Is This the Face of Hate?

[Butterfly]

We already have more people incarcerated than any other country. Should we just lock everyone up for anything?

Not necessarily lock 'em up in jail, but maybe make an effort to see what's going on with them before we turn them loose.

We need to find a way to identify the serious crazies before they go on and murder a bunch of people. In this recent instance, a psychiatrist or counselor had serious concerns about the shooter's intentions, but there was no way she could do anything about it or tip off authorities. I don't know what the answer is, but we need to find it.

 

[Warrigal]

We are currently looking at our domestic violence problem which is described as "Australia's dirty little secret". On average two women per week have been killed by an intimate partner this year. This statistic is not so much about guns as it is about booze. Booze is not the cause of domestic violence but it does make it worse.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tic-violence-must-go-beyond-cries-of-misogyny

To solve any social problem it is necessary to examine it carefully, not sweep it under the carpet. Then there has to be a will to turn it around that is expressed in serious financial commitment to deal with the causes and to change attitudes.

Albert Einstein may or may not have said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 

[Warrigal]

Move to a better topic

 

[Ameriscot]

Warrigal, did you read the charts I put up earlier. We have more weapons than ever registered, but the gun incidents are also falling. Don't you at least recognize that and appreciate what is happening in the US.

I see no justification in judging the US against lots of other countries. The US still has a Constitution that guaranties citizen freedoms from birth to death. Many countries in this world are more likely driven by older forms of government where attention is given to the divine leaderships and royalties. Not quite as free as the US. Our ways will change but not just because someone says so. It must all be taken through our Congress, and maybe even further if it requires Constitutional change. As long as our government keeps it's rights, there will be no fast changes on anything at all.

If you have not seen my charts, back up a couple or so inputs and take a look at them. I think it is pretty good for the recent years of the US in our battle against criminal gun actions. One weak place is our inability to challenge mental suspicions as that knowledge has been assigned to private and personal privileged information. It must be somehow released to gun registration efforts.

So more guns than ever registered but lower incidents recorded. Sounds like the right direction to me.

I try to avoid gun arguments as it's like bashing my head against a brick wall. But this statement which I read repeatedly really pisses me off. Many Americans have this arrogant attitude that the US is the only free country in the world. And, no, that does not make me an anti-American American.

Tell me exactly how you are more free than I am living in the UK. So there's a Queen? She really has no power. Big deal. We have freedom of speech. We don't have more guns than population or people walking around with them while they are shopping with their kids. Fine with me.

 

[Warrigal]

I went to the city today to visit the dentist. She is in a building near Central Railway, which is not a terribly flash section of the city.
As I hobbled down to my destination I looked about me at the people. They were a mixed bag, various ethnicities, and all ages from toddlers in prams to the unemployed man selling The Big Issue magazine on a corner. I wondered how many of them might be carrying a gun and decided that none of them were. Why would they?

I felt absolutely free.

 

[QuickSilver]

How free can we call ourselves? Whenever we go out in public, or attend a public event, there is the distinct possibility that some moron will open fire.. and an even better possibility that some armed citizens will open fire on him, killing innocent bystanders. Personally, this makes us LESS free. We live in a world much like the wild west.. You never know who's got a gun... or who will use it, or who they will kill with it.. That's not freedom. A few months ago I attended the movie American Sniper. As I sat in the theater, I was thinking that THIS movie if any might trigger some idiot to come in and open fire. I remember looking at the door by movie screen and thinking that if I saw it open, should I run or lie on the floor. Is that FREEDOM? It's fear.

 

[BobF]

I try to avoid gun arguments as it's like bashing my head against a brick wall. But this statement which I read repeatedly really pisses me off. Many Americans have this arrogant attitude that the US is the only free country in the world. And, no, that does not make me an anti-American American.

Tell me exactly how you are more free than I am living in the UK. So there's a Queen? She really has no power. Big deal. We have freedom of speech. We don't have more guns than population or people walking around with them while they are shopping with their kids. Fine with me.

Sorry you are upset as what I said is about how the different governments get their leads. Big difference is that in the US we are supposed to get our inputs directly from the people, as all our governments are elected by the people, and then debate it in the congress to either accept it or alter it or reject it.

