Is The Medical System Broken?

Vida May said:
Really, I had not thought of that and I know movies mess up the story line. When it comes to novels like "Time Machine" that really matters. Thank you. Now I have to buy the book and read it. I sure hope I can encourage a great-grandson to read the book. What if "Time Machine" and The Brave New World" were on high school reading lists and they had teachers who helped them think about what they were reading. This subject should become its own thread.
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I think we easily fall into the trap of thinking we modern humans are "all that."

As far back as we can follow literature there are lessons for us. Probably further back than we've uncovered the records of, not to mention word of mouth and the lessons contained within myth.
 

The drug infested medical cartel has always been broken from the start, and it keeps getting worse.

dilettante said:
I think H. G. Wells' "Time Machine" might be closer to what happens. But stick to the book: Both well-known film adaptations obscured the point by making the urbanites into humanlike tragic Eloi and cast the workers into monstrous Morlocks.
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Personally I feel the Morlocks are descendants of the ultra rich Billionaire Puppeters, i.e. Oprah Winfrey, Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Bezos, Bloomberg etc. The list of them continuing to do this goes on and on. All of them have been building large underground networks, even on Maui. Yikes, doesn't Maui have a high water table? But they're doing it anyway. I haven't heard of any of the poor working class building huge underground homes. The Morlocks in the time machine are the "ruling class" that run everything, and the Eloi are all of the rest of us.
 
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Just another sickening negative symptom of excessive homo sapien OVERPOPULATION in an economic oriented materialistic world of widening haves and have nots, led by Wall Street real estate and financial corporations and warmongering neocons using their puppet politicians and news media, embracing the insanity of never ending growth, development, and warring.

...In your head,
in your head they are dying
In your head
In your head
Zombie, zombie, zombie,
ei, ei
What's in your head?
In your head
Zombie, zombie, zombie
ei, ei, ei, oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh ei ei oh...
 
This thread, like many threads, seemed to drift all over. The subject was about if our medical system is broken.

Nope.

The medical system works excellently-for the very rich, or politicians, or actors, or anyone in the upper class. While I can only speak for the USA, I assume the King of England doesn’t wait 6 months to see a doctor. That Putin is well cared for, as are all dictators.

Back to the USA, The medical system also works fine for the upper middle class, and the middle class; those with jobs which come with medical plans. Surprisingly it works well for a majority of the very poor; those with both Medicare and Medicaid. Even the homeless can walk into any hospital and get seen.

It works well for disabled veterans; better in some places, than others. Medical care is free for those with 50% disability and above.

In rural communities, it does not work well because hospitals, doctors, and nurses etc. don’t choose to live rural. If you do, than that was your lifestyle choice and your problem.

In Utah, we have primary care doctors w/appointments, doctors via video chat, walk in clinics, and hospital ERs. The problem isn’t a lack of medical resources, it’s the stupidity of patients. People, with colds, a cut finger, a broken toe who go to the ER, clogging it up. Our hospitals triage. Mr broken toe is going to wait a long time. Mrs chest pain is not.

Specialists are an issue. There is often a long waiting time for specialists. It’s over dramatic to say you are going to die while waiting for a specialists. That would happen only if you are too stubborn to go back to a different medical source, such as the ER if you were getting sicker.

If you were getting sicker, went to the ER, waited 8 hours or 8 days, eventually you would be seen and receive the appropriate medical treatment, and probably not die unless death was your destination despite the best medical care. People do have to die.

If you have such a sense of entitlement that you can not be bothered to wait in an ER, and choose to go home instead, well, that’s your decision. If you make that decision, then you are not sick enough to be in an ER anyway. IMO.

Medical personnel are not heroes. They are workers, like everyone else, and in it to make money. They made a LOT of money during Covid, with those extra shifts. They’ve got nothing to complain about.
 
John cycling said:
The drug infested medical cartel has always been broken from the start, and it keeps getting worse.


