I Got to Fly a Boeing 737-800

[JustDave]

I watched a video of one of those recent highly automated 737s that crashed on landing. I never heard the FDA's final results of the investigation, but I could see that the plane was coming in too low. Either the pilot or the automated system corrected by bringing the nose up. This would be the correct solution providing you have enough speed to lift the plane up. If you don't have enough speed, you slow down even more and land in a hard "thunk" or a flat out crash.

With a fully automated system, you would expect the programed algorithms to make all the necessary coordinated adjustments to land correctly. Maybe the pilot switched to manual, if in fact the system would allow that, but by that time, it was too late. If the plane was going too slow, full throttle takes seconds to have any affect on the speed.

Of course I'm not an expert, but I do partially understand some of the flight dynamics involved. But there's a lot going on all at the same time in a landing, and you're supposed to get them all coordinated together. You can't forget one critical factor and expect the other ten to save the day.

 

[oldman]

Does ILS compensate for crosswinds?

No. By using the ailerons and rudder, pilots can generally keep the plane level and in a straight position. Pitch and trim are important during landing. Pilots use instruments to determine wind speed and direction, but also ATC gives pilots the wind speed and direction before landing.
It’s best to put the nose wheel onto the centerline.

 

[oldman]

I watched a video of one of those recent highly automated 737s that crashed on landing. I never heard the FDA's final results of the investigation, but I could see that the plane was coming in too low. Either the pilot or the automated system corrected by bringing the nose up. This would be the correct solution providing you have enough speed to lift the plane up. If you don't have enough speed, you slow down even more and land in a hard "thunk" or a flat out crash.

With a fully automated system, you would expect the programed algorithms to make all the necessary coordinated adjustments to land correctly. Maybe the pilot switched to manual, if in fact the system would allow that, but by that time, it was too late. If the plane was going too slow, full throttle takes seconds to have any affect on the speed.

Of course I'm not an expert, but I do partially understand some of the flight dynamics involved. But there's a lot going on all at the same time in a landing, and you're supposed to get them all coordinated together. You can't forget one critical factor and expect the other ten to save the day.

Either the pilot or the automated system corrected by bringing the nose up. This would be the correct solution providing you have enough speed to lift the plane up. If you don't have enough speed, you slow down even more and land in a hard "thunk" or a flat out crash.

I think you are referring to the “flair” for the landing. One part that’s crucial was omitted. On landing, by extending the flaps, drag will slow the plane, but keep it airborne at a slower speed. As the plane is descending for landing, the flaps are extended because the plane’s speed is being slowed. Generally, there are three or four steps used in extending the flaps as the plane descends and the speed is slowed. The flaps are extended to allow more air to flow over the wings as the speed is slowed. We also keep the nose raised slightly, which helps to slow the aircraft without pulling back on the accelerators. Keeping the engines speed up will prevent a stall.

I know all of thus sounds confusing and some of it may not even make sense, but there are a lot of variables that the pilot can use during landing the aircraft. It mainly depends on how the pilot is landing. Is he or she using the A/P or hand flying the plane? What are the weather conditions? What equipment does the aircraft and airport have available? And so on.

 

[JustDave]

I think you are referring to the “flair” for the landing. One part that’s crucial was omitted. On landing, by extending the flaps, drag will slow the plane, but keep it airborne at a slower speed. As the plane is descending for landing, the flaps are extended because the plane’s speed is being slowed. Generally, there are three or four steps used in extending the flaps as the plane descends and the speed is slowed. The flaps are extended to allow more air to flow over the wings as the speed is slowed. We also keep the nose raised slightly, which helps to slow the aircraft without pulling back on the accelerators. Keeping the engines speed up will prevent a stall.

I know all of thus sounds confusing and some of it may not even make sense, but there are a lot of variables that the pilot can use during landing the aircraft. It mainly depends on how the pilot is landing. Is he or she using the A/P or hand flying the plane? What are the weather conditions? What equipment does the aircraft and airport have available? And so on.

Yes, I don't think I ever used the word "flair" because I didn't know what it was called, but all that stuff about flaps and engine speed, I could actually feel that in the sim. Well, I'm taking a bit of liberty talking about what I could "feel." You can't feel anything in the sim, but I could still consciously be aware of it by keeping an eye on the information in the control panel and knowing what was happening to the plane. I could "sense" things in that way. If nosing up caused an unsolvable acceleration in my descent, I could solve that with a bit more throttle but no more (or less) than what the landing speed required. I don't know if that was correct, but it worked in the sim.

