I don't understand? Why do young women love bad guys?

Several reasons.
Some women have low self esteem & feel lucky to have any man.
Some women have trashy men in their families & desire what they're used to.
Some ignorant women confuse "Trashy" with "Macho."
 

In my 20s, I hung out with a guy that got and had more women than anyone I have known. He was also a psychopath, self indulging, and just saw women as sexual objects, which he openly admitted, even to the women he was with. He prided himself on his ability to manipulate people, men and women, and he was good at it, and he could manipulate me. I'd never know him to be in relationship that lasted more than a week. He was the worst "catch" imaginable. He also bragged about his "bad boy" status earned in the past as a car thief delivering cars to chop shops and said he might decide to return to crime someday. Yet women of all ages readily made themselves available to him. Not all of them did, of course. I've seen women shut him down in as quickly 5 minutes. And even with those who didn't, I don't think any of them felt betrayed. I'm pretty sure they knew what they were doing.

Women aren't always looking for a long term partner, and maybe some just want excitement. It may explain why this "bad boy" thing happens more with young women. But it can happen at any age.

I worry that I may offend some just by posting this, but it is just an observation of one of the more unusual persons I've known. This is like the announcement at the beginning of a DVD; "The following interviews and commentary are not endorsed by and do not represent Warner Brothers or any of it's affiliates."
 
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Magna-Carta said:
In the past, as I saw it at the time, I seemed to have been attracted to some really intelligent and complex minded woman. Who then turned out to have some really complex personality issues, and later diagnosed with such.

I feel I can now spot them I mile off, and then I avoid them as much as possible, often just for my own sanity.
Click to expand...

It seems that no one wanted to explore this, other than being dismissive & sarcastic towards it. No context was explored, yet I still stand by it.

It’s clearly important to approach the topic with sensitivity and empathy towards those who may have personality disorders. While it can be difficult to navigate relationships with individuals who have personality disorders, it is important to remember that these individuals are still deserving of “compassion and understanding”. Sometimes then, here is where these things start to get complicated when trying to apply genuine compassion within a loving relationship.

As mentioned, I’m generally attracted to complex minds, but I suppose we are all complex in our own way. In the context of my original post, I was in a loving five year relationship with someone who at the end of the relationship was diagnosed with Munchausen Syndrome. But part way through the relationship it started to go beyond that. Pseudologia Fantastica springs to mind. Imagine being part of and living inside someone else’s fantasy world, and then later having very little sense of truth vs the complex yet endearing lies. Not just about medical matter within Munchausen Syndrome, but with everything else. Lies and stories that are so multifaceted that’s its impossible to get your head around, regardless of how much time you spend trying to figure it all out, and I’m the analytical one. And then being partly convinced by your ill partner that it is you with the personality disorder, because you are being accused of doing things and saying things that you can’t remember. At what point will an ill partner start affecting your own mental health?

When I ended that relationship, the real fun started. All hell broke loose along with suicide threats and fake pregnancies, and the police, but that’s another story – I could write a book about it all. Prior to this and during the relationship there was a real pregnancy. My child, apparently, but one that she planned for without my say so. The one that she later aborted without me initially knowing.

It still seemed to be attracted, fascinated perhaps, with what I thought at the time were women with complex minds. My next relationship was someone who was then diagnosed with Bipolar. That one ended too.

After that I was in a relationship with someone else, who during our four year relationship was diagnosed with Bipolar. After she tried to kill herself he was diagnosed with PTSD. Then 6 months later on her second suicide attempt she was diagnosed with BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Or has it’s probably better called in the UK, EUPD, Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder. It would have been very wrong of me to have diagnosed my own partner, but towards the end of the relationship, through my own research, it became apparent to me what her illness was, even before the official diagnosis.

She used to put the palm of her hand in the centre of my chest and say to me, “You have a kind heart”. I would say to here that it, “feels as though you are reaching into my chest, pulling out my heart and squeezing it in front of my face, and smiling as the bright red blood runs down your arm”. She would look at me with a quizzical expression on her face. There was an occasion when she said something to me, something that I will never repeat, that made me feel like dropping to the floor and clawing myself along the floor and out through the front door on my tummy. Interestingly, when she ended the relationship, it felt as though someone had died. There is another book I could write.

I have a good friend who has a personality disorder. He used to work with me. Late one evening he walked out of work and attempted to jump off a bridge. Only being stopped by a couple who got out of their car and pulled him back. He’s left the area now, but I will be visiting him and his wife next month.

