Israel Has Declared War after Unprecedented Hamas Attack

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ElCastor said:
Can’t speak for Europe and Canada, but deportation of US citizens based on religion has a little problem, the Constitution. What we can do is control our borders and strongly resist application of Sharia Law within our borders. As for Europe, due to their proximity to the Middle East and North Africa, their problem far outweighs ours. Israel‘s plight? I doubt it will ever be resolved.
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The basis of the deportation would be their stated objective to replace all current laws and courts with Sharia law. Sounds like insurrection to me. And the Supreme Court allowed for the forced dislocation of folks of Asian ancestory during WW2. So the lawyers can figure it out.

I know I won't be around to see this, but my grandsons will.
 
Buckeye said:
lol - musta touched a couple of nerves.
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And you can't figure out why?

Buckeye said:
Please feel free to suggest the Muslims and Jews sit around the camp fire and sing a couple of versus of Kumbaya and maybe make some s'mores. After all that has worked so well up to date.
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Muslims, Jews, and Christians (and others) lived side-by-side in Palestine peacefully and respectfully for centuries before foreign intervention during and after WWII. Palestine was a multi-cultural place where farmers and makers traded goods with each other, and physicians and mid-wives and carpenters were on-call for each other, and nobody sat around plotting the annihilation of their neighbors.
 
{shrug} Muslims have pledged to kill Jews and Christians, etc, for 1,400 years, and the events of 10/7 show that they are still trying. Hamas' leader has said that 10/7 was "just a rehearsal". Not sure how you can ignore that.

And for the record, they couldn't have "lived side-by-side in Palestine peacefully" for centuries because Palestine is a modern day construct. There was no "Palestine". But you know that.
 
I just read about what Hamas soldiers did to women on 7 October.

This can never ever be forgiven. Never have I read of such violence and evil. These were surely demons not human men.
 
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Could anyone explain how this tragedy is comparable to which side has suffered more destruction of human life?

F-mVZZwW0AA0pXd
 
Paco Dennis said:
Could anyone explain how this tragedy is comparable to which side has suffered more destruction of human life?

F-mVZZwW0AA0pXd
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I had 2 older brothers and I learned as a young child one basic life lesson: don't start a fight you can't finish. Zero sympathy for Hamas and their Palestinian supporters. And of course, cherry picking the dates and thereby the data is cowardly. For example, what would the graph look like if the dates were 10/1 to 10/7?
 
Pepper said:
Look in the face of someone you love and reconsider.
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All humans are capable of greatest good and greatest evil, depending on motivation. This world should be a beautiful place but look at the pain everywhere. Not a single person is truly good and we never learn.
Everywhere is war, from angry words to actual violence.
Even on here, arguments break out at the slightest excuse.
 
Rose65 said:
I just read about what Hamas soldiers did to women on 7 October.

This can never ever be forgiven. Never have I read of such violence and evil. These were surely demons not human men.
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Here is another you are not going to like, and neither do I. I first read about it when it happened - an appalling example of Islamic ethics in action. BTW I believe the “proper Islamic clothes” was a hair covering.

“On March 11, 2002, 15 young girls were left to die in a fire at their school in Mecca. They could have escaped the fire but were not allowed to flee the burning building as they were not wearing proper ‘Islamic’ clothes. Saudi Arabia’s Religious Police prevented the Civil Defense Officers from entering the school to save the girls and stopped the girls from coming out of the building.”

Hijab as ‘choice’: When 15 girls were left to die in a raging fire just because they were not ‘appropriately dressed’
Mecca in 2002: When Islamic fundamentalists let 15 schoolgirls burn to death because they were not wearing burqa
 
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To an earlier post, I'm a White Male and have never considered anyone of any race calling me Caucasian racist. In fact, many some forms I've filled out for doctors, etc. have included Caucasian as a race.
OneEyedDiva said:
I was never made aware that it is a racist term! How so? Who made that determination and how was it made? I'm going to ask my BFF of 46 years, who is White, what she thinks about it.
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You can ask your White Male friend here on SF. I've never considered being called Caucasian a racist term.
 
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Buckeye said:
{shrug} Muslims have pledged to kill Jews and Christians, etc, for 1,400 years, and the events of 10/7 show that they are still trying. Hamas' leader has said that 10/7 was "just a rehearsal". Not sure how you can ignore that.

And for the record, they couldn't have "lived side-by-side in Palestine peacefully" for centuries because Palestine is a modern day construct. There was no "Palestine". But you know that.
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And I assumed you knew I was talking about when Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire, before it was named Palestine. I did say *centuries*.

Radical militant Muslims use and interpret various passages from the Qu'ran, and words like Jihad, and doctrines of Mohamed's Hadith just as radical Christians use and interpret the Bible and psalms and gospels to define sin, incite violence, and to justify war, extreme prejudice, and killing your neighbors. And they've both managed to attract followers.
 
Murrmurr said:
And I assumed you knew I was talking about when Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire, before it was named Palestine. I did say *centuries*.