Personally I feel the Morlocks are descendants of the ultra rich Billionaire Puppeters, i.e. Oprah Winfrey, Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Bloomberg etc. The list of them continuing to do this goes on and on. All of them have been building large underground networks, even on Maui. Yikes, doesn't Maui have a high water table? But they're doing it anyway. I haven't heard of any of the poor working class building huge underground homes. The Morlocks in the time machine are the "ruling class" that run everything, and the Eloi are all of the rest of us.
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What are you talking about? The thread is not about building underground homes. Have you had your cognitive abilities checked recently? Maybe you should see, hmm, a doctor 😂
 
dilettante said:
How unfair of a generation to take a free ride, neither building nor contributing anything to the system! So just suck it up and survive or die?

Or could it be that government mismanagement and graft and political agendas have sucked the system dry of resources? Gosh, where did all of the money pumped into the system go?


What do you suggest? Mass suicide of a generation? Time machines so they can go back and abort themselves?

Have they made no economic and social contributions? Birthed and raised no children? Paid no taxes, performed no public service, and stayed at home with parents smoking dope and playing video games?

I must be missing the point.


They didn't support their kids? Built no roads nor covered disasters or sent resources into parts of the world with less?

Does "other responsibilities" mean funding the fighting of endless wars, including the proxy wars going on today?
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dilettante said:
How unfair of a generation to take a free ride, neither building nor contributing anything to the system! So just suck it up and survive or die?
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I realize that in my country, there are people who would fit that negative description. It seems like all countries have slackers, layabouts & criminals. All the people I've considered friends have worked for a living at something legal. Some have started and maintained businesses, and have had employees. We've paid taxes and supported our kids into adulthood.
dilettante said:
What do you suggest? Mass suicide of a generation? Time machines so they can go back and abort themselves?

They didn't support their kids? Built no roads nor covered disasters or sent resources into parts of the world with less?

Does "other responsibilities" mean funding the fighting of endless wars, including the proxy wars going on today?
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There's not much we can do about the past, right? I believe societies, and citizens, should to learn from their pasts. I'm not a commentator with tremendous knowledge of social systems and international history, so I don't proclaim deeply-held opinions concerning societies in the world. I'm just one Canadian who posted my viewpoint. But no, I don't advise the mass suicide of a generation.
 
In this area we don’t seem to have a shortage of quality medical care.

IMO our expectations for easy inexpensive access to quality medical care along with the expectation of perfect outcomes may be out of line.

In the 60s before Medicare my grandmother had what was known as a major medical policy with a high dollar deductible that only covered catastrophic events, everything else was out of pocket.

In those days it was much more common to see people living with major health problems like cataracts, amputations due to diabetes, etc… that are relatively uncommon today.

My biggest concern over our healthcare system is the cost. I’ve read that healthcare premiums for employer paid family plans is now at $25,000.00/employee.

No matter who is paying the bills I’m not sure that any of this is sustainable and yet we continue to expect more.
 
David777 said:
Just another sickening negative symptom of excessive homo sapien OVERPOPULATION in an economic oriented materialistic world of widening haves and have nots, led by Wall Street real estate and financial corporations and warmongering neocons using their puppet politicians and news media, embracing the insanity of never ending growth, development, and warring.
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Er, isn't Silicon Valley one of the wealthiest areas in the country? As well as the home of Raytheon and countless other dealers in mass destruction?

Pretty high horse to be issuing morality judgements. It's practically a neocon shrine! Full of exactly the puppeteers pulling those strings.
 
I think overall our medical system works pretty well, although treatment for certain conditions and even the cost of having a baby can get extremely expensive. I was fairly happy with my former insurance provider when I was working and I'm thrilled with Medicare. But then I don't have any major medical conditions (right now).

One current kink in the system is the Private Equity firms that are buying up hospitals with investors that are sucking the money out of them, then closing them. I see more and more articles about hospitals closing in more rural areas, which is an issue for many folks as they no longer live close to one.

Even my own local hospital in Dallas keeps chipping away at their services. I was going for physical therapy for arthritis in my shoulders. I went for few weeks and was getting better. Then I was called to say they were eliminating the physical therapy unit.

My doctor, whom I trust implicitly, has been practicing for years. He is none too happy about the new management and all the restrictions that have been placed on him. When I enrolled in Medicare, he was listed as a provider but there was no way to choose him on their site. I had to call Medicare and have them "manually override" something in their system so I could select him. He seemed to think they were trying to move him further down the list so I would choose someone they preferred.

