Is youth wasted on the young?

[Paco Dennis]

I wonder if providence, meaning the experiences in youth, actually prepared each of us for our older age. This must be true or we have doubt about the guiding principles of nature itself. I won't go there. The youth we had was exactly what the doctor called for. the OP statement also kinda stinks of revisionist history...editorializing our history to fit a predesigned package.

 

[JBR]

Sure, now, the '50s or the 16th century, being 17 again would be a hoot!

Nathan, I think some of the comments above do pose a question for us to consider. So I'll put it to you: do you feel you'd have the maturity & perspective, at age 17, to avoid being affected by the harebrained or hurtful aspects of the internet & social media?

 

[MarkD]

But did you choose not to have kids because you were terrified of the future?

Nope, though if I'd grown up today that would have been my main reason.

For me it seemed a choice between making my best effort to understand and appreciate this life myself or deciding it was beyond me and so electing to go to seed in hopes I could help prepare a child to do what I could not. I decided the buck should stop with me.

 

[Trish]

But youth (the period between childhood and adulthood) can only ever be the preserve of the young.

It would be great though, if we could hold on to the boundless energy, the curiosity for the world around us, the belief that life lasts forever and the easy acceptance of change and new ideas that most of us had as children but, lost along the way to maturity when, I guess out of necessity, you become more cautious and, well, grown-up I guess

 

[feywon]

That's true. There is nothing inevitable about being young and being carefree. But I do think that having an opportunity for unstructured play and exercising their imagination is good for children in a way that makes becoming a well adjusted adult more likely. Though taking on ever more responsibility is also important.

There needs to be some balance and recognition of the child as separate human being with different tastes and talents, they need guidance yes and help learning to take responsibility and be accountable for their actions but there are ways to do that without heaping on punishments. Including modeling things like common courtesy, manners, civility.

Which in regard to @911's remark about kids on devices instead of more physically active pursuits:
What age are we defining as 'kids'-- up to 10 or 12? Or until they are legal adults? Because my level of agreement with 911's remark will vary depending on age because post puberty kids tend to become more interested in socializing with others. And these days that kind of requires a social media element.

Tho i suspect how they socialize varies with locale. In our small town i don't see the local youths sitting in eateries attending more to their devices than each other as i did in Laramie. But a lot of these kids grew up doing farm/ranch chores with family and probably relish being able to actually talk to other kids outside of school or church.

