Illinois Has An Assault Weapons Ban, Makes Me Think About Moving to Illinois!

It's not a clip, it's a magazine. Please post a pic of that 20 round mag for a rem 06.

And how many mass murders have been committed w AR style weapons vs an .06 or other sporting rifles?
 

againstthegrain said:
That's speculation on your part, you have no proof of that. And history shows that 3/4's of mass shooters obtain some of their weapons used legally.
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Legally? According to an ATF agent:
Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf.

According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

I don't consider these scenarios a legal way to get a weapon.
 
squatting dog said:
By the way... trick question post 13. Both guns in the picture fire semi-auto and one holds 18 rounds while the other holds 17. Yet, the scary black one is considered an "assault" rifle.
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The scary black ones, with the tricked out rail mount goodies and tactical stock are the type that the low self esteem manboys and wackjobs lust after. My tame looking Ruger Mini 14(see attached) fires the same ammunition as an AR-15, has the same rate of fire, and is just as accurate. To me, my Mini 14 is a tool, not a play toy.
 

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I am ambivalent on the whole gun issue. If outlawing guns, or some guns, would reduce our risk of death or injury I would favor it. I think it would, problem is it's hard to find good statistical evidence one way or the other.
caroln said:
They can ban them all they want, but mass murderers, gang members, and terrorist groups will still have them readily available through various sources not available to ordinary citizens. So what's the point? ... From what I've read, confiscating guns on a wide scale would be a hugely complicated task, involving investigations, search warrants, illegal gun dealers, the black market, etc. I just don't see it happening.
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Don M. said:
Outlawing Anything just leads to another "black market" and allows the criminals and gangs to make More Money, Outlawing booze during the days of Prohibition made the Mafia rich, and that principal would apply to any "weapons" ban.
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oldaunt said:
its easier to get an illegal black market gun.
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All of these and similar arguments have some rational basis, problem is to my knowledge they have not really been tested. Not in any rigorous scientific way. If someone else knows of such please post it.

This one however I am not sure of, but it is funny. @oldaunt I hope you figure out how to enforce that ban, we have no constitutional right to keep and bear chiggers...
oldaunt said:
I banned chiggers. There are still chiggers.
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I am skeptical of all these, but know my skepticism is not statistically or scientifically based. Somehow we need to get that basis, I'd be happy to find out I am wrong. However if I am right such a basis is probably the only way to convince enough people that we need significant changes.

What I do know is that in the US we have both more guns and more gun violence than most any other developed country. It would sure be best for all of us to figure out why and do something about it.
 
Nathan said:
The scary black ones, with the tricked out rail mount goodies and tactical stock are the type that the low self esteem manboys and wackjobs lust after. My tame looking Ruger Mini 14(see attached) fires the same ammunition as an AR-15, has the same rate of fire, and is just as accurate. To me, my Mini 14 is a tool, not a play toy.
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Mine doesn't have a load of tricked out rail goodies. I'm just comfortable handling it, plus, being so familiar with it, I could disassemble and clean it or even replace the firing pin in the pitch black if need be.



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I have friends and family that own AR’s and that is ok since I know they would not use them for violence. But can we guarantee that no unfit person will get one? As a weapon, I think they are not very practical since they are not a great hunting gun and not something you can carry on your person for self defense. The only practical purpose would be in a state of war against a foreign (or domestic) invader so I guess if responsible people have these and are willing and able to use them for our defense maybe there is some merit. Myself I am not a fan of semiauto rifles - my deer rifle is lever action.
 
caroln said:
Legally? According to an ATF agent:
Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf.

According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

I don't consider these scenarios a legal way to get a weapon.
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77% of mass murders used weapons they purchased legally as per the DOJ so the straw purchase argument is another strawman argument anyway.


In any case if assault weapons were outlawed then there would be no straw purchases of that style weapon would there be?
 
OK here I would not live in a state like Illinois with that law I led a crime free life to own and compete in matches, In the last 90 days I have gone through 2 - 6 agency background checks both 100% clear (now you know more about me than I do you), matches are a part of my life here I passed on going today due to friends did not wish to go early to beat the heat here we are having, Texas summers get hot here, But I could have and would have taken 2 of those scary black rifles.

I can't even remember how many background checks I have had nor the hours of class training I have had from the last 40 plus years, I very much resent anyone that tries to remove this part of my life totally, our church even has shooting matches and an indoor range, we do not just stand and shoot targets much movement far from it. Our matches are designed from actual police reports as real as safety allows, sure no stand and shoot bullseyes, we have had over 1000 people so far go through our church safety classes now there is a 750 member cap with about a 3 year waiting period to be approved.

No negative anything and your out just one! You are even responsible for guests you bring along, a guest of a member about 9-10 years back made a remark that resulted in the removal of a member's family and guest from our property just a anti gun remark was all said I shoot weekly and have for many years it is a huge part of my life and as stated I resent deeply those who wish to stop it. In the off weeks we have 1st aid classes from paramedic and doctor members at no charge for anyone topics are from member suggestions.

I was checked backgrounds from FBI, ATF, CITY, STATE, MILITARY and my doctors that's the same for all members not for everyone but my life here. So very pro gun here person.
Next Sat is our church sponsored pistol match I will attend. We even have lo light night matches both indoor and outside only those who shoot regular with us and known safe are invited.
 
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A typical scenario could be laying in a bed with covers your firearm in a nightstand with light there also engage multiple bad guys at a realistic distance found in a home (3-5 yrds) through a doorway shooting from the bed with no feet on the ground, 2 shots to body minimum followed by a head shot, OR changing an actual tire with the only light from a road flare, everything gets at least 2 shots to center of mass or as specified in course description. No single targets normally.
 
Nathan said:
The scary black ones, with the tricked out rail mount goodies and tactical stock are the type that the low self esteem manboys and wackjobs lust after. My tame looking Ruger Mini 14(see attached) fires the same ammunition as an AR-15, has the same rate of fire, and is just as accurate. To me, my Mini 14 is a tool, not a play toy.
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Self esteem manboys and wackjobs. Okay.
 
How many people here actually know the difference between an actual AR 15 (American Rifle Co. model # 15) and a real assault rifle? The former is a break-down rifle made for pack trips into the mountains for hunting. Or did you just take someone's word they were both the same? How many have never had any gun nor wanted one is just so skeeved at the idea that you don't bother to find out? Yet you vote?
 
@Wayne I have no problem with you, and people like you owning guns. You are not the problem.

Switzerland is an interesting case, gun ownership there is not as high as ours, but still pretty high. I know it was at one time, and may still be, required of all male citizens of the right age. They also had to regularly do target practice. Part of the Swiss 100% participation self defense thing. Worked pretty well for a long time. They were the only European continental county not controlled or invaded by Nazis or fascists in WWII.

The Swiss gun death rate is well below ours. One significant difference between us and the Swiss is regulation. They very tightly regulate gun ownership and use. Maybe something akin to what you describe for you and your range friends.

What can the Swiss teach the US about guns?
 
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