Info on solar Panels

I have them on my current house and a rental home. The rental house panels were placed and are owned by APS…our local electric company. I receive a 30 dollar credit each month on electric bill. My home has panels that are leased. I would never never never never do a lease. The panels are ten years into a twenty year lease. Payments are about 130 per month. Electric bill still exists because it feeds into the grid. Basic electric with all charges runs about 30 per month. The rental house with the 30 dollar credit better deal. Might be different if you purchase your solar panels outright upfront.
 
Mike said:
I have just spent some time learning about solar panels
and I have built myself a system that works better than
the retail models, it is on wheels and I just move it to
follow that sun.

Mike.
Click to expand...
That is interesting! The think that has kept me from considering them is that I don't want to put the things on my roof. Something on wheels makes a lot more sense to me.

Where did you get your plans? Or did you engineer the system yourself?
 
Alligatorob said:
Where did you get your plans? Or did you engineer the system yourself?
Click to expand...
There are no plans yet, Alligatorob, being an electrician, I got
to thinking about how it can be done, so I started studying the
subject, it was black magic to me at the time, but I don't give in
easily.

The strange thing about "Solar Power", that is available, in this
country, is that when they advertise their product, they will let
you know that it is one of the best systems on the market giving
28% output, in my eyes that is rubbish, so I tried my idea, and I
am consistently getting 90%+ this is from the panels, the problems
that the commercial people seem to have, is that when a panel is
shaded, or a bird dirties it, it stops producing electricity and starts
taking electricity from the other panels are still producing, this then
turns the panel into a heater.

So I suggest that you build your own system, if you are at all technical,
should you decide to do so, let me know and I will help you, with advice.

Mike.
 
Mike said:
So I suggest that you build your own system, if you are at all technical,
should you decide to do so, let me know and I will help you, with advice.
Click to expand...
Thanks Mike, I will look into it. I am also an engineer, civil not electrical.

When I took the Engineer in Training exam our advisor said the answer to all electrical questions is b, civils should not waste time reading those questions. I followed his advice and passed. That's about my level of electrical understanding...
 
Alligatorob your knowledge of electrics, or lack of will be
enough, to build one.

This isn't an electrical product until everything is assembled,
it is a construction job, my attempt was a construction for
around 4 months, as I changed bits, it was during that time
a "Research and Development", job, so everything is dormant
and connections are done backwards, all dead, even when the
batteries are connected, it is still dead, as the main switch is
OFF, the panels give off a maximum of 12 volts DC.

Mike.
 
Our friends in the village had their bungalow built with it's roof facing south. They have recently had solar panels installed and are convinced that they will 1. Increase the value of their property and 2. recover their costs in 4 years. In addition anyone who doesn't follow their example is a complete idiot and should be locked up.

I pointed out that 1. The main roof on my house faces north. The south facing roof has dormer windows and a gable end so fitting panels would be difficult and expensive. 2. The payback time would be 10-12 years and since I'm in my 70's, I would be better investing my cash elsewhere.
3. Any increase in property value (and that is debatable) would only be realised if you sold up after the payback period.

I would also point out that the N of Scotland is a lot different to the south of England when it comes to usable sunlight.

The bottom like is that your property has to be suitable and it will be many years before you see a profit. They are, IMO, playing at being 'green'.
Mike has basically the right idea and I have wondered about a panel array that would track the sun to give maximum power output.
 
Mike said:
There are no plans yet, Alligatorob, being an electrician, I got
to thinking about how it can be done, so I started studying the
subject, it was black magic to me at the time, but I don't give in
easily.

The strange thing about "Solar Power", that is available, in this
country, is that when they advertise their product, they will let
you know that it is one of the best systems on the market giving
28% output, in my eyes that is rubbish, so I tried my idea, and I
am consistently getting 90%+ this is from the panels, the problems
that the commercial people seem to have, is that when a panel is
shaded, or a bird dirties it, it stops producing electricity and starts
taking electricity from the other panels are still producing, this then
turns the panel into a heater.

So I suggest that you build your own system, if you are at all technical,
should you decide to do so, let me know and I will help you, with advice.

Mike.
Click to expand...
Mike - help me understand. You are getting 90% efficiency? Currently monocrystalline solar panels have the highest efficiency of all solar panels on the market with a rate of 20%-28% as you have said. But which solar panels are you using to get 90%? Wouldn't that make the nightly news?
 