Radical militant Muslims use and interpret various passages from the Qu'ran, and words like Jihad, and doctrines of Mohamed's Hadith just as radical Christians use and interpret the Bible and psalms and gospels to define sin, incite violence, and to justify war, extreme prejudice, and killing your neighbors. And they've both managed to attract followers.
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When is the last time a group of "radical Christians" killed a bunch of innocent folks at a music concert, beheaded a few infants, and then took over 200 hostages? When did the last "radical Christian" leader tell us that an event like 10/7 was just a rehearsal? smh

Based strictly on your posts, you've made it clear that you, like several others on here, are a die hard Hamas supporter.
 
Naturally said:
Well, Israel has dropped leaflets in the past over Gaza to inform Gaza residents of their intentions.
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They've also made maps identifying 'blocks' where they will be bombing next, but so what. Do they think the Hamas terrorists aren't figuring out what the civilians are being told and warned of and is that why the IDF has bombed even areas they sent people to? This isn't going to end well and maybe it's time the world started pushing for a real peace with a two state solution of some sort.

Release the grip around the throat of Palestinian people gradually as small improvements come in the relationship between the two parties with a view to eventually allowing them to live real lives. Israel will have some big changes to make in their approach but it would be worth it and eventually safer than what is happening now and for years past.

Whichever Palestinians support Hamas are only doing so because 'no one else is' in their corner. But allowing them more and more freedom, and their dependence on Hamas starts to change. And ending the bombing and offering improvements in treatment allows time for healing while ending the creation of more Hamas sympathizers. I heard one talking head say that Israel is the greatest creator of Hamas supporters because of their actions against the people of Gaza.
 
againstthegrain said:
NYT Oslo Accords

I'm posting this moderated conversation w 6 panelists w a wide range of viewpoints and experience so that any of you that are actually serious about understanding what happened and why should spend some time w it. I promise you'll learn something. The time line starts in 1947, but obviously this piece of ground was an issue 100's of years before that.

Please don't over look the comments from readers of the NYT and replies from the staff. They are often equally or more insightful than the articles themselves.

The Panelists:

Omar Dajani is a professor at the McGeorge School of Law at the University of the Pacific. From 1999 to 2001, he served as a legal adviser to the Palestinian negotiating team in peace talks with Israel, participating in the summits at Camp David and Taba. He currently sits on the board of A Land for All, an Israeli-Palestinian peace group.

Dana El Kurd is an assistant professor at the University of Richmond and author of ‘‘Polarized and Demobilized: Legacies of Authoritarianism in Palestine.’’ She is also a nonresident senior fellow at the Arab Center Washington D.C.

Efraim Inbar is president of the Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security and head of the program in strategy, diplomacy and security at Shalem College in Jerusalem. He was a professor of political studies at Bar-Ilan University and the founding director of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies. He is the author of ‘‘Rabin and Israel’s National Security,’’ published in 1999.

Daniel Kurtzer was the United States ambassador to Egypt from 1997 to 2001 and the ambassador to Israel from 2001 to 2005. He is a professor at Princeton University’s School of Public and International Affairs.

Avishai Margalit is a professor emeritus at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He was the George Kennan Professor at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton from 2006 to 2011. He is a member of the Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities and a senior research fellow at the Van Leer Jerusalem Institute.

Khalil Shikaki is a professor of political science, director of the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah and a senior fellow at the Crown Center for Middle East Studies at Brandeis University. Since 1993, he has conducted more than 200 polls among Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip and, since 2000, dozens of joint polls among Palestinians and Israelis.

Limor Yehuda is a lecturer at the faculty of law at the Hebrew University and a research fellow at Haifa University and the Van Leer Jerusalem Institute. She is also the author of the recent book ‘‘Collective Equality: Democracy and Human Rights in Ethno-National Conflicts’’ and a founder of the Israeli-Palestinian peace group A Land for All.

Emily Bazelon, a staff writer for The New York Times Magazine, moderated the discussion.
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Was there a link to the panel discussion?..............sorry, didn't notice the link at the top. Going to take a look at that later.
 
Buckeye said:
When is the last time a group of "radical Christians" killed a bunch of innocent folks at a music concert, beheaded a few infants, and then took over 200 hostages? When did the last "radical Christian" leader tell us that an event like 10/7 was just a rehearsal? smh

Based strictly on your posts, you've made it clear that you, like several others on here, are a die hard Hamas supporter.
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You know, it's entirely possible to be a Palestinian supporter and not support Hamas or what they did.
 
Rose65 said:
I just read about what Hamas soldiers did to women on 7 October.

This can never ever be forgiven. Never have I read of such violence and evil. These were surely demons not human men.
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Yes you have read of such violence and evil before. I explained it to you in another thread and you responded. In 1971 the Muslim army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan attacked unarmed civilians of Bangladesh and did things even more horrific than the Muslims of Gaza did to Israelis on October 7. Over 200,000 women, mostly Hindu, were raped, tortured, mutilated and murdered.

Muslims have done this before all over the world and it has nothing to do with the borders of Palestine and Israel. It has to do with Muslim jihadis wanting to establish a world wide Islamic government based upon the laws of the Quran and Mohammad . I referred you to the book documenting these horrible atrocities called “Massacre: The Tragedy at Bangla Desh", written by a British war correspondent. And the documentation is in the International War Crimes Tribunal - Bangladesh.