One of my nieces, who are also one of my goddaughters, was diagnosed with EUPD when she was 18. From my own experiences I had already figured this out. I used to have long deep conversations with her about it. I still adore her.

As for my original post, specifically regards people who aren’t already friends and others I already have a connection with, I still protect my own sanity.
 
Magna-Carta said:
It seems that no one wanted to explore this, other than being dismissive & sarcastic towards it. No context was explored, yet I still stand by it.

It’s clearly important to approach the topic with sensitivity and empathy towards those who may have personality disorders. While it can be difficult to navigate relationships with individuals who have personality disorders, it is important to remember that these individuals are still deserving of “compassion and understanding”. Sometimes then, here is where these things start to get complicated when trying to apply genuine compassion within a loving relationship.

As mentioned, I’m generally attracted to complex minds, but I suppose we are all complex in our own way. In the context of my original post, I was in a loving five year relationship with someone who at the end of the relationship was diagnosed with Munchausen Syndrome. But part way through the relationship it started to go beyond that. Pseudologia Fantastica springs to mind. Imagine being part of and living inside someone else’s fantasy world, and then later having very little sense of truth vs the complex yet endearing lies. Not just about medical matter within Munchausen Syndrome, but with everything else. Lies and stories that are so multifaceted that’s its impossible to get your head around, regardless of how much time you spend trying to figure it all out, and I’m the analytical one. And then being partly convinced by your ill partner that it is you with the personality disorder, because you are being accused of doing things and saying things that you can’t remember. At what point will an ill partner start affecting your own mental health?

When I ended that relationship, the real fun started. All hell broke loose along with suicide threats and fake pregnancies, and the police, but that’s another story – I could write a book about it all. Prior to this and during the relationship there was a real pregnancy. My child, apparently, but one that she planned for without my say so. The one that she later aborted without me initially knowing.

It still seemed to be attracted, fascinated perhaps, with what I thought at the time were women with complex minds. My next relationship was someone who was then diagnosed with Bipolar. That one ended too.

After that I was in a relationship with someone else, who during our four year relationship was diagnosed with Bipolar. After she tried to kill herself he was diagnosed with PTSD. Then 6 months later on her second suicide attempt she was diagnosed with BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Or has it’s probably better called in the UK, EUPD, Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder. It would have been very wrong of me to have diagnosed my own partner, but towards the end of the relationship, through my own research, it became apparent to me what her illness was, even before the official diagnosis.

She used to put the palm of her hand in the centre of my chest and say to me, “You have a kind heart”. I would say to here that it, “feels as though you are reaching into my chest, pulling out my heart and squeezing it in front of my face, and smiling as the bright red blood runs down your arm”. She would look at me with a quizzical expression on her face. There was an occasion when she said something to me, something that I will never repeat, that made me feel like dropping to the floor and clawing myself along the floor and out through the front door on my tummy. Interestingly, when she ended the relationship, it felt as though someone had died. There is another book I could write.

I have a good friend who has a personality disorder. He used to work with me. Late one evening he walked out of work and attempted to jump off a bridge. Only being stopped by a couple who got out of their car and pulled him back. He’s left the area now, but I will be visiting him and his wife next month.

One of my nieces, who are also one of my goddaughters, was diagnosed with EUPD when she was 18. From my own experiences I had already figured this out. I used to have long deep conversations with her about it. I still adore her.

As for my original post, specifically regards people who aren’t already friends and others I already have a connection with, I still protect my own sanity.
Click to expand...
@Magna-Carta, I can appreciate your attempt to change the picture of yourself you've created (perhaps inadvertently) with your original post, which was in fact insensitive and lacking compassion or even self-awareness as you didn't at that time seem to realize how obtuse your words made you seem. And how such talk only serves to add to the harmful and unfair stigma still surrounding mental illness.

I agree with you in that it is wrong to diagnose your partner with a mental illness. Whether you end up being correct is irrelevant; it's an unhelpful and discriminatory practice.

While I understand you are trying to present a more clear picture of why you made such an unsympathetic statement in the first place, it is unnecessary, and unhelpful overall, to publicly relay details of the actions and behaviors of people suffering from mental illness you have been/or feel harmed by.

There is enough of this sort of talk in the media and on the street; if you truly feel it is important to approach this topic with sensitivity then do that.

It's not that I don't have sympathy for you in your past struggles because I do; it's only that I think they are more appropriately addressed in a therapeutic setting (at least in such detail) rather than a public form.

If, as you mentioned, you do indeed stand by your first post, I stand by my response to it.
 