Be sure to ask your insurance agent about it before installing rooftop solar. You may need coverage changes or a second policy.
 
dilettante said:
Be sure to ask your insurance agent about it before installing rooftop solar. You may need coverage changes or a second policy.
Click to expand...
Good point. Also, aren't permits required to connect to the grid? Here in So California, it requires an inspection according to strict installation and safety rules that are complex. For example, you have to provide a safety relay that disconnects your solar system from the grid if the grid goes down. This is a safety issue to prevent your system from electrocuting workers trying to fix and restore the wiring and controls for the grid.
This unfortunately prevents you from using your solar energy for power when the grid goes down. So, on a hot summer day when the grid is down, the sun is boiling and you would like to use your solar panels to power the Air Conditioner, it's not allowed (both physically and by law). However, I have read that if you have batteries for your system, then they can run the AC when the grid is down but that could be a rumor.
 
Sassycakes said:
We just received a call about getting SP for no charge to us
Click to expand...
Best fully check out that 'no charge'
We had the same offer
Turns out it'd cost us $50K usd


Capt Lightning said:
The payback time would be 10-12 years and since I'm in my 70's, I would be better investing my cash elsewhere.
Any increase in property value (and that is debatable) would only be realised if you sold up after the payback period.
Click to expand...
Yup
Told 'em thanks but no thanks

If I ever went solar, it'd be battery only
But, they've gotta improve those batteries
(their life and their cost)
 
We have a Son-in-Law who is an executive at a solar company....mostly commercial and industrial. He gave us an estimate, a couple of years ago, about installing a "whole house" system. Even at his costs, we would have paid almost $20K, and half the basement would be filled with batteries, due to the many days when we have cloudy weather. Given that we belong to a "rural co-op" with reasonable electric rates, it would have taken 12 to 15 years to "break even", at which point the panels and batteries might need to be replaced. It seemed hardly worth it.
 
I can't tell where things might go with this stuff down the road. But as far as I can tell it's another "rich man's toy" like EVs today.

Those with the money can afford to dive in, get government kickbacks, and in general enjoy things available until the masses have a chance to join the party... when all of the freebies mysteriously evaporate. Soon you run into "grid" issues out of nowhere that don't allow the newcomers to feed power upstream to get cash or lower utility bills like the fatcats who arrived first.
 
One of the youtube channels I follow, had a pricing for his solar array, with batteries, etc.


Note: He did almost all of the installation, etc.
 
OldEngineer said:
Mike - help me understand. You are getting 90% efficiency?
Click to expand...
I have no idea what kind of panels they are, I know not-a-lot
about solar, but I know about electrics and my ideas have
produced good returns, I will put a picture below.

Anybody thinking about solar energy, should forget about
selling to the grid, too much paper work and too much money
needed to get a system at least double of what you require,
keep off grid.

You can start with batteries and an inverter, plus a battery charger,
charge the battery during the day, from the electric supply, then
use your system in the evening, for lights and TV and maybe a small
heater, you will save money.

Output Percentage..jpg
This is a picture of a controller on my system, it was taken on a cloudy day
the solar panel is the middle 0.3A, the bottom is the output, it has an icon
of an electric light.

Mike.
 
Ah, what you seem to be suggesting is a sort of "off grid" system that you use as an alternative to mains supply. It still seems an expensive way to go unless you are completely off-grid. Lithium batteries, a charge controller and an inverter must cost a few bob on top of the panels. Even if you use stored electricity instead of the mains, you still have to pay a standing charge.
 
Capt Lightning said:
Lithium batteries, a charge controller and an inverter must cost a few bob on top of the panels. Even if you use stored electricity instead of the mains, you still have to pay a standing charge.
Click to expand...
I am using Lead acid batteries Capt Lightning, they are much
more stable, but as you say, expensive, you need Leisure ones,
they can take more recharges and not explode!

Yes, there is a standing daily charge to pay, because the suppliers,
upped my monthly payment, more than double, I changed all light
to LEDs, the saving is so great, they have cut my payment by £41
per month.

The government here has advised people to get torches, batteries
and candles, as there will be power cuts this winter.

I will be ready.

Mike.
 
