If love is everything, what is the purpose of religion?

fancicoffee13 said:
I am a Christian and have read the Bible a few times. I pray to God and I go to church on a regular basis. Once you make up your mind to accept Jesus as your Savior, the Holy Spirit comes to live inside of you as a compass and helps guide you through life. I have to stay in the Bible every morning by listening to a pastor (David Jeremiah) on tv and reading a little of the Word. Starting your day off that way will greatly improve your life. I believe that every person choses what they want to live by. I chose God and the Bible. It works for me, he has done wondrous things in my life and I could go on and on. But, I respect everyone's right to decide what they want to live by or believe in.
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I am happy for you that this path is working. I have a younger brother who is really deep in that path. It seems to be a real center of strength for him. The only difficulty is that he has obvious disdain for anything different from that path, rather than accepting people where they are. Good to hear that you are not like that. :)

My brother and I do get along fine, as long as I keep my mouth shut and just listen to him go on quoting the Bible every other sentence, which I do in the interest of maintaining family relationships. I can accept and even be happy for my brother, but can't understand why it is so necessary for him to want to argue the rest of us into his belief system. To be clear, most Christians I know are NOT like that, so I don't intend to insinuate that they are. I just wish my brother wasn't that way.

Tony
 

tbeltrans said:
I am happy for you that this path is working. I have a younger brother who is really deep in that path. It seems to be a real center of strength for him. The only difficulty is that he has obvious disdain for anything different from that path, rather than accepting people where they are. Good to hear that you are not like that. :)

My brother and I do get along fine, as long as I keep my mouth shut and just listen to him go on quoting the Bible every other sentence, which I do in the interest of maintaining family relationships. I can accept and even be happy for my brother, but can't understand why it is so necessary for him to want to argue the rest of us into his belief system. To be clear, most Christians I know are NOT like that, so I don't intend to insinuate that they are. I just wish my brother wasn't that way.

Tony
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Oh, I understand totally. I went through that, I really did. But, thanks to listening to the preachers I say I listen to, that is a no go for sure. Trying to argue with anyone into believing the way you do is never a good idea. There are so many different Baptist, Methodist, Catholic churches out there. Each, possibly, with their own focus, but really, there are churches on every corner with a "name" on it. I am glad to hear he is strong in his belief, but, like me, he will wake up one day on his own and see what he is trying to do on his own power isn't working.
 

fancicoffee13 said:
Oh, I understand totally. I went through that, I really did. But, thanks to listening to the preachers I say I listen to, that is a no go for sure. Trying to argue with anyone into believing the way you do is never a good idea. There are so many different Baptist, Methodist, Catholic churches out there. Each, possibly, with their own focus, but really, there are churches on every corner with a "name" on it. I am glad to hear he is strong in his belief, but, like me, he will wake up one day on his own and see what he is trying to do on his own power isn't working.
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Thanks for the kind response. Unfortunately, I am not so sure he will change because he has been this way for many years. He is not a new "born again" Christian, but instead has held firmly to this path since the early 90s as far as I know. It is impressive how he has Bible quotes right there on the tip of his tongue for everything that comes up in conversation though. He would probably be an absolute whiz at a Biblical Trivia Pursuit. :)

Tony
 
fancicoffee13 said:
I am a Christian and have read the Bible a few times. I pray to God and I go to church on a regular basis. Once you make up your mind to accept Jesus as your Savior, the Holy Spirit comes to live inside of you as a compass and helps guide you through life. I have to stay in the Bible every morning by listening to a pastor (David Jeremiah) on tv and reading a little of the Word. Starting your day off that way will greatly improve your life. I believe that every person choses what they want to live by. I chose God and the Bible. It works for me, he has done wondrous things in my life and I could go on and on. But, I respect everyone's right to decide what they want to live by or believe in.
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He's the reason I got saved.
 
fancicoffee13 said:
Oh, I understand totally. I went through that, I really did. But, thanks to listening to the preachers I say I listen to, that is a no go for sure. Trying to argue with anyone into believing the way you do is never a good idea. There are so many different Baptist, Methodist, Catholic churches out there. Each, possibly, with their own focus, but really, there are churches on every corner with a "name" on it. I am glad to hear he is strong in his belief, but, like me, he will wake up one day on his own and see what he is trying to do on his own power isn't working.
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One more point, since you are so patient with him, that is wonderful. One of these days, as he is getting so involved in his belief, he will wake up and see that you are to listen and wait, be still and wait on God. The stories in the Bible never, never, talk of someone beating others over the head with God's Word to win them. In fact, it is a big turn off, and guess what? They stop listening!
 