CallMeKate said:
Just popping in to say that some of the nicest guys I've known have been bikers. And I hear mafia bosses are very much into taking care of family. Well, unless someone rats, but that's a whole other thread. ;) Oh, and working in the music industry years ago, I can say that drug besotted or not, musicians can be absolute temperamental divas... male and female alike.
Click to expand...
I should write, every time I express an opinion on anything: "Of course, there are exceptions to every rule!" I should make that my signature!
JustDave said:
I don't think that urge is part of the majority, and it can start at a young age. If I'm wrong and it is closer to a universal trait, it is probably repressed or ignored. It's true for both male and female I think.

My Ex had a name for those romance novels with a cover of a muscular peasant stock embracing a woman with a top that is about to be lost to the throes of passion. She called them "bodice rippers." I think she had picked that term up from somewhere else. I never caught her reading a bodice ripper, although she seem to know what they were about.
Click to expand...
Someone probably answered already, but Bodice Rippers usually referred to romances taking place at the end of the nineteenth century! Regency era! I think!
 
Medusa said:
@Magna-Carta, I can appreciate your attempt to change the picture of yourself you've created (perhaps inadvertently) with your original post, which was in fact insensitive and lacking compassion or even self-awareness as you didn't at that time seem to realize how obtuse your words made you seem. And how such talk only serves to add to the harmful and unfair stigma still surrounding mental illness.

I agree with you in that it is wrong to diagnose your partner with a mental illness. Whether you end up being correct is irrelevant; it's an unhelpful and discriminatory practice.

While I understand you are trying to present a more clear picture of why you made such an unsympathetic statement in the first place, it is unnecessary, and unhelpful overall, to publicly relay details of the actions and behaviors of people suffering from mental illness you have been/or feel harmed by.

There is enough of this sort of talk in the media and on the street; if you truly feel it is important to approach this topic with sensitivity then do that.

It's not that I don't have sympathy for you in your past struggles because I do; it's only that I think they are more appropriately addressed in a therapeutic setting (at least in such detail) rather than a public form.

If, as you mentioned, you do indeed stand by your first post, I stand by my response to it.
Click to expand...

There was no attempt to change the picture of myself, the picture is what it is, and everyone’s sees and interprets a picture differently, and therefore forms their own opinion of it. Some people will see a picture in different ways at different times, and have a changing opinion of it.

We all see a picture of ourselves differently to how others see it. Not to diminish anything you have said -- I can see how some might have seen it as obtuse, but again that’s their own opinion, and yours. At no point was there any doubt in my mind that you would not stand by your response to my earlier post, and there was and is no attempt of my part to try and change it, which would be wrong in itself.

That being said, I think it's important to be true to ourselves and present ourselves authentically, while also being mindful of how others may interpret our presentation. We can't control how others see us, but we can strive to understand and respect their perspectives. To open one’s mind & try to see that perspective, regardless of how clumsy it might have seen to some.

At the end of the day, everyone's opinion of us is subjective and ultimately out of our control. What's most important is that we stay true to our own values and beliefs, while also being open to feedback and willing to learn and grow from our interactions with others.

Thank you now for the specifics you put, something that you didn’t do when I originally asked.
 
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Old Salt said:
Someone probably answered already, but Bodice Rippers usually referred to romances taking place at the end of the nineteenth century! Regency era! I think!
Click to expand...
I was never clear on that, but the paperback covers I picture in my mind all seem to be from that time period.
 
Old Salt said:
I should write, every time I express an opinion on anything: "Of course, there are exceptions to every rule!" I should make that my signature!

Someone probably answered already, but Bodice Rippers usually referred to romances taking place at the end of the nineteenth century! Regency era! I think!
Click to expand...
Oops, I have no idea how two responses ended up in the same post! Must be still half asleep!
 
Magna-Carta said:
There was no attempt to change the picture of myself, the picture is what it is, and everyone’s sees and interprets a picture differently, and therefore forms their own opinion of it. Some people will see a picture in different ways at different times, and have a changing opinion it.

We all see a picture of ourselves differently to how others see it. Not to diminish anything you have said -- I can see how some might have seen it as obtuse, but again that’s their own opinion, and yours. At no point was there any doubt in my mind that you would not stand by your response to my earlier post, and there was and is no attempt of my part to try and change it, which would be wrong in itself.

That being said, I think it's important to be true to ourselves and present ourselves authentically, while also being mindful of how others may interpret our presentation. We can't control how others see us, but we can strive to understand and respect their perspectives. To open one’s mind & try to see that perspective, regardless of how clumsy it might have seen to some.

