Israel reduces Hamas to final holdout in Khan Younis

Robb.hisself said:
Israel has achieved what it has always wanted - freedom from harrassment. That was the goal.
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And without immense monetary and military support from the US. I knew they didn't need it; the Israeli military is quite capable.

I imagine the US will step in to aid Palestine, though, after this is over....and possibly rebuild it, or try to.
 

The U.S. has supported Israel in various ways since the October 7th attacks by Hamas, such as:

These actions have shown the U.S.'s unwavering support for Israel, but have also drawn criticism from international leaders, human rights organizations, and UN officials for not putting an end to the fighting that has killed over 17,400 Palestinians and roughly 1,100 Israelis since October 7.
 
This is a difficult question to answer, as different sources may have different methods of counting and identifying the casualties. According to the Gaza Health Ministry, which is run by Hamas, over 17,000 Palestinians have been killed in the Gaza Strip since the October 7th attacks by Israel[COLOR=var(--cib-color-foreground-accent-primary)]1https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2023_Israel–Hamas_war. However, this number may include Hamas fighters, civilians killed by Hamas rockets, and people who died from other causes[COLOR=var(--cib-color-foreground-accent-primary)]2[/COLOR][COLOR=var(--cib-color-foreground-accent-primary)]3[/COLOR]. The Israeli military claims that they killed 1,500 Hamas fighters during the initial attack, and that this number is included in the Hamas toll[COLOR=var(--cib-color-foreground-accent-primary)]2[/COLOR]. However, this claim has not been independently verified, and may be an underestimate or an exaggeration.[/COLOR]
One possible way to estimate the proportion of Hamas fighters among the Palestinian casualties is to compare the ratio of combatants to civilians in previous Gaza conflicts. For example, in the 2014 war, the UN reported that 2,251 Palestinians were killed, of whom 1,462 (65%) were civilians and 789 (35%) were militants[COLOR=var(--cib-color-foreground-accent-primary)]1https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2023_Israel–Hamas_war. If we assume a similar ratio for the current war, then we can estimate that out of the 17,000 Palestinians killed, about 5,950 (35%) were Hamas fighters and 11,050 (65%) were civilians. However, this is only a rough approximation, and it may not reflect the actual situation on the ground, as the intensity, duration, and tactics of the current war may differ from the previous ones. Therefore, the exact number of Hamas fighters killed remains unknown and disputed.[/COLOR]
 
Hamas calls for the genocide of Israel and all Jewish people and has placed that agenda on the world stage while refusing to stand down.
So the choice is either no Hamas or no Israel. I chose no Hamas and stand with Israel ... how ever long it takes.

If Israel wanted the genocide of all Palestinians and at this point since Oct 7th, what do you think the casualty total would be?
Obviously Israel is only trying to eliminate Hamas ... who are hiding in Gaza ... and Qatar.
 
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I just thought of something that could help others understand my perspective. I leave the "God" existence question unanswered. It is an opinion, and I don't have one. Which makes how I view the world dynamics in a humanistic framework.

My life's work has been to relieve suffering where it erupts. By whatever means possible. I don't take sides because it exaggerates the importance of one side, while demeaning the other. I hope for negotiations to work out the conflict. I never support war. Never. My reasoning will seem sloppy to many, and I admit, I am not very adept at making a case for peace. I just do my best.

It is never personal, and I understand why others try to convince others that their side is in the right. None of those narratives are acceptable to me. Peace is the whole goal, achieved by dialog, not violence.
 
Paco Dennis said:
I just thought of something that could help others understand my perspective. I leave the "God" existence question unanswered. It is an opinion, and I don't have one. Which makes how I view the world dynamics in a humanistic framework.

My life's work has been to relieve suffering where it erupts. By whatever means possible. I don't take sides because it exaggerates the importance of one side, while demeaning the other. I hope for negotiations to work out the conflict. I never support war. Never. My reasoning will seem sloppy to many, and I admit, I am not very adept at making a case for peace. I just do my best.

It is never personal, and I understand why others try to convince others that their side is in the right. None of those narratives are acceptable to me. Peace is the whole goal, achieved by dialog, not violence.
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You completely misunderstand radical Islamic terrorists. Your 1960s kum by ya nonsense does not work with them and it never will. You really need to grow-up and take off the rose colored glasses! GEEZ!
 
Paco Dennis said:
I hope for negotiations to work out the conflict. I never support war. Never.
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Dennis, the Hamas Covenant of 1988 states the following (in other words, Paco Dennis may want negotiations, but Hamas will never allow it. Not gonna happen. Dead in the water.)
"Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the [Palestinian] question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Muslim problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realizing the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Muslims as arbitrators. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?"
 
