Is This the Face of Hate?
- Thread starter RadishRose
- Start date
Warrigal
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- Sydney, Australia
I've been reading about this church in the Wall Street Journal. It is so sad to read some of the history.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/pastors-say-black-churches-need-to-review-security-1434675933
We lock our church building when it is empty because we've had our sound equipment stolen in the past. We would never consider having the doors locked when we are inside praying, holding a meeting or a church service. It is unthinkable, but the idea of having armed guards present is even worse.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/pastors-say-black-churches-need-to-review-security-1434675933
We lock our church building when it is empty because we've had our sound equipment stolen in the past. We would never consider having the doors locked when we are inside praying, holding a meeting or a church service. It is unthinkable, but the idea of having armed guards present is even worse.
Warrigal
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- Location
- Sydney, Australia
The nine people who died; a state senator and pastor, 41; a librarian, 54; a speech therapist and althletics coach, mother of 3, 45; a business admin graduate, 26; a grandmother, 70; church member, 87; chorister and mother of 4, 49; a minister of the church, 74, a minister's wife, 59. Hard to imagine that any of them were bad people. Hate must be very blind indeed.
I heard on the news that this is the 14th time that President Obama has had to front the media after a mass shooting. Tragedy piled upon tragedy.
I heard on the news that this is the 14th time that President Obama has had to front the media after a mass shooting. Tragedy piled upon tragedy.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
President Obama's words
“To say our thoughts and prayers are with them and their families doesn’t say enough to convey the heartache and the sadness and the anger that we feel,” Obama said. “Any death of this sort is a tragedy, any shooting involving multiple victims is a tragedy. There is something particularly heartbreaking about death happening in a place in which we seek solace, and we seek peace, in a place of worship.”
Obama said Emanuel is “more than a church, this is a place of worship that was founded by African-Americans seeking liberty. This is a church that was burned to the ground because its worshippers worked to end slavery.”
And the fact that it’s a black church, Obama said, “obviously also raises questions about a dark part of our history,”
“This is not the first time that black churches have been attacked. And we know that hatred across races and faiths pose a particular threat to our democracy and our ideals,” he said.
But Obama said the show of unity across Charleston in the wake of the shooting “indicates the degree to which those old vestiges of hatred can be overcome,” and invoked the word of Martin Luther King Jr. after the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing that killed four young girls in Birmingham, Alabama, in 1963.
Still, his strongest comments were in regard to the need to address the issue of gun violence in America.
“It is in our power to do something about it,” Obama said. “I say that recognizing the politics in this town foreclose a lot of those avenues right now. But it would be wrong for us not to acknowledge it. At some point it’s going to be important for the American people to come to grips with it, and for us to be able to shift how we think about the issue of gun violence collectively.”
Video here: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ce-doesnt-happen-in-other-advanced-countries/ although McAfee has blocked some content on this site.
“To say our thoughts and prayers are with them and their families doesn’t say enough to convey the heartache and the sadness and the anger that we feel,” Obama said. “Any death of this sort is a tragedy, any shooting involving multiple victims is a tragedy. There is something particularly heartbreaking about death happening in a place in which we seek solace, and we seek peace, in a place of worship.”
Obama said Emanuel is “more than a church, this is a place of worship that was founded by African-Americans seeking liberty. This is a church that was burned to the ground because its worshippers worked to end slavery.”
And the fact that it’s a black church, Obama said, “obviously also raises questions about a dark part of our history,”
“This is not the first time that black churches have been attacked. And we know that hatred across races and faiths pose a particular threat to our democracy and our ideals,” he said.
But Obama said the show of unity across Charleston in the wake of the shooting “indicates the degree to which those old vestiges of hatred can be overcome,” and invoked the word of Martin Luther King Jr. after the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing that killed four young girls in Birmingham, Alabama, in 1963.
Still, his strongest comments were in regard to the need to address the issue of gun violence in America.
“It is in our power to do something about it,” Obama said. “I say that recognizing the politics in this town foreclose a lot of those avenues right now. But it would be wrong for us not to acknowledge it. At some point it’s going to be important for the American people to come to grips with it, and for us to be able to shift how we think about the issue of gun violence collectively.”
Video here: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ce-doesnt-happen-in-other-advanced-countries/ although McAfee has blocked some content on this site.
