Israel's "7 Front War" and Assassination of Iranian General: Destruction in Gaza

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The Middle East, The Med area are most likely the basket of modern man and the book of knowledge and life is burned into the region. There will be no end to it all ever. The civilizations will change but the onward outlook will always be conflicts. What might the big picture look like? China / India conflicted. N.Korea S. Korea / Japan conflicted. Iran / Iraq / Syria / Lebanon Conflicted.
Russia / Ukraine / Nato conflicted. China / Tiawan / USA conflicted. South America mostly conflicted. Africa mostly conflicted.
Australia / South Pacific / Philippians / Vietnam / China Tibet / Tiawan mostly conflicted. 30- / 20- US states mostly conflicted. Russian troops in Africa causing chaos most likely now. Can the Repub's and Demo's meet in the Capital Pubs and toast a good days work or just throw MT beer bottles across the bars at each other, the Entertainment quitting and the Bar Bouncer tossing. It just goes on. Yep its all a money pit !
 

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Pepper said:
Hundreds of "innocent" Palestinians cheered for 9/11. They jeered in the streets with their Kalashnikovs raised at the arrival of the hostages. Some "innocent" Palestinian families are holding Israeli hostages in their homes. As far as I can see there are no "innocent" Palestinian adult males, or if there are, their numbers are miniscule.
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And Israeli's gathered on hilltops to watch Gaza being hit with a multitude of bombs both now and back in 2014 and they partied. So what is your point? That both sides have their own awful people?
 
Murrmurr said:
But isn't it unlike Jewishness to overreact to race-based aggression? Historically, they usually moved to more peaceful places, often at great distances, sacrificing their property, community, and even their rabbis and places of worship.

Is Zionism the difference here?
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I don't think they simply moved to other peaceful places because they were peacemakers. I think they probably left (or were rounded up) because they were outnumbered in their localities. Even the Warsaw ghetto saw an effort at an uprising where the trapped Jews fought back with gasoline bottles, handguns and an assortment of weapons gathered together by resistance fighters......but they were outnumbered by the Nazi's.

Look up the Hagana and the Irgun. Jewish groups that were more than willing to turn to terrorist activities. The Hagana were implicated in several Palestinian village massacres and even fought against the British several times after WW2, while the Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in 1946, a hotel which was used as a British administrative headquarters at the time. I believe both groups were later absorbed into the IDF.

Zionism is about secular patriotism but they make use of a religious smoke screen to encourage even more loyalty. That's why there are so many Orthodox Jews who are marching with pro-Palestinian protests in the USA. They're feeling is that God did not bring the Jews back to the promised land as Christians in the west like to say, that the return was organized by Britain to solve the 'problem' of Jewish holocaust victims having nowhere to go. The British even considered sending them to Uganda until the Jews declared they had no links to that place. Something along those lines.
 

Murrmurr said:
But I mentioned they left everything behind; sacrificed their homes, communities....I forgot to mention their livelihoods. Goes without saying they had to start all over again when they finally got where they were going (maybe that's why building a business seems to be in their DNA as well).

And this makes Israel all the more precious, right? And they created a constitution that mentions peace and be-and-let-be all over it. And I get it, they're done with moving and sacrificing everything they have and built, I'm just saying it seems atypical that they want to completely destroy a people, even Palestinians. And I'm not arguing whether it is or isn't justified, I'm saying it's atypical.

And I still want to know, Is this Zionism? That's one thing mom never mentioned or explained.
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There is a website where you can read collected statements of Israeli government officials from the beginning of 'new' Israel. They are rife with comments about Palestinians being like animals or insects, having no right to claim anything, taking all that they have including their lives.......it isn't atypical that they want to destroy the Palestinians. It's what they have always 'hoped' for.

And it seems to me that what is happening to the Palestinian people is much like what America and Canada (and probably other nations) did, to the indigenous peoples who lived in our countries before we got here. In Canada, Jeffrey Amherst in 1763, handed out small pox blankets in winters.

Another had bands show up at an outpost by promising them meat to sustain them and prevent starvation (they'd been eating grass to stay alive at that point) , and when they got there, there was no meat and Thomas Quinn, the Indian Agent declared it an 'April fools joke' and turned them away. And the USA has the Trail of Tears..... Indigenous people have been abused and oppressed since forever.

In the case of the Palestinians, it's happening in full view of the world and while those of us who did it long ago (?), have started to recognize that kind of oppression as horrific.
 
Debrah N. said:
I don't think they simply moved to other peaceful places because they were peacemakers. I think they probably left (or were rounded up) because they were outnumbered in their localities.
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I think you are a legitimate anti semite, looking for a reason to express it. I have never thought or felt that before of a forum member, but you, You are Over the Top.

