Bretrick
Well-known Member
- Location
- Perth Western Australia
Yes, everyone deserves a chance.
I Believe In Fairness
- Thread starter Bretrick
- Start date
oscash
Senior Member
- Location
- Sydney - Australia
My son, who hated school, wanted to leave, he was only 16 years old. I told him if he was serious, I would let him go for an interview. It was for an apprentice Painter and Decorator. He got all of his certificates for ballroom dancing, his certificates for playing in competitions for brass instruments and I told him to wear a collar and tie and show respect to the man who had the painting business. Well, he came home with a big smile on his face as he got the job. His Boss told me he was so impressed with him during the interview. I used to drive him at 6 o'clock in the morning until he got his driver's licence to get to his jobs, and that paid off in the end. He is now a very successful tradesman.
Bretrick
Well-known Member
- Location
- Perth Western Australia
It is great when young people succeed in getting that illusive job.
Makes them very proud and their self esteem receives a huge boost.
I'm sure he was very appreciative of the advice you gave him.
Sippican
Member
- Location
- South Coast Massachusetts
I was told I needed to hire based on a points scale.
Points increased if I hired a minority, black, women, over 50.
As managers, we had to make a certain threshold annually in our hires or we would be disciplined.
Thats the world we live in these days, its not qualifications, but gender, race, age. Welcome to Socialism.
Points increased if I hired a minority, black, women, over 50.
As managers, we had to make a certain threshold annually in our hires or we would be disciplined.
Thats the world we live in these days, its not qualifications, but gender, race, age. Welcome to Socialism.
jimintoronto
Well-known Member
I have to wonder how YOU would feel if YOU were the black woman, or the man with the physical handicap, who was trying to be hired ??? I bet your views about "socialism " would change, real quick. Your statement just drips with entitlement issues. JimB.
Judycat
Well-known Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Where I live the autocrats want people with the right name. Haha.
Sippican
Member
- Location
- South Coast Massachusetts
Well 'Jim from Toronto' you would know about Socialism better than anyone.
Did I say that I 'bought into' the notion of points for hires?...no.
Did I say I like it? no.
I suspect that any of the protected classes would love that they are at the top of the hiring lists.
Sorry, I won't play into those derogatory baiting comments.
I come from a very poor background growing, never got past 8th grade for a formal education.
If you read some of my past posts, you will see I'm a proponent of helping homeless and needy people. Not that I want to boast about that, but to show I am not from an 'entitled' background.
You are barking up the wrong tree Jimmy.
Yes, so true. I'm not sure what exactly I was watching recently, probably a YouTube video, and it was talking about how studies have shown that when identical resumes are used and only the name is changed, that minorities and women are discriminated against. The talk was about how everyone is prone to having biases and showing preferences, and that the best way to make things fair is to have steps to make things anonymous for gender,race,age etc.
A few years ago I listened to a lecture that said that there was an experiment of having an interviewer momentarily requested to hold a stranger's warm cup of coffee or an iced drink on an elevator (on the way to the interview room), and that subsequently it was found that if the interviewer had held the warm cup of coffee they were more likely to describe the person they interviewed as 'warm'. Totally crazy, right? The experiment was showing that we have many influences that we are not consciously aware of.
jimintoronto
Well-known Member
SO, how does some one who "never got past the eighth grade " become a Manager, who interviewed and hired people ? Some how that doesn't add up. By the way, socialism is alive and well in your State. The classic definition is......Something that EVERYONE pays for, that EVERYONE uses, like roads, libraries, schools, parks, Police services, and god forbid, support for the poor and street lights. JimB.
Packerjohn
Packerjohn
- Location
- Canada
Sorry I read so much grumbling in the media about Mr. Musk over the last 6 month, I thought that there really must be something awful wrong and bad about him. Didn't know he is really one hack of a wonderful person; a hero of our modern age.
Guess I'm never to old to learn. Thanks for the free education.
Sippican
Member
- Location
- South Coast Massachusetts
Not only a manager, but a senior advisor to the 'C' suite. My job was to meet with senior executives and advise them on company risk mitigation and strategies throughout their organizations. Not only domestically, but globally. Washington DC, Chicago, Phoenix, London, Ireland, Paris, Bermuda, India, Sydney and many others I've forgotten, even in Toronto on a government project. I found a unique niche and learned the 'heck' out if it. I am very fortunate that I could navigate the business world so effectively. I didn't do it for the money, but it was the only way businesses keep score so I did very well for myself.
Oh, I did get a GED. When I was in the military my captain called me in one day and asked why I never graduated high school. I didn't have a good answer at 20. He asked if I would continue my education if I got my GED. I said 'yes'. Two weeks later he handed me a GED from a high school I never stepped foot in. That is when I learned the difference between a boss and a manager. He cared about my situation and helped me.
Other battalion captains just barked out orders. Because that captain cared about me, I would follow that man into war any day of the week, no questions asked.