This has been a leading story on the news here in the UK, so we heard Obama's speech as well. This monster must have been raised by racist parents and I wouldn't be surprised if his dad was a member of a white supremacist group. I've always had the impression that SC had a LOT of racism, don't know if it's more than other states?
Ironic that with in 24 hours of this drug addicted racist committing these horrible murders that Texas executed a murderer that beat a mechanic to death while on a crack binge.
http://keyetv.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/texas-executes-man-slaying-mechanic-26524.shtml
http://www.examiner.com/article/charleston-church-shooter-had-history-of-arrests-and-drug-use
This should be church shooter's fate as well.
http://keyetv.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/texas-executes-man-slaying-mechanic-26524.shtml
http://www.examiner.com/article/charleston-church-shooter-had-history-of-arrests-and-drug-use
This should be church shooter's fate as well.
One big objection to this remove our guns argument. It is not the guns problem, it is in our nations temperament that is our problem all the time. We constantly hear that we must remove the guns to end the problem. One very good example that guns do not cause the problem is the Swiss that give guns to their people and they keep them at home and walk around and ride the buses with no problems that most of us ever hear of. It is not the guns, it is our countries mentality about things.
Look to other countries where killing is OK and mostly it is not guns that are the problem, instead it becomes the knife that is mostly used to behead those you don't like. They also have lots of guns, but the knife seems to be there choice for personal reasons.
One person I saw on TV last night, not sure but I believe one of Martin Luther Kings family, that was saying it was not the guns to attack. I did not hear all her comments but I am sure she was pointing to mind sets rather than just a gun.
They got the killer and he should be fully charged and penalized. He has just admitted it all to the police and possibly to the courts as well.
Look to other countries where killing is OK and mostly it is not guns that are the problem, instead it becomes the knife that is mostly used to behead those you don't like. They also have lots of guns, but the knife seems to be there choice for personal reasons.
One person I saw on TV last night, not sure but I believe one of Martin Luther Kings family, that was saying it was not the guns to attack. I did not hear all her comments but I am sure she was pointing to mind sets rather than just a gun.
They got the killer and he should be fully charged and penalized. He has just admitted it all to the police and possibly to the courts as well.
Jackie22
Well-known Member
- Location
- Northeast Texas
I'd just like to commend the victim's families and the people of Charleston, they've reacted in a kind and forgiving way to a deplorable act and even though the shooter admitted he was trying to start a race war....they are setting an example that hate will not win.
This is an article I ran across, that pretty well says it all for me.....
[h=1]New Yorker: Charleston and the Age of Obama[/h]http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/charleston-and-the-age-of-obama
No small part of our outrage and grief—particularly the outrage and grief of African-Americans—is the way the Charleston murders are part of a larger picture of American life, in which black men and women, going about their day-to-day lives, have so little confidence in their own safety. One appalling event after another reinforces the sense that the country’s political and law-enforcement institutions do not extend themselves as completely or as fairly as they do for whites. In Charleston, the killer seemed intent on maximizing both the bloodshed and the symbolism that is attached to the act; the murder took place in a spiritual refuge, supposedly the safest of places. It was as if the killer wanted to underline the vulnerability of his victims, to emphasize their exposure and the racist nature of this act of terror.
Watching Obama deliver his statement Thursday about the Charleston murders, you couldn’t help but sense how submerged his emotions were, how, yet again, he was forced to slow down his own speech, careful not to utter a phrase that would, God forbid, lead him to lose his equanimity. I thought of that sentence of James Baldwin’s: “To be a ***** in this country and to be relatively conscious is to be in rage almost all of the time.” Obama’s statement also made me think of “Between the World and Me,” an extraordinary forthcoming book by Ta-Nehisi Coates, in which he writes an impassioned letter to his teen-age son—a letter both loving and full of a parent’s dread—counselling him on the history of American violence against the black body, the young African-American’s extreme vulnerability to wrongful arrest, police violence, and disproportionate incarceration.
