Is prison too harsh a sentence for aborting a child almost full term ?

Why have laws if they aren't enforced? If the law says she deserves prison, so be it. The real question should be...is it a just law?

Speaking of laws, there are laws against animal abuse and there are laws against the abuse of a corps. Don't you think a fetus deserves lawful protection too from the ultimate in abuse?
 

Nathan said:
People seldom "get" the message, especially when under emotional duress.



A non-custodial sentence would suffice, save the expensive prison accommodations for the violent offenders.
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hmmmm... I dunno about not getting the message.. I think if you know that murder will get you jailed, there's less chance of you doing it.... so there's an argument to be put forward for a prison sentence as punishment for anything at all ..really...

The judge in this instance used an old case from some years ago where in a simialr situation where a woman aborted her child over the 24 week cut off time.... and was imprisoned for 8 years , reduced to 3 and a half on appeal.. as yardstick for this case.

Personally I am very pro.. ''a woman's body is her choice , and hers alone'', and she should be able to take control of what happens to it. ..but that also comes with a caveat in my own personal opinion.. that whatever you do to your body should not affect another human being. There's an argument also that a foetus is not human.. ...however at 34 weeks. I would say that, it is.. and as a mother herself of 3 children, she would be well aware of this..

However I can't see how a prison sentence will be of benefit to her, or her children... or society generally ...
 

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Legally, she is guilty of ending her pregnancy being 32 weeks pregnant. So, if she aborted the pregnancy at 31 weeks and 6 days, she would not be legally guilty. The idea of setting up some arbitrary cutoff date for legally ending a pregnancy is ridiculous. Today, science can just about enable life to grow from a one celled organism to birth, so where along this process is cut off point? While we can make situations "legal or illegal", the hard fact is the until birth the fetus is hers. We haven't solved the problem of whose rights trump the other, fetus or mother?
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Legally, she is guilty of ending her pregnancy being 32 weeks pregnant. So, if she aborted the pregnancy at 31 weeks and 6 days, she would not be legally guilty. The idea of setting up some arbitrary cutoff date for legally ending a pregnancy is ridiculous. Today, science can just about enable life to grow from a one celled organism to birth, so where along this process is cut off point? While we can make situations "legal or illegal", the hard fact is the until birth the fetus is hers. We haven't solved the problem of whose rights trump the other, fetus or mother?
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34 weeks....
 
As a student nurse, I had to attend a teenage pregnancy clinic in Wilkes Barre, Pa, which is a very small city. These were unwed kids. I figured what 5- 10 kids? There were over 100, and none over 16, in this dinky little town. I had a list of questions I had to ask the girls. One was "what do you want to do". When a pregnant 13 year old says, " I want to go back and finish the 8th grade". That floors you. It's nice to have laws and religious or political views, but it comes down to this- people's lives, both the mothers and their babies. Do we have the right to interfere, and who's rights are the right rights?
 
When I first read the title, I thought this was going to be a very young woman. But it's not. She had at least 3 pregnancies and knew how things go. At that point, I would think having the kids and giving it up for adoption would have beent the best choice. I don't know how adoption laws are in the UK. Here they are pretty easy.

My former boss adopted a handicapped child the parents stated in the hospital they did not want right after she was born. My former boss said even her last name was changed to theirs right on the birth certificate. Unfortunately the little girl didn't live past 3.

Question 1, no. She should have gone to term at that point. But this is only my opinion when I have no power over such a situation and for what it's worth.

Question 2, no. Her kids will suffer. I don't see a message sent. People will continue to make poor decisions when they feel they are in crisis.
 
Devi said:
The question is not "what is the law" but whether that ought to be the law.
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From a practical standpoint, it's about the law, and legality trumps personal ethics. Do I think it should be a law? No, absolutely not, but that's my personal opinion, and my opinion makes no difference in a court of law. In the US, some states are planning on coming down hard on women who abort. Others have certain limitations, but don't have prison sentences. Women here must be mindful of what state they live in if considering abortion at any time. And I think the new court has yet to decide whether it should be legal in any state.
 
1.. was she within her rights to end this pregnancy after 24 weeks...

I'm pro women's choice but timing & circumstance also play a role. There is a time frame for good reason that society has determined as reasonable. According to the article IMO she exceeded the "right" to terminate.




and 2... should she have been imprisoned ? ( you can answer both or just one of the questions if you prefer)

Not only imprisoned but IMO with the sentence of pre meditated murder.

That as a message to deter others from late term abortion that viable life in the womb has meaning.
 
hollydolly said:
try not to make this political please... but In your opinion.. is a 2 year prison sentence given to a Mother of 3 who aborted a baby at between 32 and 34 weeks too harsh ?

Given that 40 weeks is considered full term, would you think this was tantamount to manslaughter/ murder..?

