Is America a third world country?

OldOld said:
No. In the U.S., the doctors (or clinics,hospitals) won't tell you the price beforehand. When you go see a doctor, they make you sign a lot of papers, then after the treatment they send a bill to you(or to insurance company) and charge whatever price they want. The insurance companies usually have an agreement on fee schedule with the healthcare providers. You, as an individual consumer, wouldn't know if their price is reasonable or not.
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Sorry, I can't let this one go.

No healthcare provider charges whatever they want. Every service has a set price or price-range. Prices for a hospital stay depend on the hospital's costs of your care. Price of a medication is driven by the cost of it's chemical ingredients and the research, studies, and trials behind it. There are no arbitrary costs in medicine.
 

Murrmurr said:
Sorry, I can't let this one go.

No healthcare provider charges whatever they want. Every service has a set price or price-range. Prices for a hospital stay depend on the hospital's costs of your care. Price of a medication is driven by the cost of it's chemical ingredients and the research, studies, and trials behind it. There are no arbitrary costs in medicine.
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I can't let this go either. Yes, the price is set by the hospital or providers. Price of a medication or treatment is driven by the cost of it's chemical ingredients and the research, studies, and trials behind it.
**** Plus, the profit + administration add-on they want ****
And in most cases, ***** they don't tell you the price beforehand. *****
 
Quackers said:
Oh bloody 'ell (pardon me), it's all sounds so complicated (which I know benefits are anyway). It's such a shame you don't get free healthcare like we do.

Probably a daft question, what happens if I've no money, no insurance, no job and I get really sick ie treatment carrying on over a long period of time as in months/years, is there a cut off period for the benefit system paying?
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No hospital or public clinic can turn any patient away. They treat the person, and then seek payment from social services and hospital donors. If they have no success, they write it off.

Some hospitals will transfer a destitute patient to another hospital, but it has to be within a certain distance, usually 35 miles, and they can't transfer patients in immediate need.

Here's the thing; hospitals and clinics can be sued for causing death or additional harm. They don't like lawsuits.
 

Murrmurr said:
Hope it stays that way for you, Quackers.

Our federal legislative body has pitched national healthcare many times, but to avoid imposing a tax to fund it, those in favor want to be able to redistribute the social security and/or FICA taxes they already collect, which is basically robbing from the poor and elderly. They have discussed reducing military funds, but that isn't floating either.

To fund national healthcare, they're gonna have to create a new tax, and that's a very unpopular proposition.
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Understood.
 
OldOld said:
I can't let this go either. Yes, the price is set by the hospital or providers. And in most cases, ***** they don't tell you the price beforehand. *****
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That's true, they don't. That's because it tallies up according to needs that may come up, and because your liver doctor, for example, doesn't have your bone doctor's price sheet, and none of them have the lab's price sheet....and so on.
 
Murrmurr said:
Sorry, I can't let this one go.

No healthcare provider charges whatever they want. Every service has a set price or price-range. Prices for a hospital stay depend on the hospital's costs of your care. Price of a medication is driven by the cost of it's chemical ingredients and the research, studies, and trials behind it. There are no arbitrary costs in medicine.
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25 - 30% of America's healthcare costs are administrative. I consider that arbitrary, if not outright criminal.
 
Murrmurr said:
Hope it stays that way for you, Quackers.

Our federal legislative body has pitched national healthcare many times, but to avoid imposing a tax to fund it, those in favor want to be able to redistribute the social security and/or FICA taxes they already collect, which is basically robbing from the poor and elderly. They have discussed reducing military funds, but that isn't floating either.

To fund national healthcare, they're gonna have to create a new tax, and that's a very unpopular proposition.
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I don't think a new tax is necessary. Just make major corporations and billionaires pay their fair share in federal income taxes like they used to do before trickle down economics which never worked because nothing ever trickled down.
 
Murrmurr said:
That's true, they don't. That's because it tallies up according to needs that may come up, and because your liver doctor, for example, doesn't have your bone doctor's price sheet, and none of them have the lab's price sheet....and so on.
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They should come up with a list (or make an effort to do so). Don't you think? I suppose you are a loyal beliver of the American healthcare system and would defend it.
I would just ask, other countries can do it, why U S. can not? *** Universal healthcare.***
 
Babs2u said:
Thank you Holly. We are loaded with grifters. But that doesn't mean that all her points should be dismissed. It is obvious to the casual observer that the ultra rich are getting richer and the poor are paying for it. The plan is working.
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I am in no way dismissing all her points... we who live outside of the USA CAN see the wood for the trees.... that's not to say I don't think she's a grifter..I do....
 
