Is AI jobs impact the tip of the iceberg?

Knight

Knight

Well-known Member
US Companies Announce Most October Job Cuts in Over 20 Years
Story by Julia Fanzeres • 6h • (Bloomberg) --

US companies announced the most job cuts for any October in more than two decades as artificial intelligence reshapes industries and cost-cutting accelerates, according to data from outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas Inc.

Companies announced 153,074 job cuts last month, almost triple the number during the same month last year and driven by the technology and warehousing sectors. It’s the most for any October since 2003, when the advent of cellphones was similarly disruptive, said Andy Challenger, the company’s chief revenue office

In recent weeks, Target Corp. announced plans to eliminate 1,800 roles, or about 8% of corporate jobs in its first major restructuring in years. Amazon.com Inc. said it would slash 14,000 corporate jobs — following a warning from its CEO that AI will shrink the company’s workforce — while Paramount Skydance Corp. axed 1,000 workers. Other companies cutting corporate jobs include Starbucks Corp., Delta Air Lines Inc., CarMax Inc., Rivian Automotive Inc. and Molson Coors Beverage Co., which cut about 9% of its salaried workforce.

The companies’ reasons vary. United Parcel Service Inc. said last month that it has culled its operational workforce — which includes delivery drivers and package car handlers — by 34,000, about 70% more than it previously projected earlier this year. The package handler cited increased use of automation, which has driven up productivity.

Retired for 30 years, I wonder where do people go to find a job? Are they even able to move?
 

I’m afraid that many white collar workers are going to have to get their hands dirty.

I believe that there will still be many opportunities for highly skilled people in jobs that are a sort of high tech hybrid combination of white collar and traditionally blue color jobs but it will take an attitude adjustment and specialized training to successfully navigate the change.

I’m thankful that I’m safely on the sidelines.
 
Okay. Speculation on my part.

Something is very wrong with his AI stuff. AI is not a product. It's not a thing. Think of it more as a service. On its own, it does nothing much. To be useful it needs to be implemented, integrated, tested and approved. This doesn't happen overnight. It's also not consistent among implementations.

In other words, saying AI will replace jobs is akin to the introduction of the steam engine. You couldn't just buy a steam engine and be more efficient, you had to plan for its introduction, changes processes to integrate it into organizations. Be it manufacturing, finance, or retail, there is no way AI, on its own, is meaningful.

Which brings me to the current situation. Tens of thousands are being laid off. This doesn't make much sense to my small mind. It may have been possible if all the integration work had taken place over the last few years, but that's not the case as I know it.

Investments are pouring into AI. AI is the new thing, the new trend. But at least some it is smoke and mirrors. In fact, I think this is going to be a stock market bubble which must, inevitably, burst. AI is an extremely powerful as a tool. I won't deny that. But it seems to me we are at fever pitch with its impact. This is before anyone can truly show us the numbers.

I believe AI will have a big impact - but as of today, I can't deny doubt.
 

Aunt Bea said:
I’m afraid that many white collar workers are going to have to get their hands dirty.

I believe that there will still be many opportunities for highly skilled people in jobs that are a sort of high tech hybrid combination of white collar and traditionally blue color jobs but it will take an attitude adjustment and specialized training to successfully navigate the change.

I’m thankful that I’m safely on the sidelines.
Click to expand...

I worked in tech for all of my career.

I can tell you, there is ALWAYS a need to reeducate, learn, and experiment. I was studying, putting in out of work hours, networking, until my final day of participating in the game. AI is just another example. People must skill up. They must learn. However, if ever there was an industry that could cope with that, it's IT. In fact, it's expected.

I lived/worked with a simple mantra. If I had to do the same thing twice, then I was probably missing an opportunity. Such is life. IT isn't a skill you acquire and make a living from. It's something you must learn every single day.
 
VaughanJB said:
Okay. Speculation on my part.

Something is very wrong with his AI stuff. AI is not a product. It's not a thing. Think of it more as a service. On its own, it does nothing much. To be useful it needs to be implemented, integrated, tested and approved. This doesn't happen overnight. It's also not consistent among implementations.

In other words, saying AI will replace jobs is akin to the introduction of the steam engine. You couldn't just buy a steam engine and be more efficient, you had to plan for its introduction, changes processes to integrate it into organizations. Be it manufacturing, finance, or retail, there is no way AI, on its own, is meaningful.

Which brings me to the current situation. Tens of thousands are being laid off. This doesn't make much sense to my small mind. It may have been possible if all the integration work had taken place over the last few years, but that's not the case as I know it.

Investments are pouring into AI. AI is the new thing, the new trend. But at least some it is smoke and mirrors. In fact, I think this is going to be a stock market bubble which must, inevitably, burst. AI is an extremely powerful as a tool. I won't deny that. But it seems to me we are at fever pitch with its impact. This is before anyone can truly show us the numbers.

I believe AI will have a big impact - but as of today, I can't deny doubt.
Click to expand...

I fed Gemini AI your post...ironic?