Oh, and as far as interviewing people? I would hire and fire PHD's many times in my career. For me, college wasn't an option. I didn't let schooling get in the way of my education. There are many things schools can't teach someone.
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Sippican
Member
- Location
- South Coast Massachusetts
In real life, I didn't find that at all. Women and minorities were given preferential treatment. I suspect much of it is fabricated to ensure the 'victim' status is maintained to further propagate the division along lines of gender, race, ethnicity, etc.
Experiments are fine, but they are simulations trying to emulate the real world. In my opinion, in academia there is a bias to promote victimhood.
PeppermintPatty
š¢. š³. š¢
- Location
- Canada
This is interesting. What brass instruments did your son play? Did your son ever go back to school to continue his education?
Sippican
Member
- Location
- South Coast Massachusetts
Rejection just means that wasn't God plan for you. Can't take it personal, its just business.
Supernatural
Senior Member
What you've said @Bretrick and @hollydolly as well. "No experience, no jobs, sorry you can't work here..."
I took on a company's boss who happened to have come through the ranks after starting with his company as a coffee/mail delivery boy. Told him point blank to his face that he'd no experience BUT that someone gave him a chance and look where you are now, right? If it's your attitude now, sorry but I'm not interested to work for your company or any others with the same principles. Someday, it'll all fall apart and you'll be to blame...
I left and never looked back. One day I was reading the paper, about 6 months after the interview and finally employed in a good job with the government. An employee he'd hired who had experience, cleaned out a lot of money which was laundered and disappeared along with several other employees. I felt Karma had taken place.
Back to more recent situation, I'd been out of the market for a while taking care of our children. As they were at school for a good part of the day, I was contemplating part-time work. Due to where the work was concentrated, I'd have to travel about an hour each way.
Therefore, when I went to the secretarial pool, I specified my schedule as well as experience, languages spoken/written, et al. My hours were objected to right off the bat. I could work from 10am until 2pm Monday through Friday. That was unacceptable but they never explained.
Kids began school at 9am, I had to drive them to school, then I'd leave for work. Due to traffic, the one hour to get to work for 10am. Finally, I had to pick up Munchkins from school at 3pm. Hence the need to leave at two pm. Hubby was working on contracts in NI at the time, so he wasn't home to help out with our kids.
When I asked why these were refused with over 20 years of experience and letters to prove, I was unceremoniously told to come back when they'd be out of school or got jobs and get married...
Well, son died at 26 a couple of months after graduating from College (2016, died 2017) and daughter has graduated from university is still single, works for Avon Cosmetics since 2012. So, I'm still unavailable accordingly for their part-time hours and now it's age discrimination I've seen lurking its ugly head.
ElCastor
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern CA
Experience? Here is a method that worked for me. First a 4 year college degree is a favorable attribute for most employers. After graduation the draft was hanging over my head, so I decided to join and get it out of the way. Best thing I ever did - other than marrying my wife. The degree got me into officer training, and the Navy gifted me with a tour of the world, a real treat. After five great years I was out with a resume that included college and supervision of 60 men. With that behind me getting a job was a cinch. A product of planning? Not really, but if I had to do it all over again I would not hesitate.
Knight
Well-known Member
Quote
"They were looking to employ 8 people. There were 12 applicants including myself.
One guy came along with a folder full of his previous applications and I am not lying when I say it had to be at least 6 inches thick."
How about looking at this from an employers perspective. The employers wants the best they can get to fill positions. 4 didn't get a job, one being a man with a folder full of rejections.
Bretrick offers this.
Quote
"The fellow with the folder spoke well, seemed well adjusted and had plenty to offer."
But was what was offered what the company needed?
I have no way of knowing but do understand the logic of why he was not hired. The job applicant wasn't smart enough to just participate in the interview without a folder full of rejections.
The interview was open, the applicant had the opportunity to impress but along with 3 others didn't.
He and 3 others had a chance. He blew it by presenting himself as unable to be hired at various other places.
I believe in fairness also. Fair to a company looking to get the best for the wages they will be paying seems fair to me.
"They were looking to employ 8 people. There were 12 applicants including myself.
One guy came along with a folder full of his previous applications and I am not lying when I say it had to be at least 6 inches thick."
How about looking at this from an employers perspective. The employers wants the best they can get to fill positions. 4 didn't get a job, one being a man with a folder full of rejections.
Bretrick offers this.
Quote
"The fellow with the folder spoke well, seemed well adjusted and had plenty to offer."
But was what was offered what the company needed?
I have no way of knowing but do understand the logic of why he was not hired. The job applicant wasn't smart enough to just participate in the interview without a folder full of rejections.
The interview was open, the applicant had the opportunity to impress but along with 3 others didn't.
He and 3 others had a chance. He blew it by presenting himself as unable to be hired at various other places.