At the end of the day, everyone's opinion of us is subjective and ultimately out of our control. What's most important is that we stay true to our own values and beliefs, while also being open to feedback and willing to learn and grow from our interactions with others.

Thank you now for the specifics you put, something that you didn’t do when I originally asked.
Click to expand...
I think at this point further comment from me is unnecessary as I have made my position clear and I have no more to add to this discussion. Wishing you well; see you in other threads.
 
CallMeKate said:
Just popping in to say that some of the nicest guys I've known have been bikers. And I hear mafia bosses are very much into taking care of family. Well, unless someone rats, but that's a whole other thread. ;) Oh, and working in the music industry years ago, I can say that drug besotted or not, musicians can be absolute temperamental divas... male and female alike.
Click to expand...

In a way this made me think of some bikers I see around the country, especially around Easter & Christmas. As they ride along a planned route.

These events raise funds and collects Easter eggs for less fortunate children and struggling families. Kind-hearted people are encouraged to line the route where they can watch and also hand over chocolate eggs (and toys at Christmas) to the bikers. These are then given to families that wouldn't normally get Easter Eggs at this time of year.

Thousands of bikers partake in some of the larger events. The sound can sometimes seem 'deafening'

easter bikers.JPG
 
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JustDave said:
I was never clear on that, but the paperback covers I picture in my mind all seem to be from that time period.
Click to expand...
Please forgive me for once again going off topic. Talking about "covers," Fabio was the favourite of romance readers for a few years. I greatly disliked Fabio's looks, thought he was one of the most unappetizing looking male models to come along, yet the female readers must have loved his looks. I know that tastes differ, but come on, Fabio, really??? :ROFLMAO:
 
Old Salt said:
But he was a man of his time. I don't condone slapping a woman but I remember two movies that were full of wives being taken over a man's knee to receive a spanking. And the audiences loved them and saw nothing wrong with it.

John Wayne's "The Quiet Man!" with Maureen O'Hara comes to mind. There was another Western (ah, now I remember "McLintock") with the two of them, where another spanking scene was featured. Her mistake? She was stubborn and disobedient to her husband! You couldn't make a movie like that these days. Time has moved on, but some of us get a bit stuck in the past!
Click to expand...

My dad was a man of the same time, as were the men / relatives around me when I was young. None of whom thought there could be a time when a woman needed a slap, even if it could be perceived as self-defence on the part of the man. There are ways a being a man without a feeling of acceptably of assaulting a woman.

Growing up, the men in my life, including my dad and other relatives, were very much the products of their time, and the culture in which they grow up in, which often wasn’t very nice, and was at times violent. However, even then, they never condoned violence against women, even in the name of self-defence. Being a man doesn't have to mean resorting to physical aggression against women. Or being violent towards men for that matter.
 
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Medusa said:
I think at this point further comment from me is unnecessary as I have made my position clear and I have no more to add to this discussion. Wishing you well; see you in other threads.
Click to expand...

I look forward to seeing you in the threads, and interacting with you. :)
 
Shalimar said:
Over the years, Sean Connery aired some rather disturbing views around slapping women. For example, in an interview with Barbara Walters, he indicated that, in his opinion, slapping a woman was acceptable, providing she deserved it. Hardly the mark of a real man.
Click to expand...
When does a woman, or man for that matter, deserve being slapped?

Except maybe to revive someone I can't think of a good reason.
 
Old Salt said:
Please forgive me for once again going off topic. Talking about "covers," Fabio was the favourite of romance readers for a few years. I greatly disliked Fabio's looks, thought he was one of the most unappetizing looking male models to come along, yet the female readers must have loved his looks. I know that tastes differ, but come on, Fabio, really??? :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
Not for this gal... I never thought Fabio was anything special at all. When he was younger, he looked like an old man to me... and when he got older, there was always something very out of proportion with his face/nose when I looked at him. (P.S... Fabio, if you ever drop into Senior Forums, forget I said that, buddy.) 🤭
 
Magna-Carta said:
My dad was a man of the same time, as were the men / relatives around me when I was young. None of whom thought there could be a time when a woman needed a slap, even if it could be perceived as self-defence on the part of the man. There are ways a being a man without a feeling of acceptably of assaulting a woman.

Growing up, the men in my life, including my dad and other relatives, were very much the products of their time. However, even then, they never condoned violence against women, even in the name of self-defence. Being a man doesn't have to mean resorting to physical aggression against women.
Click to expand...
Must be a difference in cultures as well! I had so many friends who hated their fathers (late 1940s) because they were harsh and abusive. Maybe they had been changed by war, I don't know, but physical violence was quite common in those homes and in most people's view a slap wasn't anything to be taken seriously.