When there is no dynamic actively engaged threat ... there is peace.
You have chosen a side and made it personal with your personal comments.
I understand why you try to convince others that your side is in the right but none of your narratives are acceptable to me.
Peace is the whole goal, achieved by whatever means necessary to eliminate a dynamic actively engaged threat of total genocide intent since 1988. End it and have peace once and for all. When Hamas is eliminated, there may be time for appropriate dialog ... again.
 
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There are people who won't ever settle for peace. They have an agenda & will do everything in their power to achieve their goal & annihilate others for whatever reason they believe in. That reason doesn't have to make sense to anyone else but them. This is one of those cases.

When this happens, the people who have been threatened with total destruction have to do whatever is necessary to survive. It's not going to be without violence or death. Pleading for peace & mercy from those who are want your death isn't going to end well for you. You will die.

It also doesn't matter what anyone else thinks as they haven't been the ones threatened with death. Telling someone who is being assaulted & receiving death threats to just sit back & do nothing & take it is beyond words. Do they really think that the bad guys aren't going to come after them & their families next?

Hamas & other like them have to be stopped once & for all.
 
I'd be interested to hear how those individuals getting so worked up about the Palestinian humanitarian crisis (NOT saying there isn't one or that it should be ignored!) are helping the humanitarian crisis in our own cities... the homeless. The hungry. The opioid horror. Are you out there pounding the streets to help people HERE? I have... I decided years ago that I'm not just going to be a keyboard warrior clutching my pearls and letting my bleeding heart splash all over town. I'd love to hear stories about humanitarian aid that isn't just words on a keyboard.

I have FED the hungry... not just called out indignantly that they should be fed.
I have done crisis counseling and thankfully talked a few people out of some really nasty stuff.
I have handed out coats, shoes, and scarves.
I have held and cuddled addicted newborns.
I have SEEN appreciation in those eyes.
 
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CallMeKate said:
I'd be interested to hear how those individuals getting so worked up about the Palestinian humanitarian crisis (NOT saying there isn't one or that it should be ignored!) are helping the humanitarian crisis in our own cities... the homeless. The hungry. The opiod horror. Are you out there pounding the streets to help people HERE? I have... I decided years ago that I'm not just going to be a keyboard warrior clutching my pearls and letting my bleeding heart splash all over town. I'd love to hear stories about humanitarian aid that isn't just words on a keyboard.

I have FED the hungry... not just called out indignantly that they should be fed.
I have done crisis counseling and thankfully talked a few people out of some really nasty stuff.
I have handed out coats, shoes, and scarves.
I have held and cuddled addicted newborns.
I have SEEN appreciation in those eyes.
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The same goes for veterans. There are a lot of us on here. We served too.
 
Buckeye said:
People who say they aren't taking sides have taken a side, but are too cowardly to say so. But on here, they expose whose side they are on by the posts they make.

Ain't hard to figure out.
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I just don't get how P can stand up for D when D supports people who want to decapitate P's "people." Is P's claim false? I don't get it, but, then I go ballistic if someone says something bad about my dog, let alone my family. Whatever. I'm just getting this all out of my system. I know too many true Jewish people and Israelis to let one questionable person turn me against them. I stand by Israel.
 
CallMeKate said:
I'd be interested to hear how those individuals getting so worked up about the Palestinian humanitarian crisis (NOT saying there isn't one or that it should be ignored!) are helping the humanitarian crisis in our own cities... the homeless. The hungry. The opioid horror. Are you out there pounding the streets to help people HERE? I have... I decided years ago that I'm not just going to be a keyboard warrior clutching my pearls and letting my bleeding heart splash all over town. I'd love to hear stories about humanitarian aid that isn't just words on a keyboard.

I have FED the hungry... not just called out indignantly that they should be fed.
I have done crisis counseling and thankfully talked a few people out of some really nasty stuff.
I have handed out coats, shoes, and scarves.
I have held and cuddled addicted newborns.
I have SEEN appreciation in those eyes.
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That’s great Kate that you are out helping people. I helped many people in my career in human services and have continued in retirement for the past 11 years to help the homeless, veterans, etc as well as animals.

Honestly I think we have gone overboard helping migrants trying to enter this country while our own citizens suffer and are homeless. I also worry about all the foreign aid we give with the great need in our own country.

I don’t ever remember a time with so many problems and truly horrible suffering occurring in the world but it may just be that I have more time now being semi retired than when I was raising kids, going to college and working so I am noticing more. Anyway I’m out of this discussion because I don’t have the answers and find dwelling on it disturbing.
 
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