Rape during the Bangladesh Liberation War - Wikipedia
 
Murrmurr said:
And I assumed you knew I was talking about when Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire, before it was named Palestine. I did say *centuries*.

Radical militant Muslims use and interpret various passages from the Qu'ran, and words like Jihad, and doctrines of Mohamed's Hadith just as radical Christians use and interpret the Bible and psalms and gospels to define sin, incite violence, and to justify war, extreme prejudice, and killing your neighbors. And they've both managed to attract followers
againstthegrain said:
NYT Oslo Accords

I'm posting this moderated conversation w 6 panelists w a wide range of viewpoints and experience so that any of you that are actually serious about understanding what happened and why should spend some time w it. I promise you'll learn something. The time line starts in 1947, but obviously this piece of ground was an issue 100's of years before that.

Please don't over look the comments from readers of the NYT and replies from the staff. They are often equally or more insightful than the articles themselves.

The Panelists:

Omar Dajani is a professor at the McGeorge School of Law at the University of the Pacific. From 1999 to 2001, he served as a legal adviser to the Palestinian negotiating team in peace talks with Israel, participating in the summits at Camp David and Taba. He currently sits on the board of A Land for All, an Israeli-Palestinian peace group.

Dana El Kurd is an assistant professor at the University of Richmond and author of ‘‘Polarized and Demobilized: Legacies of Authoritarianism in Palestine.’’ She is also a nonresident senior fellow at the Arab Center Washington D.C.

Efraim Inbar is president of the Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security and head of the program in strategy, diplomacy and security at Shalem College in Jerusalem. He was a professor of political studies at Bar-Ilan University and the founding director of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies. He is the author of ‘‘Rabin and Israel’s National Security,’’ published in 1999.

Daniel Kurtzer was the United States ambassador to Egypt from 1997 to 2001 and the ambassador to Israel from 2001 to 2005. He is a professor at Princeton University’s School of Public and International Affairs.

Avishai Margalit is a professor emeritus at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He was the George Kennan Professor at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton from 2006 to 2011. He is a member of the Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities and a senior research fellow at the Van Leer Jerusalem Institute.

Khalil Shikaki is a professor of political science, director of the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah and a senior fellow at the Crown Center for Middle East Studies at Brandeis University. Since 1993, he has conducted more than 200 polls among Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip and, since 2000, dozens of joint polls among Palestinians and Israelis.

Limor Yehuda is a lecturer at the faculty of law at the Hebrew University and a research fellow at Haifa University and the Van Leer Jerusalem Institute. She is also the author of the recent book ‘‘Collective Equality: Democracy and Human Rights in Ethno-National Conflicts’’ and a founder of the Israeli-Palestinian peace group A Land for All.

Emily Bazelon, a staff writer for The New York Times Magazine, moderated the discussion.
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Just finished the article and am so glad you shared it. From my reading, it seems like there were moments when both sides didn't deal honestly and other times when assumptions were made in error and never clarified. Also that the PLO weren't really equipped to properly run a functional government at that time and should have had major guidance but didn't get it.
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So how do you get rid of a half started post that you decide you misunderstood or whatever?
 
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Paco Dennis said:
The term “Caucasian” has a complicated history and is considered by some to be a racist term. The term was first used in the late 1700s by German philosopher Christoph Meiners, who believed in the pseudoscientific theory of scientific racism. Meiners thought that people from the Caucasus region had the “whitest, most blooming, and most delicate skin” and viewed non-Caucasians as inferior and “animal-like.” German scientist Johann Blumenbach added to Meiners’ theories, saying that people from Georgia were the most beautiful on Earth; therefore, it must have been the birthplace of humanity.

He would go on to refine his theory of race, believing that all European people came from Georgia and were all part of the same race: Caucasian. Blumenbach created four other categories of people that were “degenerate forms of God’s original creation.” These included: Mongolian (the yellow race), Malyan (the brown race), Ethiopian (the black race), and American (the red race).

These racial classifications would go on to be embraced by the United States. After a series of important legal decisions involving the term Caucasian, it has been forged it into our collective vocabulary, and is still used to refer to white people to this day. However, some academics have called for the term to be banned in scientific studies and papers because it is “associated with a racist classification of humans” 1. It is important to note that the term “Caucasian” is not a scientifically accurate term and is geographically inaccurate as well
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Thank you for the information Paco.
 
seadoug said:
To an earlier post, I'm a White Male and have never considered anyone of any race calling me Caucasian racist. In fact, many some forms I've filled out for doctors, etc. have included Caucasian as a race.

You can ask your White Male friend here on SF. I've never considered being called Caucasian a racist term.
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Thank you Doug❣️I also remember when Caucasian was on forms. I believe it was on the census forms at one time. I asked my BFF, who as I mentioned is White, about it yesterday. She was surprised by that and said she never heard that it was a racist term either. She lives in a resort area full of older folks, some in their 90's who she's friends with. She said she's going to ask them.
 
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