Is The Medical System Broken?

[gruntlabor]

I think you have it upside down. It isn't overpopulation but demographic collapse, the very opposite thing, which has put us into trouble.

So few children are being born and have been for decades now that the population is aging. We have large numbers in and entering retirement and a shrinking population to have new children, work, pay taxes, pay into retirement systems and health care, and on and on.

This is a serious problem because once the trend began and ran for a decade there is no going back. Less kids have even less kids and then even less than that.

About all we can do now is slow the trend. I don't see it starting to bounce back until a deep collapse though.


Information about this has been readily available for three decades now. However it doesn't fit the narrative of the selfish, gets rejected out of hand, and weird conscience-salving fictions about a "population explosion" that never was are gobbled with a spoon.

Demographers were aghast when the butterfly fancier Paul Ehrlich trotted out his faux-fact moneymaker "The Population Bomb" in 1968. They'd already plotted the end out by looking at actual data. They saw pretty closely what could happen and they knew all too well its cause.


In any case we're here now. But the problem is not overpopulation. Instead the opposite has occurred. Why do you think the West has imported so many doctors?

We've caused a scarcity and we're going to feel it elsewhere too.

There will be an acute shortage of labor in all sectors except those dominated by the elite.

 

[Vida May]

Or could it be that government mismanagement and graft and political agendas have sucked the system dry of resources? Gosh, where did all of the money pumped into the system go?

Oh my, I hope you are not as hostile as I feel you are.

I studied gerontology when it was a new subject for colleges. No one was thinking about our aging population as we do today, not even the "experts" and professors. We didn't all know about Alzheimer's disease or that the world needed pads and disposable underwear for adults who can't control their bodily functions. We didn't know which drug companies to invest in because they were about to make millions of dollars for a new drug that all at once was in high demand.

We did not know President Kennedy was ahead of his time when he supported the Older Americans Act. That was the beginning of realizing our world was changing. Populations around the world were aging and this came with huge demands for products and services. Not only did long-lived people increase, but we also threw the women who are the support system of all civilizations, out of their homes and into the "workforce". Women no longer do it all for free. Daughters are not at home with time to care for aging parents.

Whoops, I think I am ranting. I know my blood has gone up and my heart is pounding. Sorry, but blaming the government for what happened and our present struggle to adjust to a new reality screams a lack of information and thought.

 

[gruntlabor]

Sure the world is over populated but a lot of the "idiots" on this planet are more interested in some "Diddly" guy or that Taylor Swift than thinking about global warming or the war in Europe or the middle east.

If you think Diddly or Swift is the real "cat's meow " then your part of the global problem.

I think rather that you are part of the landscape.

 

[HoneyNut]

I think doctors must not be spread equally over the country, I didn't have problems getting to see them in Colorado, Nebraska, or Maryland. Though, since I lived in rural areas in Colorado and Nebraska I virtually always had to travel to the city areas to see them (except for mammograms because there was a traveling mammogram bus that came out to rural towns).

Maybe we need more traveling services like we have for mammograms?

ETA - when I was traveling and needed a doctor for my foot while I was in Boston I could not get an appointment with any orthopedist within the 4 weeks that I was there, so I had to see a podiatrist instead, but that worked out okay.

 

[gruntlabor]

In the united states if you REQUiRED people to fill out advance directives on their 70th birthday you would reduce costs for care that has “no vertical payback”…ie you stopped breathing and your heart stopped and you have terminal cancer…do we REALLY need to run that code?? We need to make education to become a doctor free…AFTER that doctor has passed their respective boards.

... and if we REQUIRED people to cease and desist all sexual behavior we would reduce costs for STD care.
... or if we REQUIRED people to take a kill-pill at age 66 we would reduce costs for elder care.

 

[dilettante]

Whoops, I think I am ranting.

Rant away!

I had no idea that humans only recently evolved to the point of requiring excretion. How much easier it must have been when the old folks could just hold it all in!

I'm not praising the current medical system, I've just described some reasons why things got bad. We are demanding more of health care than ever, societies across the world have opted for extinction rather than natural growth. And yes, part and parcel of that is a distortion of biological roles, the family unit, extended family, and community.

