I need to rage a bit

[Paco Dennis]

YOU are the one enjoying the fruits, SHE is facing the consequences of you not doing your duty to protect the system you had. She is not going to be living in the times when unions could protect wages and benefits. She is not going to live in a time when companies have pension plans.
She is not living in a time where she could get proper medical care if she suffers a miscarriage.
She is living in a time when many more species will go extinct, the amount of environmental contamination will increase, most jobs will be lost to AI (AI will take the good satisfying jobs that require creativity and thinking, not like the drudgery jobs that automation took over in your life).
YOU had democracy and democratic allies, but she is facing life in an oligarchy aligned with dictator-led countries and having to live under a corrupt and oppressive political system that treats her as a disadvantaged minority.
YOU lived when Horatio Alger stories were possible, and anti-trust actions were happening (remember the increase in our choices after Ma-Bell was broken up?), she is living in a time when small and medium companies are unfairly forced out by the giant corporations.
YOU lived in an era where freedom was celebrated and individual rights were increasing, she is facing the exact opposite.
YOU lived when old people had Social Security, she is facing a life where all services will be run just like the UHC CEO's of taking peoples money for a service and then denying them 37% of the time. That makes the victims of those systems very angry, and she is going forward into an era where all systems will devolve to similar ones.

YOU were asleep at the wheel while insidious changes were going on that killed the plant that was producing the fruits you are enjoying.

Your lifetime probably wouldn't fare well if you had to start out as a young person right now, maybe you wouldn't see socialism as an answer, maybe you would prefer a violent revolution instead? Or would you just lie there and take it?

You had better hope that no video influencer reads your words here. They are put in such an order as to annihilate any doubts about what the future holds for our near generations plus the political madness that will rule the day. Superb insight...thank you.

 

[smiley]

how to create the perfect society - Hmm? now there's a conundrum or two??

 

[Mr. Ed]

@Pepper do you need to rage a bit?

 

[Mr. Ed]

Create a perfect society? Start with nothing and keep it that way. Perfect society

 

[Della]

Well now we know it's all @Gardenlover's fault.

Even when I was young and thought I knew everything I wouldn't have been a guest in a coal miner's house and spouted off about the damage done by strip mining. She has bad manners. Let her take her politics to the pubs and coffee houses and be polite to Gardenlover while staying in his home.

 

[Twostep]

Your guest's convictions seem fanciful to me, and I might listen but I'd reject them. Thing is, I've visited countries in Europe that operate by social democracy (or democratic socialism) and one country elsewhere operating by more extreme socialism (i.e., Marxism or modified Marxism). These countries can't be viewed as identical with one another, but their social ideals always involved people pulling their weight. In the sense of contributing.

People who were lazy, completely undisciplined, or irresponsible wound up on the bottom of the social scale. The need for some form of social pragmatism always comes into play. Equality before the law may be a respected ideal, but there must be law and a system of law enforcement. Every society is faced with solving social challenges.

In my part of the world, I know a few people who have social ideals based on sentiment alone, but obviously no idea about how things can be practically managed. Most of these are nice people, but by no stretch of the imagination could they be society's leaders.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you on this. It is easy to have ideas. It is not easy to pay for turning them into reality.

 

[TinaM]

Agree. My son is retired military and is actually emigrating to another country in April. I won’t let him talk politics when we visit even though I agree with him. It’s too depressing. He thinks everything will be rosy when he leaves but he’s going to a third world country. There’s a lot bad here but there’s a lot I’m not willing to give up.

Sorry to hear that you had to deal with all that... I seem to see it a lot lately.

I've heard that schools in the US (elsewhere too, I'm sure) have been teaching a thing called Critical Race Theory since the early 2000's... you might want to read up on it...

Critical race theory is a college course. Not taught in grade schools.

 

[StarSong]

Well said, @HoneyNut. Our generation knows better and should be doing better for those who'll inhabit this planet after we're gone. Instead, too many choose to pretend everything is going just swimmingly.

Maybe they think Superman will swoop in to save the day, or that real life is like a half-hour sitcom... by the end of the episode all will be resolved nicely with everything reseting by next week, no harm, no foul.