While i understand why in locales where mass shootings more frequent, a parent would want their child to have a cell phone that doesn't mean there can't be rules about when/where/how they may be used. Same with tablets or any internet accessible device. If parents are paying for the phone they have the responsibility to lay ground rules like our parents did about things like our bikes. Not that all of us always obeyed, but violations carried consequences.

~~~~~~~


Keep in mind that print and broadcast media play a role in our perceptions of how kids/youths are behaving and all too often these sources give more time to negative stories. And the stereotype of handheld device addiction being confined to younger generations is erroneous, especially now when many can access internet via phones. I say this as an observer because my cell phone is NOT on 24/7/365 and i access social media by desk top and kindle.

 

[feywon]

But youth (the period between childhood and adulthood) can only ever be the preserve of the young.

It would be great though, if we could hold on to the boundless energy, the curiosity for the world around us, the belief that life lasts forever and the easy acceptance of change and new ideas that most of us had as children but, lost along the way to maturity when, I guess out of necessity, you become more cautious and, well, grown-up I guess

Some of us do hold on to curiosity, wonder and even awe. Some of us retain the flexability to learn new things including different perspectives on things we thought we knew/believed.

I was fortunate my Dad taught me early to consider a variety of potential outcomes to my actions before proceeding. He told us we were free to break rules, but he would not listen to complaints about the consequences because we should have considered if the positive experience would outweigh any negative results. But the most caution producing thing in my life was in trying to be a good Mom.

Personally i never believed these physical lives lasted forever. Never understood why anyone would want to live in this form FOREVER.

Having had an NDE at 27 1/2 yrs old i've been on bonus time for half a century and suspect it helps me appreciate things others may take for granted. Maybe i'm just weird.

 

[Trish]

Some of us do hold on to curiosity, wonder and even awe. Some of us retain the flexability to learn new things including different perspectives on things we thought we knew/believed.

I was fortunate my Dad taught me early to consider a variety of potential outcomes to my actions before proceeding. He told us we were free to break rules, but he would not listen to complaints about the consequences because we should have considered if the positive experience would outweigh any negative results. But the most caution producing thing in my life was in trying to be a good Mom.

Personally i never believed these physical lives lasted forever. Never understood why anyone would want to live in this form FOREVER.

Having had an NDE at 27 1/2 yrs old i've been on bonus time for half a century and suspect it helps me appreciate things others may take for granted. Maybe i'm just weird.

Not weird at all. I have always found your posts really interesting. Your dad sounds like a wise man too.

 

[Nathan]

Nathan, I think some of the comments above do pose a question for us to consider. So I'll put it to you: do you feel you'd have the maturity & perspective, at age 17, to avoid being affected by the harebrained or hurtful aspects of the internet & social media?

Well 1960s perspective and experience wouldn't really be relevant to a 17 yr. old growing up in the 21 century. But kids nowadays do have some common ground with youth of the 50s-60s: there will always be the hurdles of peer pressure, parting with booze and drugs, romantic drama and unwanted pregnancy, to name a few.

 

[Mobilman44]

My fantasy would be to go back to the 1960s, when I was in my late teens and early twenties. I would bring with me the money I have today, and the wisdom and knowledge as well. Wow, the possibilities are endless!

 

[birdy]

I sometimes think about the carefreeness of youth. I suppose that is missing it.

 

[JBR]

Well 1960s perspective and experience wouldn't really be relevant to a 17 yr. old growing up in the 21 century. But kids nowadays do have some common ground with youth of the 50s-60s: there will always be the hurdles of peer pressure, parting with booze and drugs, romantic drama and unwanted pregnancy, to name a few.

I agree. And when I think about the overall environment that teenagers live within these days, I'm not sure just how (or how well) I'd deal with it. I imagine it's been like that with successive generations, if not way back into the past, then at least for several centuries.

 

[Old_Dame]

I don’t think so and this well respected novelist agrees with me.

Is Youth Wasted On The Young?

I don’t think so. I agree with you,@MarkD and your well-respected novelist.

In my readings, I too came across a few gems, that held my interest, partly because of the way the topics interestingly unfold in likeness:


“Of course, blaming the fiendishness of hell on God, or Satan, or Adam, or any other mythic figure was a way of avoiding recognition of the fact that its real inventors were men. Eastern sages were more frank; they said, “the torments of hell are morbid creations of the individual’s own ideas.” The ideas of the individual, however, were created by the society—in the case of hell, by the church.” —Barbra G. Walker


Old Bernard Shaw at the ripe age of 75, (born in 1856) was quite frank when quotations from him emerged in various newspapers as early as 1931, as saying, “Youth is wasted on the young.” Another ‘(morbid?) creation of an individual’s own ideas.’

And, then there was Oscar Wilde, at middle-age 40, (born 1854) who “sent a collection of thirty-five witticisms which were published under the title “Phrases and Philosophies for the Use of the Young” in 1894.” Here’s ‘one’:

“The old believe everything: the middle-aged suspect everything: the young know everything.”

 

[Capt Lightning]

I remember Mrs. L's uncle saying, 'When you're young you wish it was tomorrow. When you're old, you wish it was yesterday'.

 

[MarkD]

There needs to be some balance and recognition of the child as separate human being with different tastes and talents, they need guidance yes and help learning to take responsibility and be accountable for their actions but there are ways to do that without heaping on punishments. Including modeling things like common courtesy, manners, civility.

Which in regard to @911's remark about kids on devices instead of more physically active pursuits:
What age are we defining as 'kids'-- up to 10 or 12? Or until they are legal adults? Because my level of agreement with 911's remark will vary depending on age because post puberty kids tend to become more interested in socializing with others. And these days that kind of requires a social media element.

Tho i suspect how they socialize varies with locale. In our small town i don't see the local youths sitting in eateries attending more to their devices than each other as i did in Laramie. But a lot of these kids grew up doing farm/ranch chores with family and probably relish being able to actually talk to other kids outside of school or church.

While i understand why in locales where mass shootings more frequent, a parent would want their child to have a cell phone that doesn't mean there can't be rules about when/where/how they may be used. Same with tablets or any internet accessible device. If parents are paying for the phone they have the responsibility to lay ground rules like our parents did about things like our bikes. Not that all of us always obeyed, but violations carried consequences.