We don't have enough young people coming into the system to sustain elders before they... fall off the top. It may prove hard enough for them to keep the lights on for themselves, and they have an even tougher struggle replacing themselves with new children. Birth rates continue to plummet.

Pissing away money on foreigners is hard enough, but pissing it away on proxy wars in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa?

 

[HermitHogan]

It seems there is a worker shortage in all realms of our labor market including the healthcare sector. Supply and demand of labor is driving up wages. There's also a shortage of housing, which is driving up the cost of housing.

Part of the problem in the healthcare sector is the number of babyboomers retiring, which is reducing the supply of healthcare workers but increasing the demand, since older folks have more ailments.

The high cost of housing is causing people to put off having children or not having as many children as they would otherwise, which will continue to contribute to the worker shortage.

So, what's the answer to the worker shortage? Immigrants? Robots?

 

[Vida May]

Global overpopulation is one genuine issue.

Another issue is the outcome of the Post-War-baby-boom wherein a lot of kids were born (North America presents an example) from 1946 to about 1960. I have a friend who, over two stretches of government service, was a member of the legislature (MLA) in British Columbia. What he's said is that, with Boomers becoming elders, the government's efforts to maintain the province's health-care system has reduced the amount of money that could be allocated to other responsibilities of government.

Support and services for young families & their kids (not to mention roads, disaster relief, etc) are obviously among these other responsibilities.

Thanks, I forgot about the Baby Boomers being a bulge in our demographics.

I am not sure those services you mentioned were always government responsibility. That was not government responsibility in the US. The government sure was not involved in childcare or health. Those are the concerns of women, the church and charity, not the government.

The cornerstone of governments tends to be economics and war, not the welfare of children and the aged. But this could be a US point of view that is not so for all civilizations. What screams for attention in my mind is how proud the US was about having a lot of charity without government involvement in our welfare. As we became more technological our government became more controlling. We are in a transition that I don't think we understand. Not that long ago, the best a doctor could do for us is give us sympathy because the treatments and cures were unknown. Now we expect a lot of doctors and a lot of government.

 

[Vida May]

I had no idea that humans only recently evolved to the point of requiring excretion. How much easier it must have been when the old folks could just hold it all in!

Life expectancy in 1950 varied by location, but here are some examples:

• United States: In 1950, the average life expectancy in the US was 68 years. For men, the average was 66.5 years, and for women, it was 71.8 years.
  
  
  
• Globally: In 1950, the average life expectancy at birth was around 46 years.
  

Life expectancy has increased significantly since the mid-1900s. In 2023, the global average life expectancy at birth was 73 years. In the US, life expectancy has risen from 47 years in 1900 to nearly 79 years in 2019. life epxentancy in 1950 - Google Search

Few people lived long enough to experience a lack of bodily control. Our bodies change in significant ways and that change has meant big profits for service and medical industries and a shortage of some services. But thank goodness for the progress.

Urinary Incontinence Products from 1500-1950
The earliest incontinence devices can be traced back to Egypt, though very little is known about what they involved. However, we do know that in the 1500’s, an incontinence apparatus was invented. It consisted of a belt that strapped to a bag, which essentially acted as a portable restroom.
In the centuries that followed, incontinence inventors made minor updates and adjustments to this basic blueprint; but the basic outline remained the same. Then, in the 1800’s, people in Europe began using leaves—and, for the most comfortable protection, milkweed leaves were preferential—and animal skins.
It wasn’t until the 1900’s that women finally began using cloth as their primary form of leak protection, for both infants and adults. Cloth hygiene products had to be laundered regularly. In response to that inconvenience, the first disposable incontinence briefs were invented in the mid-1900’s.

