Jesus, Son of God, or Just a Wish?

oldaunt said:
Funny thing about that; I am NOT religious, but I don't believe in abortion used as birth control. Women should be smart enough to use the actual products made for that. Your body, right? Be smart enough to NOT get it pregnant.
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That’s another thread. 😎
And what’s your personal opinion about birth control got to do with this thread or abortions? Women don’t get pregnant on their own.
 

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oldaunt said:
Sure. What happened to "your body, your choice"? Can't have it both ways.....
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What has that got to do with this thread?
From my perspective I thought we were all having a respectful conversation. I was asked to clarify what I meant by my last post and I did. Suddenly you post this ?

Those are YOUR words, not mine.
Are you arguing with yourself?
 

SeniorBen said:
Here is a by-product of people imposing their religious beliefs on others:

Idaho hospital will stop delivering babies as doctors flee state due to abortion ban
Near-total ban on abortions is driving doctors away, hospital says, leading to lack of nearby labor and delivery care for thousands
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/20/idaho-bonner-hospital-baby-delivery-abortion-ban

Not to mention that anti-choice laws are based purely on religion, which is blatantly unConstitutional.
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I am sort of in between when it comes to abortion. I wouldn't dare to forbid women to have a say over their own bodies, but I cringe every time I think about it, because abortion destroys a potential life, even if it is shortly after conception. I understand having to go through this morally difficult procedure in cases of rape, incest, or mental illness, or the pregnancy of an under aged girl who didn't know any better, or was too immature to consider the consequences!

But in mature woman? There's the pill! There are devices! There are condoms! Or in my time, a timely withdrawal! (Okay, wasn't always successful) There are always other legitimate reasons for an abortion but they should be carefully considered by the woman and her family doctor, or psychiatrist, that's why, despite my misgivings I think your Supreme Court was wrong!
 
PeppermintPatty said:
Well from your perspective of having no free will would mean that our life is pre-ordained. ( meaning we have no choice )

If it’s preordained then even the choice to live or die is already scripted in our life journey.
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Like I said I believe we have free will. If I didn't, the second sentence would follow logically.

Not related to this: Those I know who don't believe in free will are mostly atheists. But I've never heard a logical explanation for their belief in no free will, which they would be loathed to refer to as predestination. I keep wondering if they see their argument reinforcing atheism somehow, because I don't see how it does. There are many logical arguments to support atheism, but that one doesn't as far as I can tell.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
Well from your perspective of having no free will would mean that our life is pre-ordained. ( meaning we have no choice )

If it’s preordained then even the choice to live or die is already scripted in our life journey.
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My mother was a bit like that. She was prone to using expressions like "what's for you will not go by you", but could never justify her beliefs.
Do we - I mean all life, have a real purpose? I don't really think so. The world would get by perfectly well without life at all. Yet life arose billions of years ago and evolved to the position we are in today. We did not have any more choice than the dinosaurs, we are just the result of ongoing evolution.
 
Capt Lightning said:
Do we - I mean all life, have a real purpose? I don't really think so. The world would get by perfectly well without life at all. Yet life arose billions of years ago and evolved to the position we are in today. We did not have any more choice than the dinosaurs, we are just the result of ongoing evolution.
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Agreed, I suppose we could argue that the purpose of all life is to reproduce, and it acts as if it is, but that does not have to be a purpose, at least not in sense that free will allows us to formulate purposes. Evolution has no plan. It never planned to have a purpose. It doesn't even plan to reproduce, anymore than rocks plan to erode. It's just something that happens in life. But we are drifting from the topic, or maybe not if we are still talking about things we wished were true.
 
Capt Lightning said:
My mother was a bit like that. She was prone to using expressions like "what's for you will not go by you", but could never justify her beliefs.
Do we - I mean all life, have a real purpose? I don't really think so. The world would get by perfectly well without life at all. Yet life arose billions of years ago and evolved to the position we are in today. We did not have any more choice than the dinosaurs, we are just the result of ongoing evolution.
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The world itself would do much better off not having us in it but that’s another topic all together.

To the world our existence might not have any purpose but to our soul , I believe, it does.

Life evolved billions of years ago and here we are now with a choice to accept life or not accept life and commit suicide.

You are speaking about all of humanity as a living species where I am speaking individual choice.
 