If your utility charges average/below average electrical rates, solar may not help you unless you have a properly sited house.

We have solar (no battery backup; tied to the grid but under the old Net Zero Metering so we get paid retail rates for the electricity we send to the grid, rather than wholesale rates. This was when they were encouraging homeowners to put in solar by offering both federal and state rebates.

However, our utility, once one of the cheapest, is now one of the two most expensive electricity suppliers in the US. Since 2014 (we installed our system 2015) electricity rates have risen 92%. The utility has a proposal already before the state board to further increase rates another 30% PLUS a flat fee based on income (the first in the nation, and likely to be challenged in court).

When our system was first installed, our bill was about $11/mo for electricity. Last year it was $35/mo. I'll be billed again in January for our annual bill; I expect it to be in the $40-45/mo range.

For comparison purposes, the year before we installed solar, our electrical bill was averaging $130/mo., before all the rate increases that have occurred. Those made figuring out the payback into a moving target, but a rough calculation gave us 7-8 yr payback. The system is now essentially free, although a new inverter will be needed at some point. They're standard and it's a simple 'swap out, put in', according to tech reps.

It has been well worth it. And yes, it does make the house more salable. That is due to the lot location, which has a sun factor of 95/100. The next owner will probably find it worthwhile to install the newer, more efficient panels and a battery system. We plan to sell our home within the next 5 yrs and move into a senior living facility, so it isn't worth upgrading our current system for ourselves.
 
Capt Lightning said:
Ah, what you seem to be suggesting is a sort of "off grid" system that you use as an alternative to mains supply. It still seems an expensive way to go unless you are completely off-grid. Lithium batteries, a charge controller and an inverter must cost a few bob on top of the panels. Even if you use stored electricity instead of the mains, you still have to pay a standing charge.
Click to expand...

Mike said:
I have no idea what kind of panels they are, I know not-a-lot
about solar, but I know about electrics and my ideas have
produced good returns, I will put a picture below.

Anybody thinking about solar energy, should forget about
selling to the grid, too much paper work and too much money
needed to get a system at least double of what you require,
keep off grid.

You can start with batteries and an inverter, plus a battery charger,
charge the battery during the day, from the electric supply, then
use your system in the evening, for lights and TV and maybe a small
heater, you will save money.

View attachment 321132
This is a picture of a controller on my system, it was taken on a cloudy day
the solar panel is the middle 0.3A, the bottom is the output, it has an icon
of an electric light.

Mike.
Click to expand...
Mike, this picture is puzzling. What is the 0.5A measuring and what does the text say? The characters are too blurry. I think you might be mixing up solar panel efficiency (22-28%) with conversion subsystem (inverter, wiring, etc.) efficiency which is usually 95-98%. They measure different aspects of the system and can't be compared. (apples & oranges)
 
That is the 12 volt system, the battery, (top), is giving
0.5A, the middle, the Panel for that controller is giving
0.3A, the output from the 12 volt system is 64.7% efficient,
there are 6 panels 1,000 watts each and each one has its
own controller, the blurred words to the right are controller
settings, something that I am still learning as the instructions,
translated from Chinese to English are a bit strange.

Mike.
 
I thought solar panels were great if you were powering transistor radio. But I got some solar outdoor lights, and I was super impressed at how well they work.
One thing I heard on TV was that solar panels had about a 10 year life. Any comments about that?
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I thought solar panels were great if you were powering transistor radio. But I got some solar outdoor lights, and I was super impressed at how well they work.
One thing I heard on TV was that solar panels had about a 10 year life. Any comments about that?
Click to expand...
Well the low-end solar panels riving outdoor lights are usually lower cost items and not built to the same quality standards as larger scale systems.

So there are things like the inevitable water intrusion, and DC systems promote wiring corrosion. I've had to replace a string of white solar lights after 3 years. The "bulbs" had taken in too much moisture and had dimmed and begun to fail. The head unit with the solar panel was "ok" yet but not up to par with a new one. And I'd even taken pains to add sealing myself before installing the original string.

I haven't tried to locate better quality equivalents for comparison. But these cheapo things are not even up to the level of a 75 cent indoor light switch. I think they push the technology to provide a more impressive initial experience, with little or no thought to lifetime or repair. Most of the "car battery trickle charging" solar panels seem even less weather resistant.
 

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