 

[oldman]

Yes, I don't think I ever used the word "flair" because I didn't know what it was called, but all that stuff about flaps and engine speed, I could actually feel that in the sim. Well, I'm taking a bit of liberty talking about what I could "feel." You can't feel anything in the sim, but I could still consciously be aware of it by keeping an eye on the information in the control panel and knowing what was happening to the plane. I could "sense" things in that way. If nosing up caused an unsolvable acceleration in my descent, I could solve that with a bit more throttle but no more (or less) than what the landing speed required. I don't know if that was correct, but it worked in the sim.

I presume we are talking about being in our final for the landing. If so, here’s where we differ. You are adjusting your speed manually in the sim. On a 737 or larger aircraft or any plane using fly by wire, the plane will most likely have and use the auto throttles, which controls the necessary speed.

 

[JustDave]

I presume we are talking about being in our final for the landing. If so, here’s where we differ. You are adjusting your speed manually in the sim. On a 737 or larger aircraft or any plane using fly by wire, the plane will most likely have and use the auto throttles, which controls the necessary speed.

If auto throttle was available in the sim, I hadn't discovered it. But through the years I was continually discovering things, some quite basic that I should have known. Now the last version I had was the last one they put out, somewhere around 2000, before they closed and then started up again 20 years later. I could land hands free with the speed set at wherever I set it on the autopilot, but there were no automatic adjustments made to the speed. The minute the wheels touched down, I had to start turning things off and on in a flurry of activity and apply the breaks.

I've often wondered how close this came to actual aircraft. I was under the impression that their controls closely mimicked the real thing. But landing took a lot of concentration with that flurry of activity relying partly on muscle memory. The kind of thing I would hope wouldn't be that way for an actual pilot.

 

[Grampa Don]

Have you ever tried to fly a sim helicopter? I couldn't do it. I asked a friend who was a helicopter pilot it the real thing was that difficult. He told me it wasn't and he had done both.

 

[JustDave]

Have you ever tried to fly a sim helicopter? I couldn't do it. I asked a friend who was a helicopter pilot it the real thing was that difficult. He told me it wasn't and he had done both.

It took a long time to get the hang of it, and I could even land it, but not that well. I never mastered setting it down on a mark, I would usually miss it by many yards.

 

[Born_To_Lose]

From my experience, you will need a gaming card. Flight Simulator is a power hog. There was never a current computer powerful enough to take advantage of it all, but the the fastest processor chip and as much memory as you can fit into your computer makes the experience much smoother.

You will need a joystick, which most kids could have anyway, but a flight yoke for a few more dollars, is a much more realistic experience than a joy stick for modern aircraft. My flight yoke came with a throttle and various buttons and switches that can be set to activate brakes, frequencies, landing gear, or other things you need to do.

Alternatively you can use the key board to lower and raise landing gear, operate flaps etc, but the key board is not at all realistic, because pilots don't fly planes that way. You can also use the mouse to operate all the controls on the control panels, but mostly I relied on buttons. After that, there's no end to other peripherals you can sink money into.

There's a lot of learning involved too. It took me a year to become competent, and after that, I learned more things during the years that followed. Flight simulator comes with teaching programs that help you learn how to do various tasks involved in flying. It's quite involved and all part of the fun. I learned things on line in forums or in flying with other enthusiasts on line. I did it for years.

You can fly at night, and that's fun flying over large cities or coming in for a landing at a busy airport. It's quite stunning. I don't consider Flight Simulator a game. It's more like a realistic experience.

I was pricing some of the gaming cards that would best suit a Flight Simulator. I was almost shocked when I called a friend of mine that is involved in gaming and he told me that I should expect to spend anywhere from $300-500. I also learned that some of these cards go over a $1000. Yikes!

 

[JustDave]

I was pricing some of the gaming cards that would best suit a Flight Simulator. I was almost shocked when I called a friend of mine that is involved in gaming and he told me that I should expect to spend anywhere from $300-500. I also learned that some of these cards go over a $1000. Yikes!

I was told one time, that gamers were primarily responsible for driving Intel and other chip manufactures to keep producing faster more powerful chips. I don't know how true that was, but I'm sure gamers were helping. I would think the military probably looks for more powerful equipment too. Business applications don't need the kind of power games require.

When I got serious about flight sim, I remember that feeling of Yee Gads, do I really need to spend that much on a computer? Gamers do it, and brag about it. Typical Sim forums sometimes include a list of computer's specs in a proud guy's bio.