As I said, in other countries there is some sort of lead for the governments with historical leads officially overseeing the currents governments directions. So there is often an oversight type of government. It does exist, how rigidly does it operate I don't know, just that there is some sort of oversight from inside. I am only trying to point out a difference.

We in the US have no royalties or lifetime leaders at all. Our governments are locally arranged and tolerated till next elections and replaced. To my thinking that is a better way and I expressed my thinking quite freely, same as you when you responded. It has been a good deal for over 200 years and we should try to keep it that way for future years too.

I tried to avoid picking on any country, I was only saying how things are different in the US from many other countries. We have a Constitution for our guiding, and that is about all I can think of. And that is in the realm of the peoples ability to modify if desired.

 

[QuickSilver]

Things here certainly ARE different than it other developed countries... and certainly NOT for the better.

 

[Ameriscot]

Sorry you are upset as what I said is about how the different governments get their leads. Big difference is that in the US we are supposed to get our inputs directly from the people, as all our governments are elected by the people, and then debate it in the congress to either accept it or alter it or reject it.

As I said, in other countries there is some sort of lead for the governments with historical leads officially overseeing the currents governments directions. So there is often an oversight type of government. It does exist, how rigidly does it operate I don't know, just that there is some sort of oversight from inside. I am only trying to point out a difference.

We in the US have no royalties or lifetime leaders at all. Our governments are locally arranged and tolerated till next elections and replaced. To my thinking that is a better way and I expressed my thinking quite freely, same as you when you responded. It has been a good deal for over 200 years and we should try to keep it that way for future years too.

I tried to avoid picking on any country, I was only saying how things are different in the US from many other countries. We have a Constitution for our guiding, and that is about all I can think of. And that is in the realm of the peoples ability to modify if desired.

You can not upset me, Bob. You obviously have no knowledge of the world outside your own borders. We elect our leaders in the UK as well. The monarchy does not lead this country, nor does the House of Lords which is quickly shrinking. There is a parliament here and the leaders and MPs are elected. We are allowed to complain about them and do so, loudly. Our constitution is unwritten but is still followed.

 

[BobF]

You can not upset me, Bob. You obviously have no knowledge of the world outside your own borders. We elect our leaders in the UK as well. The monarchy does not lead this country, nor does the House of Lords which is quickly shrinking. There is a parliament here and the leaders and MPs are elected. We are allowed to complain about them and do so, loudly. Our constitution is unwritten but is still followed.

Some have no knowledge of where they are living is certainly true. I brought no harm to the UK in my comments. I have kept my comments general to avoid such claims. Some countries are run by religions, some by kingdoms, some by twisted set up like China and their communist style of government, which not longer operates as a true communist government would. You claim no direct intervention in UK and that is likely true. And yet there are certain folks in the UK territories that have a certain authority that they can bring forward on occasion if necessary. Even in nearly disjointed from the UK countries like Australia there is such a person in the shadows. I don't remember their titles, as it means nothing to me, but the government is a bit bigger than just the Parliament.

Personal comment is that I was really surprised that both the US and UK allow a person to claim citizenship and allow voting in both nations at the same time. There was a time when that would not have been allowed.

 

[Ameriscot]

Some have no knowledge of where they are living is certainly true. I brought no harm to the UK in my comments. I have kept my comments general to avoid such claims. Some countries are run by religions, some by kingdoms, some by twisted set up like China and their communist style of government, which not longer operates as a true communist government would. You claim no direct intervention in UK and that is likely true. And yet there are certain folks in the UK territories that have a certain authority that they can bring forward on occasion if necessary. Even in nearly disjointed from the UK countries like Australia there is such a person in the shadows. I don't remember their titles, as it means nothing to me, but the government is a bit bigger than just the Parliament.

Personal comment is that I was really surprised that both the US and UK allow a person to claim citizenship and allow voting in both nations at the same time. There was a time when that would not have been allowed.

Yes, it means nothing to you and therefore you shouldn't comment on things that you know nothing about and can't be bothered to learn about.

What's wrong with dual citizenship and voting in both countries? You do realize that it depends on what countries you are a citizen of, right? The US allows it with countries that are their allies.