~~~~~~~


Keep in mind that print and broadcast media play a role in our perceptions of how kids/youths are behaving and all too often these sources give more time to negative stories. And the stereotype of handheld device addiction being confined to younger generations is erroneous, especially now when many can access internet via phones. I say this as an observer because my cell phone is NOT on 24/7/365 and i access social media by desk top and kindle.

And it varies in the same family and perhaps by sex? My 18 year old niece obviously loves connecting with us. We eat together when they come and afterwards she plays cards with us and her dad. She has a diagnosed social anxiety disorder which resulted in some home schooling but the playing cards seems to defray the angst enough to permit her to enjoy chatting too.

But my 15 year old nephew never joins us to eat and plays games online pretty much nonstop. He rarely responds to questions and when he does he doesn’t articulate his words very well. My brother doesn’t like it but he is coping with a 20 years younger bipolar wife who left them all so maybe he is traumatized. His sister gets mad at their mother but he just spaces out.

I agree with you that giving them good guidance is paramount. She just spent a month visiting her gender fluid partner in Texas and texted with us every day. When she got back I took her to see the musical Head Over Heels and we both loved it. It’s hard to know how to deal with the family trauma with their mother.

 

[MarkD]

Is Youth Wasted On The Young?

I don’t think so. I agree with you,@MarkD and your well-respected novelist.

In my readings, I too came across a few gems, that held my interest, partly because of the way the topics interestingly unfold in likeness:


“Of course, blaming the fiendishness of hell on God, or Satan, or Adam, or any other mythic figure was a way of avoiding recognition of the fact that its real inventors were men. Eastern sages were more frank; they said, “the torments of hell are morbid creations of the individual’s own ideas.” The ideas of the individual, however, were created by the society—in the case of hell, by the church.” —Barbra G. Walker


Old Bernard Shaw at the ripe age of 75, (born in 1856) was quite frank when quotations from him emerged in various newspapers as early as 1931, as saying, “Youth is wasted on the young.” Another ‘(morbid?) creation of an individual’s own ideas.’

And, then there was Oscar Wilde, at middle-age 40, (born 1854) who “sent a collection of thirty-five witticisms which were published under the title “Phrases and Philosophies for the Use of the Young” in 1894.” Here’s ‘one’:

“The old believe everything: the middle-aged suspect everything: the young know everything.”

Thanks for those. Maybe we need a thread for quotes we come across in our current reading. I’ve done that’ll elsewhere and can readily transfer some over. Any interest?

 

[feywon]

@MarkD "And it varies in the same family and perhaps by sex?"
And age gaps and other details: Birth order family dynamics, all n same kids share same parents or blended family?

My half sisters from my Dad's first marriage had very different early childhoods from me. I only refer to them as my 'half' sisters when it's a relevant detail in the discussion. Younger children's lives can be either negatively or positively impacted by older siblings even when full siblings as well. Mine were were mostly positive. My sons were very positive influences on my daughter, their half sister.

An older child might endure years of a parent having an addiction but the parent gets 'sober' before younger child born. Or the older child may have gotten enough of a solid foundation but then one of parents develop a mental health issue, or the marriage goes bad like some do and a later child is exposed to yelling between them from earliest memories.

As with most things about human lives and development there are MANY variations and combos of influences and even identical twins (i speak from experience as Mom of a set) may have some differences in how they process experiences.

 

[VintageBetter]

Nope, though if I'd grown up today that would have been my main reason.

For me it seemed a choice between making my best effort to understand and appreciate this life myself or deciding it was beyond me and so electing to go to seed in hopes I could help prepare a child to do what I could not. I decided the buck should stop with me.

I am so much the opposite. I always thought, believed, and worked, at making my kids much smarter and wiser than I was because my parents and even the school system, did not teach me much. I did not do as well as I had hoped to do, but then I never planned on being a single parent either. I also had many people and circumstances pulling me different directions with them.

Probably the best choice would have been to pick us all up and move back East to like NY or MA. But I know my ex would never have allowed that.

I just always thought they would all be smarter than I am. And they are. I tried to teach them all I know about life so they would have better shots at success than I ever had. I still try to teach them.

Their father? He believes in the Deus Ex Machina - the God of the Machine will swoop down and save all who believe in Jesus. Ha! Can I TELL YOU how many homeless and formerly homeless people I have met who believe in Jesus JUST FINE? LOL. No Deus ex Machina for them.

