Your comment is entirely wrong. Just follow the rules I posted above and something will happen, for or against the anti gun stuff.
Is This the Face of Hate?
- Thread starter RadishRose
- Start date
Your comment is entirely wrong. Just follow the rules I posted above and something will happen, for or against the anti gun stuff.
Not sure just what can be done or should be done. That is something that us little folks have little power to change. Contact our Congress people and tell them how we would like it done. All this finger pointing and screaming will never get anything done at all.
I agree Don, and have posted a listing of murderers here in the past who were all under the influence of prescription drugs for depression or anxiety. These drugs have side effects of both suicidal and homicidal tendencies. They said this killer was a pill popper, and had been using Xanax and Soboxone. James Holmes who is on trial now for mass murder was taking Zoloft and Clonazepam, the list is extensive, but greatly ignored. Until this is addressed, these crimes will continue. I don't know if it's true for this particular case, but doctors are too lax in prescribing these mind altering drugs, they are conditioned to push the pharmaceuticals and this has been starting in grade school.
There's plenty of illegal guns in the hands of gangs and criminals on the streets, if his father didn't give him one, he could easily get an illegal one off the streets. The political talk following one of these tragedies is always the same, remove guns from the law abiding citizens or make it harder for them to have them. I feel very bad for all the victims and their families and don't want to argue politics. This kid was obviously a racist with mental issues, too many of those around.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
Why change the constitution when sensible gun regulations and universal background checks, as well as a ban on assault weapons and large volume magazines would be simpler.. Just needs to be passed by Congress.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Sounds like a plan QS but what happens when one or more states decide to appeal to the High (Supreme?) Court for a constitutional ruling and it is deemed to be unconstitutional with regard to the second amendment?
It would be better to rescind or at least replace the second amendment with a more appropriate wording for the 21 century and beyond. The Congress can get on with the job of making the people a lot safer. Just my opinion, of course, and humbly given because I am looking on from the outside.
It would be better to rescind or at least replace the second amendment with a more appropriate wording for the 21 century and beyond. The Congress can get on with the job of making the people a lot safer. Just my opinion, of course, and humbly given because I am looking on from the outside.
Jackie22
Well-known Member
- Location
- Northeast Texas
Whether the shooter is under the influence of drugs, mentally ill, a muslim, a long wolf, a racist, a terrorist, black or white......makes no difference.....it is the readily availability of guns in this country that is the problem.
Being in public as an interracial couple generated hate responses from people there in public who objected to "mixing of the races". Human behavior at it's ugliest...
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
No offense to you or your opinion, but IMHO nothing that is done to or with the Second Amendment wording will affect what the bad guys do with guns or how they get them. It would only affect us law abiding gun owners. The bad guys don't give a hoot about what the law says, and that's the problem.
hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
Thank you Tn..
Thank you.
One thing I did not make clear in my many efforts to end the 2nd Amendment comments. The crazed or criminal types just don't care what the 2nd Amendment says. They just want to harm some folks and guns registered or not will do the job. Something more must be done to end those wild efforts and the use of any weapons that may be available. Guns, knives, explosives are all being used to harm others. Some how we need to end these threats.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
Why not do away with ALL laws then? Only the law abiding citizens follow them anyway.
http://www.armedwithreason.com/rebu...biding-citizens-argument-against-gun-control/
Not only is this conservative sound-bite irrelevant to gun reform discussion, it’s also socially untenable and dangerously naïve. If we were to accept that a law is justified only if it has a 100% compliance rate (this is, necessarily, the logical extension of any position that renounces legal reform under the pretense that ‘criminals don’t obey laws’), then we could systematically dismantle every existing law until nothing remains but the state of nature. Laws against murder, rape, and theft would be abandoned out of fear that criminals wouldn’t follow them, and that they would thus hurt law-abiding citizens who ostensibly murder, rape, and thieve out of self-defense. Taking this argument to its logical endpoint, even the most hardened of libertarians would be reticent to accept a world where property crimes can be used to abrogate property rights.
Not to mention that there are already plenty of weapons that have been banned which criminals aren’t using– RPGs, machine guns, anti-tank weapons, surface-to-air missiles, and so on. Just because something is illegal doesn’t mean that criminals automatically have a desire to use said weapons, or have access to a black market that could supply them.
Not sure those charts are really meaningful either. Showing only gun crimes and their direction after gun control has only one point showing. The other, and much bigger picture means they must re establish overall trends over time and show then how killings do trend. Immediate trends when guns first taken away don't show an overall change that would come with time.
I don't think this can be applied to anyone in particular. We all use laws we agree with and then violate the others to one degree or another. Nothing is so simple or pure as to say we all respond the same to all laws or regulations.
For examples, look to the highways. Speed limits are good for many of us, most of the time. Some times we speed to make time. Sometimes we must speed to clear a relatively slow driver who is blocking traffic on the highways. Sometimes in slow city traffic we just switch lanes suddenly to get into a faster lane. I say most of us to follow the laws when it is OK but then we also adjust our driving whenever hoping to improve our time and distance for a drive.
My point being that not all of us follow all rules all the time always.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
AND my point is.... No anti gun control proponent.. you included, has a solution to end the carnage that seems to permeate THIS country over all other developed countries. The only thing offered is the silly statement about only criminals getting guns or following laws. Is there a correlation with the ease of availability of firearms? It would seem so as we lead the world in firearm deaths. What is the answer?? I say it's sensible gun control.. you say NO.. if not, then what is?