MarciKS said:
I have never found church to be a very accepting place. I prefer to have a relationship with God by myself.
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I can understand that also. As a matter of fact, there was a time when I chose to read the Bible from front to back by myself, and I did it. Some of it is totally boring Chronicles and Numbers. But, it is good to want to do that search just between you and God.
 
tbeltrans said:
Thanks for the kind response. Unfortunately, I am not so sure he will change because he has been this way for many years. He is not a new "born again" Christian, but instead has held firmly to this path since the early 90s as far as I know. It is impressive how he has Bible quotes right there on the tip of his tongue for everything that comes up in conversation though. He would probably be an absolute whiz at a Biblical Trivia Pursuit. :)

Tony
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I was too for many years. But, I learned many things also. I learned to do things even when my emotions said, "No way!" Pray for him for however long it takes. You have heard about how grandmothers always prayed for their children and grandchildren? Those prayers never go unanswered!
 
fancicoffee13 said:
One more point, since you are so patient with him, that is wonderful. One of these days, as he is getting so involved in his belief, he will wake up and see that you are to listen and wait, be still and wait on God. The stories in the Bible never, never, talk of someone beating others over the head with God's Word to win them. In fact, it is a big turn off, and guess what? They stop listening!
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You will be a wonderful witness to him. Patience.
 
fancicoffee13 said:
I was too for many years. But, I learned many things also. I learned to do things even when my emotions said, "No way!" Pray for him for however long it takes. You have heard about how grandmothers always prayed for their children and grandchildren? Those prayers never go unanswered!
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I think we would end up with an uncontrolled feedback loop with him praying for me and me praying for him. :)

The way I always heard it, prayers always get answered, but not always in ways we expect or want them to. Anyway, good advice.

Tony
 
tbeltrans said:
I think we would end up with an uncontrolled feedback loop with him praying for me and me praying for him. :)

The way I always heard it, prayers always get answered, but not always in ways we expect or want them to. Anyway, good advice.

Tony
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Right on point. And the prayer thing, you can't beat that!
 
You need to have read and studied enough of your bible to determine when the pastor wanders off topic
and begins stating his personal opinion on topics.
Preachers need a great deal of monitoring.
Bible Churches read the scriptures, then the preacher explains any difficult points-they too wander off topic.

(I know better than to post of this or any other thread that involves personal opinions (not beliefs-opinions.
now i go away.)
 
jerry old said:
You need to have read and studied enough of your bible to determine when the pastor wanders off topic
and begins stating his personal opinion on topics.
Preachers need a great deal of monitoring.
Bible Churches read the scriptures, then the preacher explains any difficult points-they too wander off topic.

(I know better than to post of this or any other thread that involves personal opinions (not beliefs-opinions.
now i go away.)
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This is true.
 
jerry old said:
You need to have read and studied enough of your bible to determine when the pastor wanders off topic
and begins stating his personal opinion on topics.
Preachers need a great deal of monitoring.
Bible Churches read the scriptures, then the preacher explains any difficult points-they too wander off topic.

(I know better than to post of this or any other thread that involves personal opinions (not beliefs-opinions.
now i go away.)
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They can and do just that.
 
Rosemarie said:
It is in the nature of most human beings to believe in a being superior to themselves, and to worship that being and hold it responsible for everything that happens. Much of the Old Testament holds 'God' responsible for events which we now know were not caused by him/her/it. This is what is known as religion.
Just my opinion.
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Rosemarie stated; "It is in the nature of most human beings to believe in a being superior to themselves, and to worship that being and hold it responsible for everything that happens. "

I think that when I'd been in the first grade for a few weeks, that's the way I felt about the first portion of her statement - - -up until "and to worship that being".

By the time I was in high school I pushed the latter part of it when making excuses to my folks . - The part about my teacher "being responsible for everything that happens".
 
DaveA said:
Rosemarie stated; "It is in the nature of most human beings to believe in a being superior to themselves, and to worship that being and hold it responsible for everything that happens. "

I think that when I'd been in the first grade for a few weeks, that's the way I felt about the first portion of her statement - - -up until "and to worship that being".

By the time I was in high school I pushed the latter part of it when making excuses to my folks . - The part about my teacher "being responsible for everything that happens".
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Whenever anything bad happens, there are always people who ask 'Why does God let these things happen?' So, even in these supposedly enlightened times, many people DO think God is in control. People used to make sacrifices to appease the Gods. Didn't make much difference, bad things still happened.
I do wonder why so many people can't accept that mankind chooses to commit evil deeds, and that disasters happen naturally. Why do they try to blame an outside force?
 
My personal belief about why people have religions, as well as other explanations for the world around them is that many of us (possibly not all?) seem to need to make sense of things. I saw some of this (not about religion) when I tried living in a small town. People seemed to need to know all about me and if I didn't provide the scoop, they made stuff up.

As I have said in other posts I don't know what I don't know, and there is much that I simply can't know for various reasons.

What I mean by "I don't know what I don't know" is that until I have encountered some thing or idea, I don't even known that it exists. There are also things that, even if I am aware of their existence, or at least claims of their existence (example: UFOs), I have no way of experiencing and knowing as solid provable fact that these exist, what they are, etc. I think one area where we run into trouble is when we confuse BELIEF with KNOWING. I can choose to believe a thing that I have no way of proving to my satisfaction, which is far different than knowing with absolute provable certainty that a thing exists. I know for absolute certainty that the laptop that I am typing this post on, exists. I have no way to prove with any degree of absolute certainty that God exists and in what form.