Retro Urinary Incontinence Products from the 1950’s and 60’s​

Dr. Chimelewski, Research and Development Senior Scientist for Attends brand incontinence technology, has been in this industry for 44 years. He’s watched the technology grow across four decades.
“Closures were Velcro,” he shares, “I remember one of the early members, talking about using Velcro as a closure for a diaper, and a lot of people thought that was just too futuristic.” Now, looking back, Velcro seems dated.
“I guess looking back what’s interesting is, as is often in tech and science, there’s a lot of resistance to things that are new and different. New innovations aren’t immediately embraced -- not until you learn about them.”
Dr. Chimelewski remembers a time when incontinence pads were Velcro and thick cotton. Modern-day super-absorbent polymers weren’t being used yet in commercial products.
“Folks had those super-absorbent materials on the shelves in their laboratory, and a lot of people would say, ‘Oh, well, they’re just laboratory curiosities. Yah, they can hold a lot of liquid, but they’re too expensive. They’re never going to be commercial.’” Now, those materials are in almost every major brand.
Everything was thick and fluffy -- but in the 1990’s and beyond, we began moving towards thin, discreet, comfortable. History of Urinary Incontinence and Hygiene Pad Technology.

I was at least 70 before being shocked to know not only children need diapers and that the pads we use for our periods can be used for incontinence. It was a good day when I saw those pads on the store's shelve.

 

[dilettante]

So, what's the answer to the worker shortage? Immigrants? Robots?

Accelerated immigration has been under way for decades already. This was fastest for doctors, engineers, etc. but has ramped up even in manual labor.

Expect more government pressure to just shut up about immigration, if not open your homes to random immigrants. Why? Well the demographic collapse is so widespread now that there is growing competition to snap up the young adults and children of those parts of the world which haven't succumbed yet.

Succumbed to what? Come on, we all know what.

It has nothing to do with the cost of housing, financial support for young families, blah, blah, blah. Just look at the failure to make a dent anywhere "fixing" that has been tried.

There just isn't any escaping the fact of willing artificial infertility.

 

[dilettante]

Few people lived long enough to experience a lack of bodily control. Our bodies change in significant ways and that change has meant big profits for service and medical industries and a shortage of some services. But thank goodness for the progress.

I'm not sure I get your point.

If demands for health care are up then how does constricting the supply of it not make the problem worse? How does eliminating financial incentives cause the constriction to ease?

I don't really care what you did for a living, but would you have done it for free? For bare subsistence pay?

There really is no Big Daddy in the Sky with a bagfull of money withholding your rightful share out of malice. There is a Big Government taxing your pockets and putting the country deeper in debt and often misappropriating vast sums of that on weapons and wars.

 

[Buckeye]

Housing shortage??

According to Mr Google's AI:

In 2022, there were about 15.1 million vacant homes in the United States, which is about 10.5% of the country's total housing inventory. This is a decrease from the peak of almost 19 million vacant homes after the 2008 housing crisis.

 

[Vida May]

So, what's the answer to the worker shortage? Immigrants? Robots?

 

[debodun]

With my medical insurance, a referral isn't required to make an appointment with a specialist, but try to get one on my own with one I have not consulted with previously and it's, "We're all booked up for the next 15 months." I feel like saying, "I'll be all better or dead by then!".
However, if I make an appointment with my GP, she can usually get an appointment within a week. So I am paying twice since I have to go to a GP before seeing a new specialist.
Fortunately, I have standing appointments with my cardiologist, ophthalmologist and retina consultant. When I see them, they have me make the next appointment, but for some reason, with my gynecologist and gastroenterologist it's on as "as needed basis".

 

[gruntlabor]

It seems there is a worker shortage in all realms of our labor market including the healthcare sector. Supply and demand of labor is driving up wages. There's also a shortage of housing, which is driving up the cost of housing.

Part of the problem in the healthcare sector is the number of babyboomers retiring, which is reducing the supply of healthcare workers but increasing the demand, since older folks have more ailments.

The high cost of housing is causing people to put off having children or not having as many children as they would otherwise, which will continue to contribute to the worker shortage.

So, what's the answer to the worker shortage? Immigrants? Robots?

I'm afraid that our house of cards must fall. It will be painful, more so than most people would believe.

 

[Paco Dennis]

Only when the shareholders demand change from the CEO's will there be medical coverage. The shareholders have got to refuse to do business with Corporations that are too weighty on top. Bring the wages and costs way down. If we applied fairness to labor we would all fair well. God help us if that sounds socialist.

 

[JustDave]

Ha! I just rewatched that movie a week ago. It's dated, but in its day it was unique and well done considering the available technology in film making. It was the first movie of its kind that I remember, and its basic premise has been used in a bunch of films since then.

