. Had it not been for her faith I'm sure her final days would have been more difficult. Me, I believe the decisions I've made in life are the reason I am where I am... not someone else's Grand Plan for my life... and I will take that to my grave.
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I'm new and I'd like to respond to this and I can agree with much of it and I'm to each their own beliefs.

I won't go into childhood and all but suffice it to say I saw a lot of hypocrisy in church as well, not by all but by some. Even so, when I attended, despite the hypocrisy I'd feel a peace and uplift I felt came from God.

I don't attend church any longer, unless a wedding or something invited to, but I truly believe just on my own that there is something higher than us, Someone perhaps, nothing else makes much sense to me with all I've seen in life.

I do get the critical thinking as well. I question God. I say he blessed me with a brain that makes me not able to make sense of some things. Or question them.... I also allow for though mankind has tried to interpret scriptures and not all have done it the same. And that things have been reinterpreted by mankind too in some religions over time. And mankind is imperfect or can have their own agendas too...

I do believe in something higher but I also realize if we weren't taught what we were maybe taught as children in whatever belief or lack of it we wouldn't believe or what about people that were raised thinking there was no God or was but that he was a strict one and not a forgiving one, etc... Or if we sinned... And so on. Are people that weren't taught to believe going to be saved just as you sort of said too, from maybe other countries who never learned such things...

I wasn't raised in anything so strict in my era like Southern Baptist or Catholic, but Lutheran instead. But it is all kind of what we are born into or taught right? Until we get to be adults and make our own choices and think more on important things...

None of us know imo, we can't know but I can't disbelieve there is something bigger than us as at my age I feel I've seen to much evidence that there is. I don't believe for a moment that people I knew every day of my life like my dad that I'll never see again. Part of that of course is a wish but that's not all of my reason for believing that. It's also that nothing else makes much sense to me... It is believing in something we don't know all the answers to, but I'll take it.

I've had had a lot of loss and have felt a lot of things I'm not going to go into. And despite the hypocrisy there is a peace that comes to me while in a church, especially on Easter or Christmas, that comes from somewhere, even when I entered it not feeling that way... It comes from as one could describe it, above. From above.

I've experienced things too after losses and burials. It can be the worst weather and at that moment, the skies clear... It's hard to put into words.

I choose to believe and yet I do question it. I believe in a good God though so long as we try our best to be good and decent people. I don't go by some of the strict thing of some religions as I don't believe a child that was never baptized goes to hel* etc.

I believe in something after death. If it's false then I guess I'll never know any different anyhow. It gives me hope though, gets me through loss and gives me someone to talk to, even question, and pray in my head to.

But I also understand that some don't believe. It's just like in some religions they do believe in God, but not Jesus. I don't know what's true for sure, none of us do. Some try to claim they "know". But no one does.

I have no issues with how you feel and I get it. And I am a newer member. I'm fine with anyone's opinions on anything so long as none of us force our own on others.

Today I'm alone on Easter and I'm sad over it. I do have family but could not travel. But it matters to me more than Christmas even.

And I wish everyone a very Happy Easter. Whatever their beliefs.
 
smiley said:
It is often difficult to prove that any religion works for the benefits and wellbeing of those it is offered to or intended for. It is often similar to the presentations of extremely skillfull and convincing magicians???
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I don't agree with that. Religion provides a sense of community for it's members, it explains things we don't have answers to, it can alleviate existential anxiety... And many churches do good in the world.

In other words, not all religious practices are bad.
 
Rider77 said:
Call me a cynic but I think those who need to tell the world that they are Athiests are just asking for attention and moreover very insecure persons.
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Making a post once is not telling the world. Be glad you didn't meet me when I didn't believe as a kid. I was also a vegetarian hahahahaha. I tried to convert everyone to atheism and vegetarianism. Kids in school, friends: Do you believe in God? Most said: Yes or well I do believe that there's something. Haha. That is stupid! Only 2 friends also didn't believe at all. One is Jewish. I saw her at a reunion. She's now Jewish orthodox. When she heard I became christian she said: That doesn't surprise me at all. Hey at least I wasn't uninterested. If someone is this annoying to me, I just think: Yeah pay back time. I deserve it. These poor kids in school.
 
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