No $1 million houses for them, and yet, they faithfully follow Jesus.

Therefore, since Magic Jesus will save the righteous, nothing about any education for any children matters in their father's worldview.

 

[MarkD]

I am so much the opposite. I always thought, believed, and worked, at making my kids much smarter and wiser than I was because my parents and even the school system, did not teach me much. I did not do as well as I had hoped to do, but then I never planned on being a single parent either. I also had many people and circumstances pulling me different directions with them.

Probably the best choice would have been to pick us all up and move back East to like NY or MA. But I know my ex would never have allowed that.

I just always thought they would all be smarter than I am. And they are. I tried to teach them all I know about life so they would have better shots at success than I ever had. I still try to teach them.

Their father? He believes in the Deus Ex Machina - the God of the Machine will swoop down and save all who believe in Jesus. Ha! Can I TELL YOU how many homeless and formerly homeless people I have met who believe in Jesus JUST FINE? LOL. No Deus ex Machina for them.

No $1 million houses for them, and yet, they faithfully follow Jesus.

Therefore, since Magic Jesus will save the righteous, nothing about any education for any children matters in their father's worldview.

That is one of my criticisms of the way Christianity is practiced. The mythos itself is potent and sufficient but in its institutional efforts to spread the Christian empire, the message gets watered down, simplified and distorted.

I’d never read the expression Deus ex Machina before. Can you tell me what tradition or book it comes from? It seems to exemplify what can go wrong when people try to reduce mythos to logos and then technos, reducing the sacred to something automatic whereby individuals can get to the good place without the bother of transformation. But not every Christian or denomination perverts the mythos in this way.

 

[Pepper]

Having had an NDE at 27 1/2 yrs old i've been on bonus time for half a century and suspect it helps me appreciate things others may take for granted. Maybe i'm just weird.

Important Year, 27. Saturn Return. Great shake ups, Tumult. Not a bad thing, just a thing.

 

[davey]

In youth we can have plenty of energy and fun and risk but not perhaps ever much wisdom and life can sometimes become dangerous and emotionally tormented ; lonely and drug -induced these days. But youth can never be wasted on the young as it defines the young - the question surely asks - does youth waste itself - not according to itself - maybe by parental standards? so NO youth is young and young is youth they combine in perfect synch - one defines the other - one is the other - one cannot exist without the other?? goodnight youth!!

 

[feywon]

Anyone who has memories of being carefree, consider yourself lucky.

While i have some good memories of my childhood and teens (usually they involve doing something useful, helpful or learning to do something ne. Even if i was sitting in the crook of tree reading i had to keep alert for if Mom or Dad called to me. I don't remember ever feeling carefree. I generally felt safe and cared for, but from very early childhood (about age two) i felt some responsibility for my Mother's emotional state of being.

I would not want to revisit any stage of life, tho i value my memories. Me, i'd willing be more wrinkled and grey if i could have the energy and stamina of previous years.

 

[MarkD]

Anyone who has memories of being carefree, consider yourself lucky.

While i have some good memories of my childhood and teens (usually they involve doing something useful, helpful or learning to do something ne. Even if i was sitting in the crook of tree reading i had to keep alert for if Mom or Dad called to me. I don't remember ever feeling carefree. I generally felt safe and cared for, but from very early childhood (about age two) i felt some responsibility for my Mother's emotional state of being.

I would not want to revisit any stage of life, tho i value my memories. Me, i'd willing be more wrinkled and grey if i could have the energy and stamina of previous years.

I had responsibilities for watching over my younger siblings (and protecting them from my one older sibling) and only occasional chores. So I wasn't feral-free. But outside of school, when I wasn't babysitting I'd be out exploring the canyon lands of San Diego or reading all the books I could get hold of on wildlife. When we moved to Maryland I started working part time jobs starting in the summer between 7th and 8th grades but also spent many hours tromping through the forests around where we lived in Maryland for three years. Not perfectly free but mostly on my own reconnaissance and my mother had no time to be a helicopter parent and fortunately my father wasn't much involved.

 

[Murrmurr]

That's an interesting viewpoint. What I miss about my youth is the high level of energy, the dexterity, athleticism, and the wide-eyed wonder at every turn. I do not miss the naivety and the indifference to risky activity. Too bad we cannot have youth and wisdom all through our lifespan. We'd be a different lot for sure.

Probably not for the better, though. Everyone learns from the risks that youths take.