 

[Vida May]

I'm not sure I get your point.

The subject was incontinence. Who knew adults wet their pants until rather recently? I was addressing this quote

I had no idea that humans only recently evolved to the point of requiring excretion. How much easier it must have been when the old folks could just hold it all in!

The misunderstanding is back a few posts. It really doesn't matter. What matters to me is I need to see a urologist and that was not a problem a couple of years ago. Today the earliest I can schedule an appointment with a urologist is in May! That is totally unacceptable.

The alternative to waiting could be death and I am good with that as long as it isn't painful. I do not want to be a burden to others or to be part of the problem. If there isn't room at the table, I am not taking a seat. Not so different from my friend who goes home and goes to bed when he is told to go to the overcrowded emergency room. The point is, that there is a problem with getting medical care. What can know about it and what can be done?

 

[dilettante]

I think H. G. Wells' "Time Machine" might be closer to what happens. But stick to the book: Both well-known film adaptations obscured the point by making the urbanites into humanlike tragic Eloi and cast the workers into monstrous Morlocks.

 

[dilettante]

What matters to me is I need to see a urologist and that was not a problem a couple of years ago. Today the earliest I can schedule an appointment with a urologist is in May! That is totally unacceptable.

I'm really sorry to hear that. But yes, our bodies fail all of us at one point or another in life.

Maybe I just got lucky, I was able to get in to see a Urologist within 3 months. Thankfully in my case it was just on the list of things to check out for my age. I came away pretty good, though the examination was no fun. I just have a prescription to help keep flow going instead of controlling flow.

 

[dilettante]

The point is, that there is a problem with getting medical care. What can know about it and what can be done?

I think a big part of it is high costs. But the growing shortage of health care workers at every level is an obvious problem.

 

[Vida May]

I'm afraid that our house of cards must fall. It will be painful, more so than most people would believe.

I would really like to know why you said that. I think some of us are the falling house of cards. I know I would make different decisions if I could afford anything I wanted. The truth is things look pretty dire for low-income elderly people. I wish we would get real about this. Not because I think anything could be changed, but precisely because I believe the problem will continue to get worse and denial is a slap in the face. It is like saying our failure is a personal failure, rather than an unavoidable fact of life.

 

[Vida May]

I think a big part of it is high costs. But the growing shortage of health care workers at every level is an obvious problem.

Now the cost issue is something I think we might resolve. Mandate all women stay home and take care of their families and neighbors as women were expected to do. I am kidding, but on the other hand I am not kidding because I was one of those women so I do not have the benefit of a career with a good retirement plan.

Nurses and teachers going on strike for higher wages horrifies me because this has negative consequences, like the employer not hiring enough people to make the workload tolerable, and children and adults not getting the advantages that come with money. What are we valuing? It sure is not the women who gave so much for their families and communities, and don't deserve anything because they can not pay for it. It is not exactly the patient or child needing the education or care. And we are devaluing the dollar! Is there another way to think through all this?

 

[Vida May]

I think H. G. Wells' "Time Machine" might be closer to what happens. But stick to the book: Both well-known film adaptations obscured the point by making the urbanites into humanlike tragic Eloi and cast the workers into monstrous Morlocks.

Really, I had not thought of that and I know movies mess up the story line. When it comes to novels like "Time Machine" that really matters. Thank you. Now I have to buy the book and read it. I sure hope I can encourage a great-grandson to read the book. What if "Time Machine" and The Brave New World" were on high school reading lists and they had teachers who helped them think about what they were reading. This subject should become its own thread.

 

[gruntlabor]

I would really like to know why you said that. I think some of us are the falling house of cards. I know I would make different decisions if I could afford anything I wanted. The truth is things look pretty dire for low-income elderly people. I wish we would get real about this. Not because I think anything could be changed, but precisely because I believe the problem will continue to get worse and denial is a slap in the face. It is like saying our failure is a personal failure, rather than an unavoidable fact of life.

For so many reasons, not the least of which are the steep drop in morals and mental health, the national debt, the contempt of the left for traditional values, the contempt of the right, as you may be suffering, for high hopes and ideals, wars and dangerous unrest, but it's just my opinion.