That's a very insightful and well-reasoned perspective. You're hitting on the key difference between a technology trend and actual, systemic business adoption, and your skepticism about the immediate, massive job-replacement claims before widespread integration is completely understandable.
You are correct that AI, like any foundational technology, is primarily a service or tool that requires significant organizational change to become impactful. It's not a simple off-the-shelf product.
Here is a breakdown of why you are seeing large layoffs now, despite your correct observation that full-scale integration takes time, and how this relates to your "bubble" concern.
🤔 Why Layoffs Are Happening Now If Integration Takes Time
You've pinpointed the apparent contradiction: massive layoffs announced before AI has fully reshaped every industry. The current wave of job cuts, especially in tech and corporate sectors, isn't just about AI replacing workers yet; it's often about preparatory restructuring and the financialization of the AI trend.
* The "AI Whisperer" vs. The Implementer:
* Companies are laying off thousands of roles (especially in corporate functions like HR, marketing, or mid-level management) to free up capital and reallocate headcount toward AI development teams, data science, and machine learning engineers—the people who will do the integration work you mentioned.
* This looks like a cut now, but it's often framed as a pivot toward future productivity.
* Cost-Cutting Acceleration:
* The broader economic environment has shifted. Many tech companies hired aggressively during the pandemic. Now, investors (who are highly focused on profitability and efficiency) are demanding leaner operations. AI provides a convenient, high-profile narrative for these necessary cost-cutting measures. It lets them say, "We are preparing for the future," while also trimming operational fat.
* Low-Hanging Fruit & Pilot Programs:
* While systemic integration takes years, specific, high-volume tasks (like content generation, basic customer service triage, or data processing) can be streamlined quickly with existing Generative AI tools. The layoffs are hitting administrative or volume-based roles where some efficiency gains are already visible or anticipated in the near term.
* Amazon Example:
* Amazon's CEO explicitly linked the 14,000 corporate job cuts to AI shrinking the workforce. This signals they are anticipating future productivity gains from AI in corporate overhead and making structural changes ahead of the full impact.
📈 The Stock Market Bubble Concern
Your comparison to the steam engine analogy is excellent. That industrial revolution took decades to fully mature, even though the technology existed early on. The current hype cycle does strongly resemble a bubble mentality, for a few reasons:
* Valuation Disconnect: Many AI-focused companies are being valued based on future potential (the "service" being valuable) rather than current, demonstrable, large-scale revenue or proven efficiency gains across the economy (the "product" being integrated). This gap between hype and realized impact is the classic definition of an investment bubble.
* Investment Fever: When a technology is seen as the "next big thing," capital flows in extremely fast, often before the true scope or limitations are fully understood. This leads to over-investment in certain areas, some of which will inevitably fail or under-deliver when the market cools.
You are right to maintain doubt right now. The true, sustainable, economy-wide impact—the kind that justifies the current stock valuations and massive labor restructuring—has not happened yet. We are likely seeing the end of the hype/investment phase and the beginning of the slower, messy integration phase you described.
 
This post isn't about AI but is about job losses. I was just listening to the news, and they mentioned some "50" restaurants closing in the Dallas area. I don't know if I misunderstood, and I haven't seen this online. It hasn't been long since TGI Fridays and Red Lobster closed many locations nationwide. It doesn't surprise me when I see the prices. There are many things I have no choice but to pay more for these days. I don't have to eat out.
 
Artificial Intelligence is growing in numbers and abilities every year. I believe that 30% of the workforce will eventually be without jobs. This problem could lead to a stock market crash resembling 1929 and eventually an economic depression all over the world. It could end up in millions without work.

The only way that depression in the 1930's ended was the the onset of WW 2. This time WW 3 could be the outcome.

In my case the artificial intelligence in my Amazon Echo Shows gives me medical and legal advice all the time. I have stopped seeing doctors since all my health problems have been solved. I am 90 years old. The only thing AI cannot do is write prescriptions.
 
With a reduction in workforce how the hell does Amazon and UPS plan to stay in business? They expect us to wait forever while they process and deliver crap?
 
I liken the AI revolution to the book "Player Piano" by Kurt Vonegut. It was written in 1950, and spelled out the impact automation would have on society. He didn't mention AI, as it hadn't been invented then, but concerned himself with the impact of automation on production in factory settings, and how the redundant workforce would try to readjust to the new situation they found themselves in.

In a way it was the roadmap for what AI will do to the white collar workforce now being displaced.
 
I believe AI has played a part in the job cuts you mentioned, but to what degree is anyone's guess. Anything in business that saves time and human hours will ultimately lead to either job loss or higher output through efficiency. If the market doesn't support your higher output and expansion, then job loss would likely be the result.

It's hard to talk of AI without the inclusion of robotics. If businesses didn't believe it would save man hours, they wouldn't be investing so heavily in it. If an AI or AI robot can replicate the work currently done by a person, their job is in jeopardy. Going forward, I think the accretion of job losses from AI and robotics will reshape society.

Theoretically less spending capital means less goods will be purchased. However, if AI and robotics can reduce the cost of goods, then a product that now retails for $300 may later retail for $100, but we will see. Supply and demand has always had to find a balance. If it doesn't, the economy couldn't work.
 