If you are pointing to me I say you are way off when saying what you have just posted. I have not said no to what you say is sensible gun control. That type of statement is true for one person only as all of us have different ideas about 'sensible' gun controls. I keep suggesting the folks go to their Congressmen and post their idea of good or better. Only Congress can make any nationwide changes to gun control. Otherwise it is good to approach your state Congress and offer them the idea of good or better. In the US none of us has the power or authority to demand changes to our system. Not even Obama can do that legally as it is all supposed to pass through our Congress to achieve a national recognition.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
What exactly IS your idea of "sensible gun control"?
And I repeat again what I have said over and over is contact your Congress persons and state what ever you choose to be your favorite way. I don't have one directly as it can change over and over as all cases are different and need judged that way. I have no problems with the 2nd Amendment at all.
In fact a couple years back gun problems dropped. I tried to get a newer listing but would now have to sign on. Will keep on looking for newer data.
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/11/200671-fbi-now-know-record-numbers-gun-sales-means-gun-crimes-america/
[h=1]FBI Drops Truth-Bomb on Gun Control Advocates: Firearms Numbers at Record Levels & Violent Crime Decreases[/h]
By Charles Samuel (7 months ago) | Nation, Politics
The FBI just released its data for Crime in the United States, 2013 and gun control lobbyists are probably not going to like what it says.
According to the report, while background checks for firearm purchasers hit record levels in 2013 — 21,093,273 to be exact — “violent crimes in 2013 decreased 4.4 percent when compared with 2012 figures, and the estimated number of property crimes decreased 4.1 percent.”
FBI data over the last 5 years show that there’s been a drop in violent crimes and property crimes over that span. Here’s a chart the agency provided:
Image Credit: FBI
While we’ve seen hints of this before, we finally have the data in front of us to understand the correlation between purchasing guns and crimes committed with guns: there is no correlation.
..................
I have been looking for more current data but no finding it like I could a couple years ago. Will keep looking as I know it is here somewhere.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
Ok... that's what I thought... you don't see guns and the easy availability of guns as a problem... alrighty then... lol!!
Another thing common to all these mass shootings, is they generally take place in gun-free zones, churches, theaters, military bases, etc. I wouldn't go to a place to kill people if I knew some of them were legally carrying and could take me out before my mission was accomplished.
And obviously we do think differently. There is no law preventing that. Did you read the charts I posted? Problems seem to be going down, just what you want isn't it? Seems like it is on the right track per that chart.
And nothing that you or I can do ourselves but contact our Congress people and suggest more restrictions. Winning and complaining will never fix anything.
I was driving home a few weeks ago listening to this stupid call in talk program. One of the co-hosts stated in 20 years there would be no racism as all the racists would have died out and it's a new generation. I remember thinking 'you are one stupid ignorant blank blank'
Beyond sadly this happens. I wonder if that talk show individual makes the connection to his statement.
Beyond sadly this happens. I wonder if that talk show individual makes the connection to his statement.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Are you out of you mind? Look around at the rest of the world.
The USA has a massive problem that needs something done about it.
It isn't just about guns but it is about them.
Deep rooted cultural change takes longer to achieve but sensible gun control can begin anytime people are prepared to introduce it.
IMO there should be no gun free zones declared because gun free should be the default position. Rather, limit the places where certain people may have a gun on them and the conditions that apply. Law enforcement should have the authority to impound weapons that are carried illegally.
If I were to walk down a street in Sydney with a pistol on my hip or a rifle slung over my arm it wouldn't be very long before I would be facing a couple of police officers who would be asking me a lot of hard questions. This is the cultural change that I referred to earlier and it is what makes me unafraid to walk downtown, visit a church or a shopping mall and it is what keeps our kids safe at school.
Warrigal, did you read the charts I put up earlier. We have more weapons than ever registered, but the gun incidents are also falling. Don't you at least recognize that and appreciate what is happening in the US.
I see no justification in judging the US against lots of other countries. The US still has a Constitution that guaranties citizen freedoms from birth to death. Many countries in this world are more likely driven by older forms of government where attention is given to the divine leaderships and royalties. Not quite as free as the US. Our ways will change but not just because someone says so. It must all be taken through our Congress, and maybe even further if it requires Constitutional change. As long as our government keeps it's rights, there will be no fast changes on anything at all.
If you have not seen my charts, back up a couple or so inputs and take a look at them. I think it is pretty good for the recent years of the US in our battle against criminal gun actions. One weak place is our inability to challenge mental suspicions as that knowledge has been assigned to private and personal privileged information. It must be somehow released to gun registration efforts.
So more guns than ever registered but lower incidents recorded. Sounds like the right direction to me.
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Perhaps it would help if we did a little more early intervention with our budding criminals/addicts/crazies. Around here where I live, you get a slap on the wrist for your first few arrests, and or, get released on bail to go do it again. Maybe if we took more interest early on instead of just saying "tsk tsk boys will be boys" we might stop some of this before it gets to critical mass.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
We already have more people incarcerated than any other country. Should we just lock everyone up for anything?
Source
Source
For those that live in the cities it appears that there's the belief that the police can somehow protect citizens from criminal activity, hence the anti-gun sentiment.
In rural areas people understand that they are "on their own" for security, hence the pro-gun sentiment. A gun is a tool, and as any tool that is dangerous, should be kept out of the hands of those who are not competent.
Laws enacted over the last 40+ years have reduced motor vehicle deaths, yet allowed continued ownership of motor vehicles.