It's my 'Spidey Sense' hard at work. I know it when I see it. However, for peace I will give you the benefit of doubt, that you are just not aware how carelessly you throw words around.
 
Debrah N. said:
I don't think they simply moved to other peaceful places because they were peacemakers. I think they probably left (or were rounded up) because they were outnumbered in their localities. Even the Warsaw ghetto saw an effort at an uprising where the trapped Jews fought back with gasoline bottles, handguns and an assortment of weapons gathered together by resistance fighters......but they were outnumbered by the Nazi's.

Look up the Hagana and the Irgun. Jewish groups that were more than willing to turn to terrorist activities. The Hagana were implicated in several Palestinian village massacres and even fought against the British several times after WW2, while the Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in 1946, a hotel which was used as a British administrative headquarters at the time. I believe both groups were later absorbed into the IDF.

Zionism is about secular patriotism but they make use of a religious smoke screen to encourage even more loyalty. That's why there are so many Orthodox Jews who are marching with pro-Palestinian protests in the USA. They're feeling is that God did not bring the Jews back to the promised land as Christians in the west like to say, that the return was organized by Britain to solve the 'problem' of Jewish holocaust victims having nowhere to go. The British even considered sending them to Uganda until the Jews declared they had no links to that place. Something along those lines.
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You don't have that right.

For centuries, Jews were forced from their towns, cities, villages, and communities because they were Jews.

The Hagana (meaning The Defense in Hebrew) was a small paramilitary group in the 1920s comprised of poorly trained Jews with guns who decided to stop Arabs from killing Jewish civilian men, women, and children traveling to and from Jerusalem. They actually did a pretty lousy job, but they had become quite a bit more sophisticated when they disbanded in 1948 and became part of the IDF.
 
CallMeKate said:
It would be lovely if Hamas were a state or country that would just see the wisdom in "giving up." But they are a terrorist organization, not a nation.

As for negotiations, we only need to read the Hamas Covenant, Article 13. It's their "Bible." They will not negotiate.

Peaceful Solutions, Initiatives and International Conferences:​
Article Thirteen:
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."

Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with.
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What I have been hearing is that When Netanyahu came to power he started supporting Hamas. He allowed for contributions of large amounts of money and supplies. He didn't want the PA to consolidate power in both Gaza and the West Bank. He didn't want a 2 state solution. He always wanted Israel to have all of the land for the Israelites. Hamas organized and it worked for awhile but Hamas didn't like the occupation.
What is weird to me is why did Hamas declare their

Hamas Covenant in August 1988​

Apparently it is a religious thing. If you don't like Allah...your dead. So they have been waiting all this time to kill all the Israelis.?

I read all the articles in that document. Man, it is hard core stuff.

Article 31:

Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam. It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror.
BECAUSE THEY WANT TO CONTROL THE WHOLE THING!
I don't think the majority of Muslims who are faithful to Islam...as we have some fine examples of on the SF...care at all about controlling anybody. They are lovely people. So this nightmare ( Hamas ) that Netanyahu helped, turned against them all. I must be missing something, this is all to stupid a plot to believe "leaders" could conceive. Unless the higher you go up the political ladder the stupider you become.

I wanted to thank you for quoting that. It led me to reading the whole document. I have been educated, and more confused.

Doctrine of Hamas
 
papa tiger said:
The Middle East, The Med area are most likely the basket of modern man and the book of knowledge and life is burned into the region. There will be no end to it all ever. The civilizations will change but the onward outlook will always be conflicts. What might the big picture look like? China / India conflicted. N.Korea S. Korea / Japan conflicted. Iran / Iraq / Syria / Lebanon Conflicted.
Russia / Ukraine / Nato conflicted. China / Tiawan / USA conflicted. South America mostly conflicted. Africa mostly conflicted.
Australia / South Pacific / Philippians / Vietnam / China Tibet / Tiawan mostly conflicted. 30- / 20- US states mostly conflicted. Russian troops in Africa causing chaos most likely now. Can the Repub's and Demo's meet in the Capital Pubs and toast a good days work or just throw MT beer bottles across the bars at each other, the Entertainment quitting and the Bar Bouncer tossing. It just goes on. Yep its all a money pit !
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Agreed. A money pit. Arms dealing. Big arms. Monstrous arms. When we are all hurting for a lack of a working middle class, and live check to check, the Military Industrial complex is doing great. Maybe it WILL trickle down to us all. A war economy seems to work out for everybody. Why!!! Why do we make killing our enemies the basis for our survival.

I am hoping that the masses wake up and do something different. I don't know exactly what, but something very different.
 
Debrah N. said:
I don't think they simply moved to other peaceful places because they were peacemakers. I think they probably left (or were rounded up) because they were outnumbered in their localities. Even the Warsaw ghetto saw an effort at an uprising where the trapped Jews fought back with gasoline bottles, handguns and an assortment of weapons gathered together by resistance fighters......but they were outnumbered by the Nazi's.