I experienced regular caning in my younger school days, on my *** and on my hands! A good friend of mine and school mate had his cheek opened from a slap, by a female teacher's ring, because we were a few minutes late for class (again late forties).

Every one in my village felt free to punish any child they saw "doing wrong!" All is now horrifying by today's standards. But every house had a cane and mothers knew how to use it!

Addition: "Spare the rod and spoil the child" Another O.T. quote obeyed by all too many in my day!
 
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Medusa said:
@Magna-Carta, I can appreciate your attempt to change the picture of yourself you've created (perhaps inadvertently) with your original post, which was in fact insensitive and lacking compassion or even self-awareness as you didn't at that time seem to realize how obtuse your words made you seem. And how such talk only serves to add to the harmful and unfair stigma still surrounding mental illness.

I agree with you in that it is wrong to diagnose your partner with a mental illness. Whether you end up being correct is irrelevant; it's an unhelpful and discriminatory practice.

While I understand you are trying to present a more clear picture of why you made such an unsympathetic statement in the first place, it is unnecessary, and unhelpful overall, to publicly relay details of the actions and behaviors of people suffering from mental illness you have been/or feel harmed by.

There is enough of this sort of talk in the media and on the street; if you truly feel it is important to approach this topic with sensitivity then do that.

It's not that I don't have sympathy for you in your past struggles because I do; it's only that I think they are more appropriately addressed in a therapeutic setting (at least in such detail) rather than a public form.

If, as you mentioned, you do indeed stand by your first post, I stand by my response to it.
Click to expand...
With respect, as a therapist, I think it can be quite healthy for individuals to share such experiences on a venue such as sf. For their own healing/growth, and also as an opportunity for others to gain knowledge. I certainly did not find anything stated to be lacking in self knowledge, nor insensitive. Much of my work places me in contact with people in various states

of emotional or mental illness. I am in the compassion business, but, the fact remains, mental illness can often negatively impact not only the sufferer, but those close to them. For example, Bipolar Disorder can be very hard on

relationships. It is estimated up to 90% of all relationships fail due to the nature of this illness. How very sad for all concerned. Part of removing the taboos around mental illness is the frank acknowledgement of the impact on the individual and those in their circle.
 
Shalimar said:
With respect, as a therapist, I think it can be quite healthy for individuals to share such experiences on a venue such as sf. For their own healing/growth, and also as an opportunity for others to gain knowledge. I certainly did not find anything stated to be lacking in self knowledge, nor insensitive. Much of my work places me in contact with people in various states

of emotional or mental illness. I am in the compassion business, but, the fact remains, mental illness can often negatively impact not only the sufferer, but those close to them. For example, Bipolar Disorder can be very hard on

relationships. It is estimated up to 90% of all relationships fail due to the nature of this illness. How very sad for all concerned. Part of removing the taboos around mental illness is the frank acknowledgement of the impact on the individual and those in their circle.
Click to expand...
I respect your opinion, @Shalimar.
 
Old Salt said:
Please forgive me for once again going off topic. Talking about "covers," Fabio was the favourite of romance readers for a few years. I greatly disliked Fabio's looks, thought he was one of the most unappetizing looking male models to come along, yet the female readers must have loved his looks. I know that tastes differ, but come on, Fabio, really??? :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

Welcome to the off topic thread. :ROFLMAO:...

Sorry, I thought this really funny for some reason. I will have to go off and analyse myself to see why i found that funny. :) Maybe reajust my thinking in the process.
 
CallMeKate said:
Not for this gal... I never thought Fabio was anything special at all. When he was younger, he looked like an old man to me... and when he got older, there was always something very out of proportion with his face/nose when I looked at him. (P.S... Fabio, if you ever drop into Senior Forums, forget I said that, buddy.) 🤭
Click to expand...
He may not have aged well, but back in the day....
fabio.jpg
He could eat crackers in my bed anytime! :p
 
Magna-Carta said:
Welcome to the off topic thread. :ROFLMAO:...

Sorry, I thought this really funny for some reason. I will have to go off and analyse myself to see why i found that funny. :) Maybe reajust my thinking in the process.
Click to expand...
Glad you found it funny. It was meant to be! I love to ramble on and go off-topic! Can't help it. I guess you get scatter-brained as you get older! :ROFLMAO:
 
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