 

[Pepper]

You are from Finland @Twostep? Once had a great friend from Finland. Taina was her name.

 

[Della]

Why is our generation responsible for all this? What did the generations before us do that was so much better and why aren't these energetic young people making great changes that benefit all mankind now that most of us have retired? Our generation tried to fight a war in Vietnam and worked hard to promote greater equality for women and minorities. Now those young women have gone through doors we opened for them. Why aren't they fixing everything?

 

[Twostep]

Agree. My son is retired military and is actually emigrating to another country in April. I won’t let him talk politics when we visit even though I agree with him. It’s too depressing. He thinks everything will be rosy when he leaves but he’s going to a third world country. There’s a lot bad here but there’s a lot I’m not willing to give up.


Critical race theory is a college course. Not taught in grade schools.

Unfortunately "Good Manners" seems to have been dropped everywhere.

 

[Twostep]

No Pepper. Just parents who travelled extensively for business and fun and considered their brood mini adults so we got to go as well. Then work with international companies and in positions with travel such as Moscow Olympics. Then wherever life took SO.

 

[Gardenlover]

YOU are the one enjoying the fruits, SHE is facing the consequences of you not doing your duty to protect the system you had. She is not going to be living in the times when unions could protect wages and benefits. She is not going to live in a time when companies have pension plans.
She is not living in a time where she could get proper medical care if she suffers a miscarriage.
She is living in a time when many more species will go extinct, the amount of environmental contamination will increase, most jobs will be lost to AI (AI will take the good satisfying jobs that require creativity and thinking, not like the drudgery jobs that automation took over in your life).
YOU had democracy and democratic allies, but she is facing life in an oligarchy aligned with dictator-led countries and having to live under a corrupt and oppressive political system that treats her as a disadvantaged minority.
YOU lived when Horatio Alger stories were possible, and anti-trust actions were happening (remember the increase in our choices after Ma-Bell was broken up?), she is living in a time when small and medium companies are unfairly forced out by the giant corporations.
YOU lived in an era where freedom was celebrated and individual rights were increasing, she is facing the exact opposite.
YOU lived when old people had Social Security, she is facing a life where all services will be run just like the UHC CEO's of taking peoples money for a service and then denying them 37% of the time. That makes the victims of those systems very angry, and she is going forward into an era where all systems will devolve to similar ones.

YOU were asleep at the wheel while insidious changes were going on that killed the plant that was producing the fruits you are enjoying.

Your lifetime probably wouldn't fare well if you had to start out as a young person right now, maybe you wouldn't see socialism as an answer, maybe you would prefer a violent revolution instead? Or would you just lie there and take it?

Golly Gee Willikers @HoneyNut - I've always known I was well connected, but never thought I had that much influence. You just made my day!

 

[gruntlabor]

I partly agree with her. I don't think pure capitalism is the right answer either.

So I am in favour of a degree of socialism - universal health care and education, for example.
It isn't a false dichotomy of either extreme of capitalism or socialism - it is a matter of finding the right balance or position on the spectrum.

And yes she is 'enjoying the fruits of your great country' - that doesn't mean she can't express a view on what should be changed or what, in her opinion,would be changes for the better.

No-one has ever said that our Great Experiment is perfect, but I believe it is the least evil of a lot of really bad stuff

 

[Nathan]

Why is our generation responsible for all this? What did the generations before us do that was so much better and why aren't these energetic young people making great changes that benefit all mankind now that most of us have retired? Our generation tried to fight a war in Vietnam and worked hard to promote greater equality for women and minorities. Now those young women have gone through doors we opened for them. Why aren't they fixing everything?

I don't believe that "our generation"(Baby Boomers?) is entirely responsible, per se. Let's just say that later generations are falling through the cracks, due to the direction that World economies have taken, to maximize profits. I think in order for Capitalism to serve the masses(and not just the rich) some form of evolutionary change is going to be necessary.

Something to ponder: China is a Capitalist powerhouse, without a doubt. They are "Communist" as in social order, but not economically.