Look up the Hagana and the Irgun. Jewish groups that were more than willing to turn to terrorist activities. The Hagana were implicated in several Palestinian village massacres and even fought against the British several times after WW2, while the Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in 1946, a hotel which was used as a British administrative headquarters at the time. I believe both groups were later absorbed into the IDF.

Zionism is about secular patriotism but they make use of a religious smoke screen to encourage even more loyalty. That's why there are so many Orthodox Jews who are marching with pro-Palestinian protests in the USA. They're feeling is that God did not bring the Jews back to the promised land as Christians in the west like to say, that the return was organized by Britain to solve the 'problem' of Jewish holocaust victims having nowhere to go. The British even considered sending them to Uganda until the Jews declared they had no links to that place. Something along those lines.
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I have seen this Rabbi speak. He claims Zionism is NOT in accordance with Judaism! That it is a distortion of the truths in the Torah. He vehemently apposes it. He thinks, as many do, that Israel should remain "stateless".? Is that correct? They are against this Zionist aggression of war. I wonder if Bibi is pulling all the plugs because this is his last stand before he goes to prison. His last chance to create a Jewish homeland, and be the hero that does it.?
 
Paco Dennis said:
I have seen this Rabbi speak. He claims Zionism is NOT in accordance with Judaism! That it is a distortion of the truths in the Torah. He vehemently apposes it. He thinks, as many do, that Israel should remain "stateless".? Is that correct? They are against this Zionist aggression of war. I wonder if Bibi is pulling all the plugs because this is his last stand before he goes to prison. His last chance to create a Jewish homeland, and be the hero that does it.?
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Do you really think ALL Jews speak with one mind? My father used to say, 3 Jews, 6 opinions. What do you think "On the Other Hand..." means? The Jewish homeland has been created. It's called Israel.

Netanyahu is, IMO, a pig of ill repute. I have never agreed or supported him, never in the thirty years I've known of him.

But you, Paco, that above paragraph is so ....... shallow.
 
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Pepper said:
I think you are a legitimate anti semite, looking for a reason to express it. I have never thought or felt that before of a forum member, but you, You are Over the Top.

It's my 'Spidey Sense' hard at work. I know it when I see it. However, for peace I will give you the benefit of doubt, that you are just not aware how carelessly you throw words around.
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What about questioning "Zionism"? Or the idea the there IS a group of Israeli's that do want to have only one state and that being Israel, on the land they are taking now. Can we call that Zionist? Are there such Israeli's running the show right now? This isn't anything anti-Semitic. But it is possible to have a corrupt Government run by a false narrative of power. I think that is a legitimate question that is not anti-Semitic.
 
I never equate disagreement with Israeli policies to be necessarily anti semitic. Hamas is corrupt too, in your opinion, yes or no?
 
It is too late to question the existence of the state of Israel. If you do, then yes, you, at this point in time, at this time of history, then yes, you are an anti semite.

Einstein would agree with that. So would Ben Ferencz
 
Pepper said:
It is too late to question the existence of the state of Israel. If you do, then yes, you, at this point in time, at this time of history, then yes, you are an anti semite.

Einstein would agree with that. So would Ben Ferencz
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There are many who disagree also. They are not anti-Semitic.
 
Pepper said:
A subject on which you know little. Runs deep, comes out in surprising ways...
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This "subject" is critical to the American public. Yes, many of us are not Jewish historians, and yes, we get most of our information from mass media, and yes, public option in the world is becoming favorable to the Palestinian plight, and now other countries are beginning to get into the conflict. So, it is this ignorant, shallow, ant-Semite that is going to the poles to vote on more war or not. Please direct me to the ultimate source of wisdom so that I might be able to make the fairest and best choices possible.
 
Don M. said:
The longer these wars in Israel and Ukraine drag on, the more likely that we will be "sucked in" to actively "participate". I'm starting to see these wars as a "slow motion" start to WWIII, where there will be NO winners.
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For the longest time, I denied that "being sucked in" would happen this time. But then I remembered that statement, "Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it." And yeah, I think forgetfulness may lead to being sucked in. 🥺 I don't, however, think it would lead to a WWIII.
 
I wouldn't say anything to you or anybody here that I would regret. I am interested in this extremely important subject that is getting out of hand. I think the debate on whether somebody is an anti-Semite for questioning the genocide in Palestine is over. Too many people of all faiths are starting to see Israel as the bad guy.

That leaves America in a awkward position. All the talk about how Israel needs support is fading. Too many deaths and total devastation are being witnessed daily in mass media. The worm is turning. Calling people names, and judging their character is useless. It is war now, and it is escalating. All the righteousness on earth from Allah, to Yahweh is not going to do a thing. Death and destruction follow. What are we going to do now?
 

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