Jesus, Son of God, or Just a Wish?

SeniorBen

SeniorBen

Senior Member
Teacher Terry said:
I have read the entire Bible when I attended a Lutheran college. It’s full of contradictions. It’s a bunch of stories to help explain a scary world to the uneducated people of those times. People don’t need religion to have a moral compass.
Click to expand...
Good people don't need religion to provide a moral compass, but bad people sure do. Or they need something to keep their instincts under control. There may be a few who would commit acts of evil if not for the Bible and their religion.
 

gruntlabor

gruntlabor

New Member
Location
Alaska, Age 80
George1959 said:
Sigmund Freud once wrote "it's not God who created man, but man who created God". ... I think, by looking at the state of the so-called civilization, as it is now, it seems unlikely that God exists. Regarding Jesus, I just don't know.
Click to expand...
:) God gave control of the earth to Satan. (John 14:30)
and
If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him. --Voltaire
 
David777

David777

Senior Member
Location
Silicon Valley
Alligatorob said:
I think he probably existed. The question is, is he divine?
Click to expand...

The question of whether or not Jesus or "God" is divine is really about the three O’s, favorites of theological philosophers, Omniscience, Omnipotence, and Omnipresence. IMO, the wrong question by those thinking small. Traditional Christian dogma is squarely, can do anything, anytime, anywhere like it is all magic, actions without forces. Scripture in the OT or NT very much doesn't read so. Everything God (or Jesus) does is never just like going POOF and scripture that might be interpreted so can also be interpreted as conveniently simply leaving out enough details. Believing in the 3 OOO's is of tremendous value to preachers that then can create all manner of magical reasons for their flock members to believe including the common narrative that God has all these elaborate plans for each person regardless how good or evil, loves everyone the same, and is continuously monitoring and interacting with what they are doing as in "he's God isn't he?" Oh how convenient...but not supported by more than really vague scripture.

No one is speaking into my ears or dreams so this person can only logically speculate. The other issue that bears on being "divine" is how anthropomorphic Christian religions make God out to be sort of another Earth monkey like us as though we are the ultimate forms in the universe. (Used to be the Center of the Universe too.) That particularly plays out in all the blabber about the Holy Trinity where small minded can't get past how it doesn't make sense to have 3 people in one (monkey) body blah blah blah. No No and No, we are not in the center of the Universe with billions of galaxies each with billions of star systems with planets. Ain't all about us. It makes much more sense that God does NOT have a body like ours, in fact Bible scripture relates a cloud-like form in Moses era though Jesus may have a form so but what is inside that body is more likely to be some mostly non-organic complexly oscillating electromagnetic brain fields container duplicating impedances of organic brains some race of ancient Ultimate Intelligent Entities have developed. Especially what is related to as the Holy Spirit. And that does make the possibility of eternal life possible for any Earth life with neural brains possible including your puppy Fido and goldfish Cleo.
 
Mitch86

Mitch86

Member
Location
Connecticut, USA
The proof of God's existence is DEATH. As our suffering grows in life and peaks in the 90's, it could become unbearable. Then God steps in and takes us to Heaven and all our suffering ends. Death takes us all and Death IS GOD!!

Here is yet another view of Jesus:

 
Tommy

Tommy

Senior Member
Location
New Hampshire
I can understand that there are some who are unable to accept that there is anything that is beyond our physical world; those things that we can see and measure and test. As a scientist, I'm very familiar with that paradigm. I personally believe that our universe and everything in it is created and controlled by and for an entity that exists in a dimension that far, far exceeds our own in every way. Like many others, I call that entity God.

I believe that God is eternal - that is, he exists outside of time because what we call "time" is simply part of His creation. I believe that He has multiple facets. The ones we know of, my fellow Christians and I refer to as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I believe that God sent the Son into His creation, to earth, as a human; a child born to a young virgin named Mary. He was sent specifically to teach by word and deed, to die at the hands of a corrupted religion, and to be raised again in glory in order to reconcile, through faith, a portion of mankind to Himself. I believe that those who He reconciles through their faith are forgiven for their corrupted condition and will live on with Him in eternity.

All of this takes what would seem to be a huge leap of faith, but faith is a funny thing. I don't think I would ever have been able to make that leap on my own, but nonetheless, here I am. His offer of redemption is made to all people but not all will accept it. Faith isn't a function of intelligence, or health, or age, or race, or socioeconomic status, or culture. It's a personal decision made by an individual to accept His offer and to rely on His promise. It's a promise I'm absolutely certain He will keep.