Back story in the news today... The woman was pregnant by another man , not her partner


A woman has been jailed for more than two years for taking abortion pills after the legal cut-off time while rules were relaxed during lockdown.

Carla Foster, a 44-year-old mother of three, took abortion-inducing drugs when she was between 32 and 34 weeks pregnant.

She claimed she felt too “embarrassed” to see a doctor after becoming pregnant in 2019 and that she did not know how far along she was.

At Stoke-on-Trent Crown Court on Monday, prosecutors outlined how she made several internet searches between February and May 2020, including “how to lose a baby at six months” and “how to hide a pregnancy bump”.

The then Health Secretary Matt Hancock approved a change to abortion rules on March 30 2020 allowing services to prescribe and deliver pills over the phone.

Women were previously required to attend a clinic for an in-person appointment before taking the pills at home.

Three and a half weeks later after this change, Foster searched online: “I need to have an abortion but I’m past 24 weeks” - the legal limit for abortions unless in extreme circumstances.

​

She lied to a nurse practitioner from the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS) during a phone call 12 days later, convincing them she was just seven weeks pregnant.

The drugs mifepristone and misoprostol were then sent to her home address.

She took mifepristone on May 9, and misoprostol two days later.

That evening while making a 999 call to say she was in labour, she suffered a miscarriage and her daughter Lily was born stillborn.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/12/carla-foster-abortion-pill-legal-limit-jailed-lockdown/

I'm asking this question here on the forum.. because Quote'' Before her sentencing, a letter from the heads of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, the Royal College of Midwives and other health bodies had urged for a non-custodial sentence, warning her imprisonment would “deter other women from accessing telemedical abortion service” or being “open and honest with medical professionals”.

Chiara Capraro, women’s human rights programme director at Amnesty International UK, said: “It is shocking - and quite frankly terrifying - that in 2023 a woman in the UK has been sentenced to jail because of a law dating back to 1861.

“Access to abortion is essential healthcare and should be managed as such. This is a tremendously sad story and underscores the desperate need for legal reform in relation to reproductive health.

Clare Murphy, the chief executive of BPAS, said: “We are shocked and appalled by the decision to sentence a mother of three to 28 months in prison for using abortion pills to end her own pregnancy.

“No woman can ever go through this again. In their sentencing remarks, the judge made it that women will only be protected from prosecution if MPs bring forward legal change.

what's your views...

1.. was she within her rights to end this pregnancy after 24 weeks... and 2... should she have been imprisoned ? ( you can answer both or just one of the questions if you prefer)
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It is a sad case and I really cannot imagine the pain and anguish she endured. I don't know what to think.
 
Rose65 said:
It is a sad case and I really cannot imagine the pain and anguish she endured. I don't know what to think.
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I suspect her pain & anguish came from fear of a lengthy jail sentence. Planning & using the new law to call for the meds to abort an 8 month viable fetus IMO constitutes premediated murder.

What would you think if the "father" punched her in the stomach enough to kill the 8 month old fetus?
 
I feel that unless the pregnancy is deemed to either kill the mother or the baby will suffer and then die that abortion for convenience should be capped at 20 weeks. That’s enough time to decide you don’t want a baby. After that give the baby up for adoption.
 
Lotta bad decisions going on here. This wasn’t just a clump of cells. It was a baby. if a woman that far along had a miscarriage it would be considered a tragedy. And a death of a child. As to the prison sentence, I’m not sure how it’s good for anyone. I doubt it will make anyone involved make better decisions in future. Pretty sucky situation all the way around.
 
ohioboy said:
Disagree. If a pregnant women smokes crack and the baby is born addicted to crack and suffers seizures and withdraw episodes after birth, she said be charged for it.
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I understand and certainly agree that the woman should be charged with the illegal drug use, and somehow face liability for bringing a baby into existence that requires extensive medical care. Not the same as abortion though.
 
hollydolly said:
Does anyone think by imprisoning her, a message is being sent to other women that this will not be accepted....?

For me I feel that IS the message.. and for me.. she did very wrong, having the abortion 6 weeks before her due date..I feel she knew what she was doing.. but prison ?.. I'm not so sure ... however what alternative punishment could have been given which would dissuade others from doing the same ?
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I'm afraid no thought was given to this poor little unborn child. Surely she could have waited until it was full term and then have it adopted out? Sending her to prison will not deter other women doing the same thing. She should be given a sentence, but I don't know the law, so can't comment.
 
In answer to #1, she wasn't within her right as she knew she was beyond the legal number of weeks, whether you agree with the law or not.

For #2, yes on the sentence. I believe there was enough evidence to show she had the willful intent to break that law. She researched, planned & thought it out before acting. Also, the sentence was based on precedence that was set in a similar prior case.

As far as the other three children, they may be better off with someone else other than her. It makes you wonder how she treated them considering what she did to a 32-34 week fetus.
 

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