But all in all, it's cheaper than another hobby... model railroading.

 

[Born_To_Lose]

I was told one time, that gamers were primarily responsible for driving Intel and other chip manufactures to keep producing faster more powerful chips. I don't know how true that was, but I'm sure gamers were helping. I would think the military probably looks for more powerful equipment too. Business applications don't need the kind of power games require.

When I got serious about flight sim, I remember that feeling of Yee Gads, do I really need to spend that much on a computer? Gamers do it, and brag about it. Typical Sim forums sometimes include a list of computer's specs in a proud guy's bio.

But all in all, it's cheaper than another hobby... model railroading.

I own stock in Nvidia and have since 2020 during COVID when the stock climbed tremendously. Even now, the analysts rate it as a “strong buy.” My friend bought a gaming chair for his grandson and spent over $400, just on a chair.

 

[oldman]

No, the ILS does not compensate for crosswinds. The pilot or autopilot will adjust the heading or nose into the wind. This is known as “crabbing.”
The pilot must keep the plane aligned with the centerline on the runway. By keeping the plane aligned with the centerline, it will also keep the plane’s path centered with the Localizer.

Edited: I wanted to add that keeping the plane on center while dealing with a crosswind is referred to as crabbing, I do not use pseudonyms in place of the correct explanation when explaining situations to new pilots. They will learn this later.

Q: What’s the difference between God and a pilot?
A: God doesn’t think he’s a pilot
Old Joke

 

[oldman]

I need to know a little more about using the flight simulator. Does anyone make a console with the pedals and levers for the landing gear?
If so, where can I check it out online? What gaming card is best suited for this program? How much RAM do I need?

I know, a lot of questions. I would like to know what all is needed to have a real life experience.

 

[Grampa Don]

I need to know a little more about using the flight simulator. Does anyone make a console with the pedals and levers for the landing gear?
If so, where can I check it out online? What gaming card is best suited for this program? How much RAM do I need?

I know, a lot of questions. I would like to know what all is needed to have a real life experience.

I think your best bet is to join the Flightsim forum. You will find lots of helpful expertise there.

 

[Gardenlover]

One of my retired pilot friends has this really great flight simulator program from Microsoft. I never tried any of these programs before I tried this one. It takes a little time to get to know the intricacies or details of the program, but it was very real feeling and even the sounds made me feel like I really was in a cockpit flying a plane. I can see where a person without any flying experience, it would be a bit challenging.

I am considering buying one, but not totally convinced it’s something that I would fully enjoy. After all, it is a video game type.

You could always get a full blown flight simulator. I heard FlightSafety International is having a sale.

 

[Gardenlover]

Flight Simulator has come a long way from its beginning. Here's my first version on my Commodore 64.

I had that version as well.

 

[JustDave]

I need to know a little more about using the flight simulator. Does anyone make a console with the pedals and levers for the landing gear?
If so, where can I check it out online? What gaming card is best suited for this program? How much RAM do I need?

I know, a lot of questions. I would like to know what all is needed to have a real life experience.

Logitech G (Saitek) Flight Simulator Yoke and Rudder Pedals

I can't remember the manufacturer of the flight yoke and pedals I had. When I googled I got a bunch, but mine wasn't there. But below is the candy store you might be looking for

flight simulator control systems at DuckDuckGo

If this link doesn't work, google 'flight simulator control systems'

 

[oldman]

Yes, unless the wind is strong enough to blow you out of the glide path, at least in the sim. I've wondered how a real plane reacts to wavering from the path. The ILS will take you right down to the ground, but I would still be concentrating on what the plane was doing, and making sure everything in the landing was right. The ILS does not control your speed. That's up to the pilot, and speed is a critical factor in landings.

I talked to a commercial pilot I met on one of his days off, and asked him what real flying was like. He described it as hours and hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror. I don't know how much of that was a joke, but just from my sim experience, I understood what he meant.

If he was serious about sheer terror, I’m not flying with him. I never got to that point.

The really great thing about flying commercial and preparing for landing and more is we use checklists that give step by step instructions of how to line up for the ILS and then further steps for configuring the instruments, so that we have a successful smooth landing. If I can find an old checklist, I will try to upload it here. “If” I can locate one. I had an old book of all the checklists at one time and then our house burned to the ground. We lost everything. My wife almost had a nervous breakdown because all of our pics were destroyed. She had a lot of memories of her parents, brothers and sisters all gone. Mine too.

Living fifteen miles from the nearest fire station didn’t help.