Obama never affords himself the kind of raw honesty that you hear in the writings of Baldwin and Coates—or of Jelani Cobb and Claudia Rankine and so many others. Obama has a different job; he has different parameters. But, for all of his Presidential restraint, you could read the sadness, the anger, and the caution in his face as he stood at the podium; you could hear it in what he had to say. “I’ve had to make statements like this too many times,” he said. It was as if he could barely believe that he yet again had to find some language to do justice to this kind of violence. It seemed that he went further than usual. Above all, he insisted that mass killings, like the one in Charleston, are, in no small measure, political. This is the crucial point. These murders were not random or merely tragic; they were pointedly racist; they were political. Obama made it clear that the cynical actions of so many politicians—their refusal to cross the N.R.A. and enact strict gun laws, their unwillingness to combat racism in any way that puts votes at risk—have bloody consequences.
“We don’t have all the facts,” he said, “but we do know that, once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. … At some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. It doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency.” On race and politics, he was more subtle, but not stinting, either, lamenting the event’s connection to “a dark part of our history,” to events like the Birmingham church bombing, in 1963.
This is an article I ran across, that pretty well says it all for me.....
[h=1]New Yorker: Charleston and the Age of Obama[/h]http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/charleston-and-the-age-of-obama
No small part of our outrage and grief—particularly the outrage and grief of African-Americans—is the way the Charleston murders are part of a larger picture of American life, in which black men and women, going about their day-to-day lives, have so little confidence in their own safety. One appalling event after another reinforces the sense that the country’s political and law-enforcement institutions do not extend themselves as completely or as fairly as they do for whites. In Charleston, the killer seemed intent on maximizing both the bloodshed and the symbolism that is attached to the act; the murder took place in a spiritual refuge, supposedly the safest of places. It was as if the killer wanted to underline the vulnerability of his victims, to emphasize their exposure and the racist nature of this act of terror.
Watching Obama deliver his statement Thursday about the Charleston murders, you couldn’t help but sense how submerged his emotions were, how, yet again, he was forced to slow down his own speech, careful not to utter a phrase that would, God forbid, lead him to lose his equanimity. I thought of that sentence of James Baldwin’s: “To be a ***** in this country and to be relatively conscious is to be in rage almost all of the time.” Obama’s statement also made me think of “Between the World and Me,” an extraordinary forthcoming book by Ta-Nehisi Coates, in which he writes an impassioned letter to his teen-age son—a letter both loving and full of a parent’s dread—counselling him on the history of American violence against the black body, the young African-American’s extreme vulnerability to wrongful arrest, police violence, and disproportionate incarceration.
Obama never affords himself the kind of raw honesty that you hear in the writings of Baldwin and Coates—or of Jelani Cobb and Claudia Rankine and so many others. Obama has a different job; he has different parameters. But, for all of his Presidential restraint, you could read the sadness, the anger, and the caution in his face as he stood at the podium; you could hear it in what he had to say. “I’ve had to make statements like this too many times,” he said. It was as if he could barely believe that he yet again had to find some language to do justice to this kind of violence. It seemed that he went further than usual. Above all, he insisted that mass killings, like the one in Charleston, are, in no small measure, political. This is the crucial point. These murders were not random or merely tragic; they were pointedly racist; they were political. Obama made it clear that the cynical actions of so many politicians—their refusal to cross the N.R.A. and enact strict gun laws, their unwillingness to combat racism in any way that puts votes at risk—have bloody consequences.
“We don’t have all the facts,” he said, “but we do know that, once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. … At some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. It doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency.” On race and politics, he was more subtle, but not stinting, either, lamenting the event’s connection to “a dark part of our history,” to events like the Birmingham church bombing, in 1963.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
Yep. Disgraceful.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
Yes... and when I shared this pic on FB I had two White friends that were upset and accused me of "fanning the flames" My response was that this is something to be embarrassed about... and their remarks proved to me that they were.. I know I am.
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It is a total embarrassment.
I agree there is a difference in how the police reacted. One quietly stood for arrest and the other attempted to avoid arrest. I don't think color was the difference at all. All who resist arrest end up being man handled and pushed around.
Good message but a poor choice of pictures for your message.
Good message but a poor choice of pictures for your message.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
Sorry,... wrong Bob... If you cannot breathe and are trying to break away in order to breathe... Is that resisting arrest? The point is.. this Roof was not wrestled to the ground and suffocated..
Are you convinced he was not resisting arrest before being tackled and put to the ground? Usually no heavy handed stuff if you are obeying from the beginning. Running, backing away, refusing to answer questions, resisting the officers in anyway is justification for officers to become aggressive.