 

[BobF]

Yes, it means nothing to you and therefore you shouldn't comment on things that you know nothing about and can't be bothered to learn about.

What's wrong with dual citizenship and voting in both countries? You do realize that it depends on what countries you are a citizen of, right? The US allows it with countries that are their allies.

This comment shows just how mixed up you yourself are. Without allowing comments on what we might not know everything about means we must all just shut up and go away. If the US is doing this I wonder why. Do those allowed to vote also pay taxes to the US to help pay for those they vote in and what they happen to vote for? They should.

 

[Ameriscot]

This comment shows just how mixed up you yourself are. Without allowing comments on what we might not know everything about means we must all just shut up and go away. If the US is doing this I wonder why. Do those allowed to vote also pay taxes to the US to help pay for those they vote in and what they happen to vote for? They should.

No, you made comments as though you knew what you were talking about - implying that a monarch rules a country and also implying some mystery person has power in Australia. Huh!?

The US is the only western country that double taxes its citizens abroad. This is why highly paid expats who are also dual citizens are giving up their US citizenship in droves. I never made the equivalent of $95K which is the cut off point for double paying taxes. I have to file US taxes every year and have to list my UK income. I get pensions from both countries.

 

[BobF]

No, you made comments as though you knew what you were talking about - implying that a monarch rules a country and also implying some mystery person has power in Australia. Huh!?

The US is the only western country that double taxes its citizens abroad. This is why highly paid expats who are also dual citizens are giving up their US citizenship in droves. I never made the equivalent of $95K which is the cut off point for double paying taxes. I have to file US taxes every year and have to list my UK income. I get pensions from both countries.

Hateful, two faced comments that show you are speaking from nowhere. What I spoke of is what I really know is a possibility of the UK and Australia. You must not know of the positions or persons I am talking of or you would have posted your knowledge. I never meant any of this hatred you are posting so it is all in your mind and ways of responding to things you know little about. Your responses are all political and not factual.

Glad to hear there is a tax position that must be followed every year. Seems to be pretty high cut off but if that is the law, so be it.

I will continue to post as I see things and not in order to get put down by someone that knows little more than me by your choice of life. I see England to be in a rather precarious economic position these days just as I see the US going down that same route.

No more of your hate filled post as your last couple inputs. Not the intent of my original posts on this thread.

 

[Ameriscot]

Hateful, two faced comments that show you are speaking from nowhere. What I spoke of is what I really know is a possibility of the UK and Australia. You must not know of the positions or persons I am talking of or you would have posted your knowledge. I never meant any of this hatred you are posting so it is all in your mind and ways of responding to things you know little about. Your responses are all political and not factual.

Glad to hear there is a tax position that must be followed every year. Seems to be pretty high cut off but if that is the law, so be it.

I will continue to post as I see things and not in order to get put down by someone that knows little more than me by your choice of life. I see England to be in a rather precarious economic position these days just as I see the US going down that same route.

No more of your hate filled post as your last couple inputs. Not the intent of my original posts on this thread.

What??!! I'm supposed to post facts when I have no clue what you are talking about? I'm not psychic!

I don't live in England. Check your map. England is only one country in the UK. It's typical that you would call the entire island England.

You agree with a tax law that requires those who work and earn in the UK only should pay tax twice on that income? And pay tax to the US when they didn't even earn the money from the US? FFS.

I give up. As usual you haven't a clue.

 

[Ameriscot]

BobF, don't bother replying. You're now on Ignore.

 

[BobF]

Thank goodness as any more of your political style of responses is not need for anyone.

Both my son and my daughter have lived in UK, as you insist, and both have enjoyed living there. My son lived there for long periods and has many friends in UK, as you insist. He has a membership in a rail road group and loved it a lot. He is currently thinking of moving back to UK, as you insist, and living there some more. He never speaks with the smart mouth about things there or here, as some seem to want to do.

Why shouldn't the US tax those making money elsewhere if they are allowed to vote for our politicians? Seems real fair to me. Vote in folks and you should pay for their efforts as well. If above $90 thousand those are well paid folks and can afford to pay a bit of tax to the US.

Time for you to allow others to post on this forum without such snide and nasty responses. I won't stop posting but maybe if you do stop your nasty attitude responses it won't matter to me or others.