And yes, Mitch. Music can be both a show of praise and love for Him and also an expression of our joy for His generous gift. I enjoy it a lot! :)
 
Mitch86

Mitch86

Member
Location
Connecticut, USA
I believe that Jesus is the Son of God for those who want to believe Him. Thus, only believers get His help. Non-believers have to still accept everything that happens to them anyway without the emotional help which Jesus grants to us to accept serious illness and death. Just think of the Serenity Prayer: "God grant me the Serenity to accept everything we cannot change, the courage and strength to change what we can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

At age 88 I think of Jesus calling me to Suppertime for all His believers:

 
Last edited:
George1959

George1959

Member
Location
Germany
Old Salt said:
Here is my proof (You don't have to believe it, I sympathize, I was a militant atheist):

During a depressed period in my life I cried out one night "God if you are there, help me!" And found myself unexpectedly in a sea of light, experiencing pure love and a joy I had never known before. When I told my brother some time later what had happened, he grinned: "Psychiatrists have a word for people like you!" But here is the clincher, my present anchor to my weak faith:

I was actually guided to a passage in the book of James, which turned out to be very pertinent to my prolonged experience of God, and I had never held a Bible in my hands before. My wife had to scramble for hers so we could check things out. But now, years later, I still believe but, like so many others, I have seen so many things that disturb me deeply, that I frequently cry out "God where are you?" And my daily prayer: "God I believe, help Thou my unbelief!"

Apologies for taking up so much of your time!
Click to expand...
Never apologize for what you are believing.
Once I've read that the British actor Alec Guinnes was in great fear that his son could die. He was no Catholic but went to a Roman Catholic church and prayed to God. His son survived. Guinnes converted to the Roman Catholic church after this.
 
George1959

George1959

Member
Location
Germany
chic said:
I remember that from the sixties. I've been going through such difficult times lately I question even the existence of God. If there is one, he must hate me. :cry:
Click to expand...
Chic, I question the existence of God too. But if he exists he wouldn't hate you or he wouldn't be God. It's such simple.
 
Pepper

Pepper

SF VIP
Location
NYC
George1959 said:
Chic, I question the existence of God too. But if he exists he wouldn't hate you or he wouldn't be God. It's such simple.
Click to expand...
God doesn't exist and what @Tommy said: " I believe that God sent the Son into His creation, to earth, as a human; a child born to a young virgin named Mary. He was sent specifically to teach by word and deed, to die at the hands of a corrupted religion, and to be raised again in glory"
is responsible for the deaths of millions of Jewish people.

You want to believe in virgins having babies go right ahead, I'm not trying to stop you. But it stops when millions have died for your right to believe it, and it's starting again.
 
Last edited:
George1959

George1959

Member
Location
Germany
Pepper said:
God doesn't exist and what @Tommy said: " I believe that God sent the Son into His creation, to earth, as a human; a child born to a young virgin named Mary. He was sent specifically to teach by word and deed, to die at the hands of a corrupted religion, and to be raised again in glory"
is responsible for the deaths of millions of Jewish people.

You want to believe in virgins having babies go right ahead, I'm not trying to stop you. But it stops when millions have died for your right to believe it, and it's starting again.
Click to expand...
Every religion which makes the statement that there exists God, he may be called Jahwe (Jews), or the Lord (Christians) or Allah (Muslims) would be wrong, if he doesn't exist. I just don't know if he exists, but I don't believe in him and I don't care. But a world without God is not better. Stalin's communism killed 60 million people and Mao's 100 million. It's not God who makes the world an ugly place, it's man.
 
chic

chic

SF VIP
Location
U.S.
George1959 said:
Every religion which makes the statement that there exists God, he may be called Jahwe (Jews), or the Lord (Christians) or Allah (Muslims) would be wrong, if he doesn't exist. I just don't know if he exists, but I don't believe in him and I don't care. But a world without God is not better. Stalin's communism killed 60 million people and Mao's 100 million. It's not God who makes the world an ugly place, it's man.
Click to expand...
I agree. Humans are the worst of the animal kingdom. :mad:
 
Gary O'

Gary O'

SF VIP
Location
Oregon
George1959 said:
It's not God who makes the world an ugly place, it's man.
Click to expand...
Reminds me of the parable of The Good Samaritan
I imagine most of us know that one
Samaritans and Jews pretty much hated each other
But
There was One

Luke 10

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

Guess who the Samaritan was?

....and, yes
Like the Samaritan
He is returning
 
oldlongwalker

oldlongwalker

Member
Location
Los Angeles, CA
George1959 said:
Every religion which makes the statement that there exists God, he may be called Jahwe (Jews), or the Lord (Christians) or Allah (Muslims) would be wrong, if he doesn't exist. I just don't know if he exists, but I don't believe in him and I don't care. But a world without God is not better. Stalin's communism killed 60 million people and Mao's 100 million. It's not God who makes the world an ugly place, it's man.
Click to expand...
There was the time God killed the entire population of the planet except for one family.
 
Gary O'

Gary O'

SF VIP
Location
Oregon
oldlongwalker said:
There was the time God killed the entire population of the planet except for one family.
Click to expand...
Yup

'The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time'

'But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be'

We're gettin' there now
 


Top