I was not there but I am sure there was no aggression on a normal stop situation.
I was not there but I am sure there was no aggression on a normal stop situation.
I don't know, but SC is one of two states(VA being the other) where I've met racial hatred firsthand because of public interracial appearances.
Warrigal
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- Location
- Sydney, Australia
The toughest thing that Jesus asked of his followers is to forgive your enemies, to do good to them that do evil towards you.
It is rarely seen because most of us have an old testament heart, one that seeks retribution and revenge.
Methodism began in England with the Wesleys and was essentially a holiness movement. It was seen as pretty extreme and unorthodox in that time but later became more like other protestant denominations.
As a holiness movement members were urged to read the bible and pray diligently, to preach the gospel to the populace and take seriously the call to care for people, even prisoners in gaol. Forgiveness and love were upheld as among the most important values that must be translated into action.
The response of the heartbroken families of the people who were gunned down without mercy is a modern manifestation of the Christian ideal. It's not the first time I have seen it but I am always amazed by this response. It is the very core of Christianity but it is a very rare thing.
It is rarely seen because most of us have an old testament heart, one that seeks retribution and revenge.
Methodism began in England with the Wesleys and was essentially a holiness movement. It was seen as pretty extreme and unorthodox in that time but later became more like other protestant denominations.
As a holiness movement members were urged to read the bible and pray diligently, to preach the gospel to the populace and take seriously the call to care for people, even prisoners in gaol. Forgiveness and love were upheld as among the most important values that must be translated into action.
The response of the heartbroken families of the people who were gunned down without mercy is a modern manifestation of the Christian ideal. It's not the first time I have seen it but I am always amazed by this response. It is the very core of Christianity but it is a very rare thing.
charlotta
Member
- Location
- montgomery alabama
There are so many people in the U.S that are full of hatred and many are mentally ill. My heart is saddened that this could happen in a Church and he sat and listened to the service. If he isn't mentally ill, he must have learned this hatred from a person whom he admired.
Don M.
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- Location
- central Missouri
It seems that when one of these mass shootings take place, there is usually One Common Denominator....the shooter has had a fairly long history of Mental Issues. Mental Health treatment, in this nation, seems to have almost disappeared. The number of mental institutions has declined to almost nothing in the past several decades, and if a person does go in for treatment, they are given a prescription for some mind numbing drugs...which most probably fail to take...and turned back onto the streets. It's almost a miracle that we don't have more of these incidents. There certainly needs to be better measures put in place to keep weapons out of the hands of these people....but labeling someone as being Mentally Ill has become almost Totally "Politically Incorrect". It's real easy to blame "Guns"...but that is, IMO, failing to address the Real Issue.
Warrigal
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- Sydney, Australia
IMO Don, both are issues that need consideration and action.
RadishRose
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- Connecticut, USA
This is not only about senseless murder of blacks and hatred. As I have tried to open, this is also very much about the strangeness and mentally ill issues young American men seem to have developed or at least exhibited in recent years.
This particular crime is about intolerance regarding race, yes; another in a tragic, long list.
There is more that the US needs to address, which is to me, the rapid decline of mental health and/or feelings of hatred so prevalent in our young men today.
I saw a partial list online of mass murders; massacres over the past 20 I think, years. The list left out a lot! And it's not even about guns per se.
Am I alone thinking there is something different, something epidemic going on here? Don you seem to think so too.
This particular crime is about intolerance regarding race, yes; another in a tragic, long list.
There is more that the US needs to address, which is to me, the rapid decline of mental health and/or feelings of hatred so prevalent in our young men today.
I saw a partial list online of mass murders; massacres over the past 20 I think, years. The list left out a lot! And it's not even about guns per se.
Am I alone thinking there is something different, something epidemic going on here? Don you seem to think so too.
Warrigal
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- Location
- Sydney, Australia
What do you see happening in other advanced western countries RR?
Is it more pronounced in young American men than elsewhere?
Or is it that every social problem, crime, racism, domestic violence, mental illness etc is made worse by easy access to firearms?
Is it more pronounced in young American men than elsewhere?
Or is it that every social problem, crime, racism, domestic violence, mental illness etc is made worse by easy access to firearms?
hollydolly
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Sorry TN, could you explain the Bold more clearly, I'm not sure I understand what you mean