I believe in fairness also. Fair to a company looking to get the best for the wages they will be paying seems fair to me.
oscash
Senior Member
- Location
- Sydney - Australia
Hi PeppermintPatty. No, he never went back to school to continue his education as he had to do to a 3 year Technical College course to learn the basics of his trade. He and his older brother both played brass instruments, he played the Tenor Horn and the other played the Euphonium. The older son took up music professionally and has travelled the world .
PeppermintPatty
š¢. š³. š¢
- Location
- Canada
Well doing a 3 year course in technical college is going back to school. In other words he did continue his education. Good for him.
Did the other brother play in a band or have his own band? What type of venues did he play in? Travelling the world as a professional musician , he must be really good.
Gaer
"Angel whisperer"
- Location
- New Mexico U.S.A.
"Fair" is an annual agricultural exhibition.
palides2021
Well-known Member
- Location
- MidAtlantic, USA
I've never participated in a group interview, so I never had a chance to compare myself to other applicants during such a meeting. If I were hiring, though, I also would be worried about an applicant bringing in a folder with rejections. That shows that the applicant isn't too bright (applicants usually show their strengths, not their weaknesses), and if that's the case, the applicant would probably not help the company move forward but probably whine all the time for being left out or mistreated (if they whined about their previous applications). I may be wrong. Also, the applicant might have a mental issue (Asperger's?) if he doesn't realize that his honesty in this case was inappropriate. I'm not a psychologist but that's the thought that occurred to me. Yes, I also feel sad for him, but he seems to be persistent in order to have accumulated such a large folder, so it looks like he won't stop applying in the future, and his persistence might pay off one day, if that is any consolation.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I have vivid memories of two interviews at which I was present.
The first was for the position of home science teacher at a Catholic girls' junior high school. I was the vice principal and the principal was a nun. The two of us were interviewing applicants and a couple of them were Seventh Day Adventists. I thought they might be good in the position because I knew that nutrition was a big part of that particular group. However, both women lacked lustre. They were as sparkling as suet pudding and I could not imagine them doing well with our rather rambunctious students.
Then in came a young man who had travelled all the way from Queensland to Sydney for the interview. He was quite the picture, and he was as camp as a row of tents, but when he talked about teaching he sounded so passionate that as soon as the interview was over, the nun turned to me and asked what I thought. I replied that I thought it had to be him. She agreed and we left the room and as he was waiting for a lift at the front of the school she told him that he was being offered the position. He turned out to be an inspired educationalist.
A similar thing happened when I was on a panel of three interviewing for the position of Director for the long day care centre at my church. There were only two applicants. The first was a woman in her fifties who was the preferred candidate of one member of the panel who represented the oversight committee of Synod. The other was a complete surprise to us. She was a young woman with the same passion I had seen in the male home science teacher. She was very inspiring, but she was only the same height as the preschoolers at the centre.
It was a 2 to 1 decision in her favour and she turned out to be a wonderful asset for the childcare centre.
I know that large organisations need to have procedures to follow for the sake of fairness and inclusivity but sometimes it pays off to hire the unlikely choice. It is also prudent to have a probationary period before making them permanent members of staff.
The first was for the position of home science teacher at a Catholic girls' junior high school. I was the vice principal and the principal was a nun. The two of us were interviewing applicants and a couple of them were Seventh Day Adventists. I thought they might be good in the position because I knew that nutrition was a big part of that particular group. However, both women lacked lustre. They were as sparkling as suet pudding and I could not imagine them doing well with our rather rambunctious students.
Then in came a young man who had travelled all the way from Queensland to Sydney for the interview. He was quite the picture, and he was as camp as a row of tents, but when he talked about teaching he sounded so passionate that as soon as the interview was over, the nun turned to me and asked what I thought. I replied that I thought it had to be him. She agreed and we left the room and as he was waiting for a lift at the front of the school she told him that he was being offered the position. He turned out to be an inspired educationalist.
A similar thing happened when I was on a panel of three interviewing for the position of Director for the long day care centre at my church. There were only two applicants. The first was a woman in her fifties who was the preferred candidate of one member of the panel who represented the oversight committee of Synod. The other was a complete surprise to us. She was a young woman with the same passion I had seen in the male home science teacher. She was very inspiring, but she was only the same height as the preschoolers at the centre.
It was a 2 to 1 decision in her favour and she turned out to be a wonderful asset for the childcare centre.
I know that large organisations need to have procedures to follow for the sake of fairness and inclusivity but sometimes it pays off to hire the unlikely choice. It is also prudent to have a probationary period before making them permanent members of staff.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
In Australia we talk about a "fair go". My father used to say that all he wanted in life was "a fair go and a bit of peace and quiet". I'm a big believer in everyone getting a fair go. It is something that underpins an egalitarian society.
oscash
Senior Member
- Location
- Sydney - Australia