I BELIEVE in intelligent design because my forays into science and technology reveal to me an intricacy that would be difficult for me to describe and write off as a happy accident. I say "for me" because I know of other people who come to a different conclusion and I have no solid proof to claim them to be any more wrong or right than I am in my own chosen beliefs. However, I have to be honest with myself and not claim anything beyond my personal choice to believe all that I have seen is not a happy accident because I can't prove conclusively that there is a higher power that created all this.

There is far too much that I simply don't know with absolute certainty to be able to claim that what various religions believe is right or wrong, that God exists in the form that one particular religion claims and everybody else is wrong, that there is or isn't a higher power. The best I can do is choose to believe in something or not.

Descartes nearly drove himself insane, grappling with these kinds of issues using his mathematical mind and logic. I intend to remain sane. :)

For me, it seems the wisest choice of action is to simply respect others and their choices of beliefs, and hope they will respect mine in return.

Tony
 
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tbeltrans said:
My personal belief about why people have religions, as well as other explanations for the world around them is that many of us (possibly not all?) seem to need to make sense of things. I saw some of this (not about religion) when I tried living in a small town. People seemed to need to know all about me and if I didn't provide the scoop, they made stuff up.

As I have said in other posts I don't know what I don't know, and there is much that I simply can't know for various reasons.

What I mean by "I don't know what I don't know" is that until I have encountered some thing or idea, I don't even known that it exists. There are also things that, even if I am aware of their existence, or at least claims of their existence (example: UFOs), I have no way of experiencing and knowing as solid provable fact that these exist, what they are, etc. I think one area where we run into trouble is when we confuse BELIEF with KNOWING. I can choose to believe a thing that I have no way of proving to my satisfaction, which is far different than knowing with absolute provable certainty that a thing exists. I know for absolute certainty that the laptop that I am typing this post on, exists. I have no way to prove with any degree of absolute certainty that God exists and in what form.

I BELIEVE in intelligent design because my forays into science and technology reveal to me an intricacy that would be difficult for me to describe and write off as a happy accident. I say "for me" because I know of other people who come to a different conclusion and I have no solid proof to claim them to be any more wrong or right than I am in my own chosen beliefs. However, I have to be honest with myself and not claim anything beyond my personal choice to believe all that I have seen is not a happy accident because I can't prove conclusively that there is a higher power that created all this.

There is far too much that I simply don't know with absolute certainty to be able to claim that what various religions believe is right or wrong, that God exists in the form that one particular religion claims and everybody else is wrong, that there is or isn't a higher power. The best I can do is choose to believe in something or not.

Descartes nearly drove himself insane, grappling with these kinds of issues using his mathematical mind and logic. I intend to remain sane. :)

For me, it seems the wisest choice of action is to simply respect others and their choices of beliefs, and hope they will respect mine in return.

Tony
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You might just want to put me on ignore. Better for you I am thinking. Better for me probably. I do like you though. I just feel, as you said something to the effect that as we get used to each other‘s writing style we will understand each other better. Nope. Not happening.
 
Given the power and influence of religion over so many centuries it is perhaps true to say most of us have been affected by it, in the sense at least our forebears will have had to, and we might not be here but for this influence, providing strict rules about marriage and many other things, (be it always for good or ill). :censored:.
 
Aneeda72 said:
You might just want to put me on ignore. Better for you I am thinking. Better for me probably. I do like you though. I just feel, as you said something to the effect that as we get used to each other‘s writing style we will understand each other better. Nope. Not happening.
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I don't understand your response, but if that is what you want, I will do that.

Edit: I did say "My personal belief about why people have religion ...", which means that this is only MY belief and does not reflect what others believe. So I don't understand what there is to take offense with. I also stated toward the end that I believe we should each respect the other's beliefs. So this is where I am confused. However, since you wish me to ignore you, we likely won't be continuing the discussion about this particular matter. I honestly do appreciate your warning that our attempts at communicating won't work. Thank you.

Tony
 
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As an atheist, what is my interpretation for the purpose of religion?. I think you have to view religion in historical terms. Gods had purposes. We didn't know about the phenomena around us. Gods of thunder, Rain gods, Fertility gods, etc. One by one, as we gained scientific knowledge ,gods were loosing their purposes. We still have one large unknown, and that is death. All religions today are death, and post death oriented. Religion offers a pathway to a perceived afterlife. I see religion as a mixed bag. While most religions are inclusive and benign, their practitioners are not. Zealots throughout history engaged in one long bloody, horrific purge after another.
 
Warrigal said:
Purpose? You might just as well ask what it the purpose of the Sun ?
The Sun just is, without purpose, but not without benefit.

Think of religion in that framework and ask what, if anything, is its benefit ?

Some would answer there is no benefit, while others would say that for them it provides meaning for their very existence. We would probably get the same range of answers if we asked what is the purpose of art, or music.
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Not purpose, but why religion? Does religion serve a purpose, if so what? As in can similar results be achieved without religion?
 
Knight said:
I cut out all the rest of your post to ask you if you could explain how you came to that statement.

It could be a true statement if all the violence and murder in various parts of the bible that are attributed to God continued on in those that are violent & commit murder.

What's your take on violence & murder being derived from God?
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What do you mean derived from God, seriously I don't understand
 

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