 

[gruntlabor]

Exactly!

Respect for the ideas of the founding fathers, and for those who have sacrificed their lives for those ideas. Reverence for life, and the good earth, and for truth, and decency.

 

[LoveTulips]

Bunch of old tired farts answered this thread. I pity you for getting so old you can't remember your youth and ideas and ideals you were exposed to. We grew up in an intellectually exciting times, the sixties. Don't you people remember your own youth? Complaining about youth is a very negative,envious thing to involve yourself in.

Yes, when I was a young person, I was much nicer. I gave to beggars. I felt for everyone. Once I started working, had to pay for a home, etc. my younger ideals went out the window. I am disgusted with the number of young people/old people who ask me for money and the others who say, oh, give to the poor, the addicts, the alcoholics, etc.

Forget it, I worked my ass off and frankly everyone should get off their ass, get clean and get a job. Also my dad was abused so don't give me, oh, they've been abused so we have to help them. My dad worked extremely hard and you wouldn't find him hitting the bottle, or shooting up, or begging on the street. And he never went on welfare. He also was in WW II.

 

[papa tiger]

All the Gold 24 caret, ever mined in the world, ... = about $12,000,000,000,000. Most after 1950
Not much stored at Ft. Knox. The gold is in vaults at the Federal reserve and owned by a lot of countries in debt.

 

[LoveTulips]

Yes, when I was a young person, I was much nicer. I gave to beggars. I felt for everyone. Once I started working, had to pay for a home, etc. my younger ideals went out the window. I am disgusted with the number of young people/old people who ask me for money and the others who say, oh, give to the poor, the addicts, the alcoholics, etc. Forget it, I worked my ass off and frankly everyone should get off their ass, get clean and get a job.

Also my dad was abused so don't give me, oh, they've been abused so we have to help them. My dad worked extremely hard and you wouldn't find him hitting the bottle, or shooting up, or begging on the street. And he never went on welfare. He also was in WW II.

 

[papa tiger]

This thing about earned benefits / SS / 401 K. / Roth / Annuity's / Family living Trusts etc. It's all about a computer sending out a digital payment. its very hard to track that too. There is no such thing as a legal fund being Mt. It's a typical tool.

Only a fool believes the hoop a La La of them liars.
There is so much bad luck a coming too!

 

[JBR]

Respect for the ideas of the founding fathers, and for those who have sacrificed their lives for those ideas.

Slightly different historical roots up here, but I can still relate to your sentiments.

Reverence for life, and the good earth, and for truth, and decency.

Yes indeed, and I'm very glad you included reverence for the good earth.

 

[January]

No-one has ever said that our Great Experiment is perfect, but I believe it is the least evil of a lot of really bad stuff

Not really sure what point you are making here - I don't believe any system or any country is perfect - but I certainly dont think pure capitalism is the best option.

I am in favour of a degree of socialism.

Given no country is now pure capitalism or pure socialism, the question is only where on the spectrum is the right balance.
IMO places with universal health care, education, a reasonable welfare safety net are at the right balance. IMO that would not include USA.

 

[OldOld]

I am too old to worry about whatever the social system is better or worse. I am only interested in heaven now.

 

[papa tiger]

Not really sure what point you are making here - I don't believe any system or any country is perfect - but I certainly dont think pure capitalism is the best option.

I am in favour of a degree of socialism.

Given no country is now pure capitalism or pure socialism, the question is only where on the spectrum is the right balance.
IMO places with universal health care, education, a reasonable welfare safety net are at the right balance. IMO that would not include USA.

In the 80's I was introduced to a many young ladies in their early 20's with 3 - 4 children by 3 - 4 different guys living with their kids in gov. assisted with dependent child care. They couldn't prove the fathers were. Sort of like Mamma Mia, delight. No interest from me of that
well being. That was the times! Most likely though the beginning of problems with it all. Come to find out many SS workers LGBtq.

 

[smiley]

the tramp street sleeping popn in major oz cities is growing steadily according to govt stats. Apparently some have been offered flatlets - taken them and then a few weeks later prefer to be back on the streets?? got me puzzled