Hubby went to medical school and is qualified to be a Medical Assistant but because of the politics and bureaucracy in the system he chose not to pursue it.
 
Nationally, we have a good medical system. The issue is cost. Too many middlemen, and the wrong incentives for providers. They are paid to treat sick people instead of being paid to make sure people stay healthy.

I think there are too few medical schools, as well. Demand outstrips supply.
 
This is in the news today...

Patients and employers accuse not-for-profit Indiana hospital of price gouging
Lawmakers and residents speak out against Parkview after the Guardian investigated the hospital chain for high costs

Last fall, Doug Allen, the president of a plastic molding firm in Brimfield, Indiana, was forced into a difficult decision.

Since 2007, the costs of his employees’ health insurance had shot up around 275%, expenditures that were eating into his profit margins and far outpacing the rate of inflation, according to his records. But Allen didn’t blame his small local insurer.

When his employees needed medical care, they usually turned to Parkview Health, a hospital chain that had swallowed up many of the once independent doctors’ offices and hospitals in his stretch of north-eastern Indiana. With this growing market power, the Fort Wayne-based system had pushed health insurance companies to agree to some of the highest hospital prices in the country– increases which Allen felt were routinely being dumped onto him.

Allen gave them a raise so they could buy coverage through the US Affordable Care Act’s government-regulated insurance exchange. Their new insurance is not as good, he admitted, but he said he couldn’t find a cheaper option. Healthcare plans that work for his employees, he said, now effectively have to include Parkview facilities.

“We are pretty much held hostage by where we can go,” Allen said of Parkview’s regional constellation of hospitals and affiliated doctors’ offices. “There’s only one supplier in the whole area.”

The small business owner is one of a chorus of employers, patients and political leaders in Indiana speaking out against Parkview Health in the wake of a Guardian investigation released last week that documented how the chain’s aggressive consolidation had helped it to steer patients into expensive care options, secure high prices from insurance companies in negotiations behind closed doors and become the region’s largest employer.

Parkview’s growth is an example of a larger phenomenon of hospital consolidation in recent decades. Academics have consistently found that when hospitals merge, they drive up prices. And emerging research suggests that these high prices may be choking the potential of other businesses, forcing local employers to cut back on payroll and staffing.
Patients and employers accuse not-for-profit Indiana hospital of price gouging

"Non-profit" hospitals, it seems, are allowed to use their profits to buy up their competition. They also pay their CEOs 10s of millions of dollars a year in compensation. The only difference between a non-profit and a for-profit hospital is: non-profits don't have shareholders.
 
Irishdude said:
Nationally, we have a good medical system. The issue is cost. Too many middlemen, and the wrong incentives for providers. They are paid to treat sick people instead of being paid to make sure people stay healthy.

I think there are too few medical schools, as well. Demand outstrips supply.
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I agree. My son in his 50s, through his employer's Health Insurance, he went for 'on-line' Optometrist who told him to send a picture of 'Pink-eyes,' and from there my son got rx nearby CVS and got completed got better after one-week special eye-drop regimen and another time, he told me he went 'on-line' GP for 'lab-test' and one med and promptly he received rx. Both, he told me only one phone-call to connect drs., whose address is not in our area, ... seems all way to northern Eastern, he lives in central Eastern. He said only $20 co-pay each time.
I'm an elderly person with Medicare and BCBS, on the otherhand I need to see all of drs. in person, GP, Neurologist and Orthro dr. for several health issues. Both of EKG, MRI are most costly procedures, however BCBS slashed some of costs. Then, I have zero payment for all Drs. along with any procedures.
Most expensive in this area/big city is hospital-stay, $1,000 per night, I heard from a friend of mine.
 
Amanda76 said:
Most expensive in this area/big city is hospital-stay, $1,000 per night, I heard from a friend of mine.
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I too have Medicare along with a BCBS Advantage Plan.

My cost for hospital stays is capped at a hefty $440.00/day with an annual out of pocket of $8,850.00/calendar year.

The annual out of pocket is in addition to the $2,000.00/calendar year for prescription drugs.