Murrmurr said:
No hospital or public clinic can turn any patient away. They treat the person, and then seek payment from social services and hospital donors. If they have no success, they write it off.

Some hospitals will transfer a destitute patient to another hospital, but it has to be within a certain distance, usually 35 miles, and they can't transfer patients in immediate need.

Here's the thing; hospitals and clinics can be sued for causing death or additional harm. They don't like lawsuits.
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Thanks for explaining Murrmurr, understanding more now.
 
Murrmurr said:
No hospital or public clinic can turn any patient away. They treat the person, and then seek payment from social services and hospital donors. If they have no success, they write it off.
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You seem to forget one more option--
hospitals can and will pursuit the patients for payment until the patients go bankrupt.
 
OldOld said:
They should come up with a list (or make an effort to do so). Don't you think? I suppose you are a loyal beliver of the American healthcare system and would defend it.
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I'm not defending it, I'm explaining a little bit about it.

For example, the book that explains pricing is massive. Every office has their own. Doctors can just look the prices up on their computer systems now, which is handy because pricing does fluctuate, but it's still limited to their department, and not many doctors wade through it all. They leave that up to the billing department.

Even an auto mechanic can only give their customers an estimate, and they've got everything right there; the brake guy, the electrics guy, and so on. But one of them might find an issue someone else missed, right? Luckily, they can just call you while your car's in surgery, but still, you're only going to get an estimate before they start work.
 
I wouldn't have thought there is any doubt, America is a big continent with many countries who's wealth varies greatly.


Some parts of America are definitely third world you only have to look at the slums in Brazil and Argentina or even Mexico to know that.


North America I would have thought is not third world, certainly not Canada or the USA. (not sure how the Caribbean fits into America)
 
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Health: Blue Cross Blue Shield insurance costs + Dental and Medicare now are over $750 a month.
That doesn't include home insurance or Auto. Can one easily see my expensive thing in life are.

Insurances #1
Federal income taxes,
Real Estate Taxes.
Over 8% sales taxes.
Only break we get is no Il. Income Taxes for Elderly .... YET!
But the other taxes make up for that lil help. Of course, sell for taxes is an end all.
 
hollydolly said:
I am in no way dismissing all her points... we who live outside of the USA CAN see the wood for the trees.... that's not to say I don't think she's a grifter..I do....
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Sorry I wasn't clear. I was not speaking of you as a grifter or of dismissing her points. It was another poster I think that hinted at her motive and insincerity. I was saying she made some good points.
 
chic said:
I don't think a new tax is necessary. Just make major corporations and billionaires pay their fair share in federal income taxes like they used to do before trickle down economics which never worked because nothing ever trickled down.
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Personally maybe we should go back to the way it was. The problem I see also is that, it's been 35 years since Reagan got into office and started the trickle down economics. Has anybody come into office since then and tried to raise the taxes on the rich?

I'd be happy if they put it back to 65% for the top earners and break it down from there. The other problem is is that we've got people in Congress that have been there 30 40 even 60 years.

I don't know of any place in this good world that you can be in office for 60 years and still not have gotten anything done for the people you represent. And frankly from some of the attitudes of those in Congress, we're their servants they are not ours.
 
Disgustedman said:
Personally maybe we should go back to the way it was. The problem I see also is that, it's been 35 years since Reagan got into office and started the trickle down economics. Has anybody come into office since then and tried to raise the taxes on the rich?

I'd be happy if they put it back to 65% for the top earners and break it down from there. The other problem is is that we've got people in Congress that have been there 30 40 even 60 years.

I don't know of any place in this good world that you can be in office for 60 years and still not have gotten anything done for the people you represent. And frankly from some of the attitudes of those in Congress, we're their servants they are not ours.
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The Catholics threw out their nuns. The hospitals were where the Nuns worked billions of long hours in. Immediately insurances and high costs became run away.

The loss of our Catholic hospitals and Nuns have driven stuff where it was planned to go.
 
Murrmurr said:
I'm not defending it, I'm explaining a little bit about it.

For example, the book that explains pricing is massive. Every office has their own. Doctors can just look the prices up on their computer systems now, which is handy because pricing does fluctuate, but it's still limited to their department, and not many doctors wade through it all. They leave that up to the billing department.

Even an auto mechanic can only give their customers an estimate, and they've got everything right there; the brake guy, the electrics guy, and so on. But one of them might find an issue someone else missed, right? Luckily, they can just call you while your car's in surgery, but still, you're only going to get an estimate before they start work.
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LPN's biggest thing is time doing paper work. Dr's don't do crap.
 

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