I started with general responses but in the last few I have been driven to be selective and defensive. No need for that on this or any forum. I hope you really mean you won't be posting anymore.

 

[QuickSilver]

Poor BobF.. everyone is always so "nasty" to you... even someone like Ameriscot who normally isn't nasty to anyone.. Did you ever stop to ponder that?

 

[BobF]

Poor BobF.. everyone is always so "nasty" to you... even someone like Ameriscot who normally isn't nasty to anyone.. Did you ever stop to ponder that?

Yes QuickSilver, I did stop and wonder why when I post in general terms that another poster decided to use specific responses and keeps twisting the topic from general to hating the UK. None of my posts were intended to do such as I was trying to keep in a general tone. Read my posts prior to such twisted responses from one poster. No reason for such nasty comments. Many of the opposing persons comments were not true as I was being told I knew nothing. Yep. Such a sweet person that is.

And not everyone is nasty to me at all. I have some very nice UK folks that I can post with and also can write emails too. It is not the UK folks that are nasty at all. It is the US types that think they know it all and others are just stupid.

And yes, many that get caught in one of these one sided exchanges just quite the forum. So far, I have kept hanging on and trying to not be offensive. But I also do stick around and prefer not making enemies. But some folks seem to prefer to be enemies of all that don't just mimic a single line of thought.

 

[QuickSilver]

I didn't see any nasty twisted comments from Ameriscot... Not any more nasty than your comments to her. Perhaps you need to re-read some of your comments to her.

 

[Warrigal]

A clarification on some principles.

Voting rights are attached to citizenship, not payment of taxes. I am a citizen of just one nation and am entitled to vote in Australian elections whether I live in this country or elsewhere, whether I pay taxes in this country or not. In fact, I pay no income tax at all on my current level of income, yet I vote. If I were to live overseas I would still be entitled to my Australian pension too, provided a reciprocal arrangement exists between the two countries.

 

[AZ Jim]

I get so sick of BobF coming in and stating his damn fool, half cocked opinions and in the course of that insulting not only other countries but GOOD Members of this forum. I live in the same state he does and I see daily in the Phoenix area the mayhem and death caused by the results of BobF and others of his stripe and their "gun freedom". This state is jam packed with the people who release not only the wholesale guns onto the population but support those who are just as determined to take over this country with their fanatic hateful political figures. Annie and others who have been assaulted by this poster, please understand that here in Arizona every election these people lose more and more platform for their hate. Even "the toughest Sheriff in America" had come under his most serious challenges ever recently. He is a "tea party" hero. One can only speculate how the father of the "conservative" movement, Barry Goldwater, of Arizona would feel if he saw his ideas perverted by today's Republicans. I apologize to those offended by remarks demeaning to other countries and the arrogance it reflects.

 

[BobF]

I didn't see any nasty twisted comments from Ameriscot... Not any more nasty than your comments to her. Perhaps you need to re-read some of your comments to her.

So I repeat what I have said before. I was posting in neutral tones, not posting at anyone, and then she replied with some rather sharp comments about me and my posts. Likely some of my replies took on the similar tone towards her. Go to the beginnings and not just in the part she played against me and her claims of my ignorance etc. Some big difference from being neutral in judgement to be called ignorant, whatever else, she decided to dish out towards me. I still prefer my neutral approach to her pointed responses. I was talking about countries in general.

 

[AZ Jim]

Reading a reply by this poster is like trying to read a Chinese newspaper upside down and backwards. I have no idea what his point ever is.

 

[BobF]

That Jim is because you are so full of one sided hate that common sense just does not register for you.

You have to read this entire forum to see what I was posting, neutral comments, prior to being called names and such as stupid etc.. Don't waste your time trying to catch up as those remarks in this thread are just a un necessary as you post above about guns. I don't defend guns as you say and I don't push to remove guns either. That is the effort of a full blown Constitution amendment of the 2nd Amendment. So far in the US there is not enough effort to bring such a massive effort to being. Not my fault at all. If we do eliminate all guns for the real US citizens of merit, then the criminal ones will certainly rejoice.

Arizona has some very solid centered and right leaning citizens. Not enough of the far far left types to mess the entire state up just now.