If you are faced with a hospital stay ask for and file a request for financial assistance.

Depending on your situation it may completely cover or waive these out of pocket amounts.
 
HermitHogan said:
So, what's the answer to the worker shortage? Immigrants? Robots?
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Who hasn’t called a business and found their call handled or transferred by what amounts to an electronic robot?
With the advent of AI the growing use of physical robots seems increasingly likely. Pretty soon we will have what amounts to a robot driving our car for us. And Tesla’s Optimus uses a human form, very human in appearance and capable of performing routine human tasks. That is just the beginning.
 
Our city hospital's emergency room has an insane wait. One night my (late) husband and I waited for what was easily 12 hours before they took him into a cubby. I remember feeling very ill a few times over the decades, but not wanting to go the ER for the very reason you state....couldn't imagine waiting so long feeling as I was feeling.

I also think our medical system relies too much on prescribing drugs and not addressing the root causes of the problems by discussing preventive maintenance with patients. Of course part of the responsibility lies with the patients, who should be proactive and ask questions. But I think doctors are incentivized by "big pharma". Years ago, Dr. Gary Null did a radio broadcast on that issue. With that said, I feel blessed because I have wonderful doctors who take as much time as I need and discuss options. You are right, it's terrible that people have to wait so long to get appointments, especially with specialists.

The other issues you mentioned that the world is facing are both heartbreaking and concerning. I feel for all of us if things continue as they are.
 
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Aneeda72 said:
This thread, like many threads, seemed to drift all over. The subject was about if our medical system is broken.

Nope.

The medical system works excellently-for the very rich, or politicians, or actors, or anyone in the upper class. While I can only speak for the USA, I assume the King of England doesn’t wait 6 months to see a doctor. That Putin is well cared for, as are all dictators.

Back to the USA, The medical system also works fine for the upper middle class, and the middle class; those with jobs which come with medical plans. Surprisingly it works well for a majority of the very poor; those with both Medicare and Medicaid. Even the homeless can walk into any hospital and get seen.

It works well for disabled veterans; better in some places, than others. Medical care is free for those with 50% disability and above.

In rural communities, it does not work well because hospitals, doctors, and nurses etc. don’t choose to live rural. If you do, than that was your lifestyle choice and your problem.

In Utah, we have primary care doctors w/appointments, doctors via video chat, walk in clinics, and hospital ERs. The problem isn’t a lack of medical resources, it’s the stupidity of patients. People, with colds, a cut finger, a broken toe who go to the ER, clogging it up. Our hospitals triage. Mr broken toe is going to wait a long time. Mrs chest pain is not.

Specialists are an issue. There is often a long waiting time for specialists. It’s over dramatic to say you are going to die while waiting for a specialists. That would happen only if you are too stubborn to go back to a different medical source, such as the ER if you were getting sicker.

If you were getting sicker, went to the ER, waited 8 hours or 8 days, eventually you would be seen and receive the appropriate medical treatment, and probably not die unless death was your destination despite the best medical care. People do have to die.

If you have such a sense of entitlement that you can not be bothered to wait in an ER, and choose to go home instead, well, that’s your decision. If you make that decision, then you are not sick enough to be in an ER anyway. IMO.

Medical personnel are not heroes. They are workers, like everyone else, and in it to make money. They made a LOT of money during Covid, with those extra shifts. They’ve got nothing to complain about.
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Actually, GP's did not make a lot of money during Covid. My younger brother who is a GP, because of social distancing at the time, was required to deal with medical problems on the phone or with a zoom apt. He was paid half of what an in-person apt. would cost per hour. He did see some patients in-person of course, as some medical issues cannot be fully examined on the phone or in a zoom apt.

And also I don't think unless you know someone who is a doctor personally, how much work they actually do. My brother would work during the day seeing patients, but more often than not, he stays at the office until 11:00 pm, sometimes midnight to complete his paperwork. Also doctors have additional costs, once they are doctors, for example malpractice insurance, etc.

And again, do not generalize please, as my younger brother did not become a family doctor because he's in it for the money. He actually has Diabetes Type 1 and has had to take insulin every day of his life. He specializes in diabetic care for many of his patients. This is why he wanted to become a doctor.
 

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