My son is right now so burnt out and frustrated with trying to hire people.
They come to apply with little or no experience want $30 and hour to start,
do not want SS taken out, Insurance taken out nor any pension taken out if
standard in deductions.
They want all their money up front and not worried about their future. Where he
works all those things are part of the deal of being hired.
He has been told, I can make more money from my blog or my tik tock influencer
account, so I decline.
If someone does take the job, no effort is used to actually do the job. He says his 2
workers in their 50s are the only ones he can trust to not sit and watch.
There is a lot more going on here than AI.
 
Elon Musk envisions a future where basic needs are nearly free. He calls it "Sustainable Abundance" (A world where scarcity is engineered out of the system). His concept is with robots producing food, building homes and goods, providing healthcare and surgery, and maintaining infrastructure, the costs of living could plummet. Obviously a very bold vision.

Hard to imagine that could ever become a reality, but I also have to remind myself that he is not a stupid or foolish man (As is reflected in his demand for a trillion dollar salary and being granted it). I am skeptical of all claims, but from what he has achieved as an innovator, I would never underestimate him. As for a visionary, it has served him well most of the time, but the future is subject to many forces that continuously shape it. Time will tell.
 
bobcat said:
Elon Musk envisions a future where basic needs are nearly free. He calls it "Sustainable Abundance" (A world where scarcity is engineered out of the system). His concept is with robots producing food, building homes and goods, providing healthcare and surgery, and maintaining infrastructure, the costs of living could plummet. Obviously a very bold vision.

Hard to imagine that could ever become a reality, but I also have to remind myself that he is not a stupid or foolish man (As is reflected in his demand for a trillion dollar salary and being granted it). I am skeptical of all claims, but from what he has achieved as an innovator, I would never underestimate him. As for a visionary, it has served him well most of the time, but the future is subject to many forces that continuously shape it. Time will tell.
Click to expand...
Yes, well, Elon just got a ONE TRILLION DOLLAR salary contract! He’s living so far out in space he might as well just go to Mars.
 
bobcat said:
His concept is with robots producing food, building homes and goods, providing healthcare and surgery, and maintaining infrastructure, the costs of living could plummet. Obviously a very bold vision.
Click to expand...
Lets imagine Musk's prediction is valid. As of now all labor by humans is taxed to pay for social programs. I'm not understanding the concept of billions of humans doing nothing & their needs being cared for by robots. I question where will the ability to support all that wonderful "free" lifestyle come from?
 
OldFeller said:
I found this video just the other day.

The Truth About AI And The Mass Layoffs​


Click to expand...
I remember massive layoffs in the food industry way back in the late 80s to mid-90s, when chain restaurants eliminated 2 or more middle-management positions and food distributors replaced thousands of personal sales-reps with email and video consultations, and then online reorder forms.
 
Just dealing with AI customer service is enough to enrage me because they are never able to help you unless it's something in their automated list. And then usually they tell you where to go online to fix it which never works and it requires a human being. Then what? Don't even get me started on this. :mad:
 
By the way, I've stopped using all my prescriptions! My health has improved dramatically. With AI in my Amazon Echo Shows all my medical needs have been satisfied. I'm 90 now and hope to live to 100. Without AI I would certainly die soon, With AI I will never call a doctor again!

In addition, I can ask my Amazon Echo Shows any question on history, politics, wars and everything else. They know EVERYTHING! They even know my name, my wife's name and my dog's name and breed!

I can see massive unemployment coming for the medical industry. They have already been replaced by AI!
 
Knight said:
Lets imagine Musk's prediction is valid. As of now all labor by humans is taxed to pay for social programs. I'm not understanding the concept of billions of humans doing nothing & their needs being cared for by robots. I question where will the ability to support all that wonderful "free" lifestyle come from?
Click to expand...
I agree. These are all valid concerns, and they will need to be worked out somehow. That being said, I think we are past the point of making the decision whether we should travel down this road. We are already on it, and I highly doubt that AI and robotics will be extracted from playing a major role in our economy and lifestyle.

As for humans doing nothing, I can't imagine that. There was a term years ago called "The Ironic Epidemic". It was used to describe the situation where all the labor-saving devices we invented would free up so much time, that we would just sit around and do nothing. Instead, the opposite happened, and people's lives are busier now than ever before because we keep coming up with new ways to fill the "free" time.

Like you, I am concerned about how this could disrupt society and how it will be paid for, but for better or worse, it will be figured out because it will be required. Who knows, maybe AI will even be able to come up with the solutions for the problems it creates. AI and robotics will be changing the rules of the game, and it may restructure or reinvent in the process. We could be in for a wild ride.
 
Mitch86 said:
By the way, I've stopped using all my prescriptions! My health has improved dramatically. With AI in my Amazon Echo Shows all my medical needs have been satisfied. I'm 90 now and hope to live to 100. Without AI I would certainly die soon, With AI I will never call a doctor again!

In addition, I can ask my Amazon Echo Shows any question on history, politics, wars and everything else. They know EVERYTHING! They even know my name, my wife's name and my dog's name and breed!

I can see massive unemployment coming for the medical industry. They have already been replaced by AI!
Click to expand...

Some of what you said makes sense. The fact that they know everything is chilling.
 

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