Old Salt said:
I am sort of in between when it comes to abortion. I wouldn't dare to forbid women to have a say over their own bodies, but I cringe every time I think about it, because abortion destroys a potential life, even if it is shortly after conception. I understand having to go through this morally difficult procedure in cases of rape, incest, or mental illness, or the pregnancy of an under aged girl who didn't know any better, or was too immature to consider the consequences!

But in mature woman? There's the pill! There are devices! There are condoms! Or in my time, a timely withdrawal! (Okay, wasn't always successful) There are always other legitimate reasons for an abortion but they should be carefully considered by the woman and her family doctor, or psychiatrist, that's why, despite my misgivings I think your Supreme Court was wrong!
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In all your statements here you are putting the blame solely on the woman. How can you possibly understand the moral difficulties of rape, incest or girls who are too immature to know the consequences. Why? Cause you aren’t a woman.

Reality check: Females of ALL ages get raped all the time in every part of the word. It has nothing to do with the age of the woman.

How about men take half the responsibility. Even your answer above you claim that women should take the pill but then go on to say or wear condoms. Using condoms isn’t fool proof and you just admitted that timely withdrawal doesn’t always work. How many other men think this way and how did that work for you (them)?

Sorry for going off topic?
 
PeppermintPatty said:
The world itself would do much better off not having us in it but that’s another topic all together.

To the world our existence might not have any purpose but to our soul , I believe, it does.

Life evolved billions of years ago and here we are now with a choice to accept life or not accept life and commit suicide.

You are speaking about all of humanity as a living species where I am speaking individual choice.
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When you talk about soul, you are talking about a part of yourself. That part (to me) doesn't have to have any divine meaning, but the "soul" is you and me making decisions about what we need and how to get there. That is purpose. "Life" put us here; Full stop! We come up with purpose, and that purpose varies from the psychopath to the humanitarian. Life putting us here, and us fulfilling our needs and desires are marginally related. But the captain and I don't assign a purpose to life as a product of evolution.
 
JustDave said:
When you talk about soul, you are talking about a part of yourself. That part (to me) doesn't have to have any divine meaning, but the "soul" is you and me making decisions about what we need and how to get there. That is purpose. "Life" put us here; Full stop! We come up with purpose, and that purpose varies from the psychopath to the humanitarian. Life putting us here, and us fulfilling our needs and desires are marginally related. But the captain and I don't assign a purpose to life as a product of evolution.
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Life evolved millions of years ago. Considering civil humanity is only 200,000 years old, have we not evolved since then?
Years ago the caveman would leave their deceased members on the ground if they died and walk away, leaving the corpse exposed for wild animals to eat.

Over time even they began to bury the bodies . Apparently they started to believe there was something more to life than the physical body. They drew pictures in the caves about this. As time progressed they started , what we would now call , a burial ceremony.
Native Indians did something similar.

Our bodies evolved, our minds evolved and we acknowledged that we actually have a SOUL!

Ok some of us did. Lol 😝
 
PeppermintPatty said:
Life evolved millions of years ago. Considering civil humanity is only 200,000 years old, have we not evolved since then?
Years ago the caveman would leave their deceased members on the ground if they died and walk away, leaving the corpse exposed for wild animals to eat.

Over time even they began to bury the bodies . Apparently they started to believe there was something more to life than the physical body. They drew pictures in the caves about this. As time progressed they started , what we would now call , a burial ceremony.
Native Indians did something similar.

Our bodies evolved, our minds evolved and we acknowledged that we actually have a SOUL!

Ok some of us did. Lol 😝
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Some people have more soul than others...
 
JustDave said:
When you talk about soul, you are talking about a part of yourself. That part (to me) doesn't have to have any divine meaning, but the "soul" is you and me making decisions about what we need and how to get there. That is purpose. "Life" put us here; Full stop! We come up with purpose, and that purpose varies from the psychopath to the humanitarian. Life putting us here, and us fulfilling our needs and desires are marginally related. But the captain and I don't assign a purpose to life as a product of evolution.
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Yes. life finds a way.......
 
PeppermintPatty said:
In all your statements here you are putting the blame solely on the woman. How can you possibly understand the moral difficulties of rape, incest or girls who are too immature to know the consequences. Why? Cause you aren’t a woman.

Reality check: Females of ALL ages get raped all the time in every part of the word. It has nothing to do with the age of the woman.

How about men take half the responsibility. Even your answer above you claim that women should take the pill but then go on to say or wear condoms. Using condoms isn’t fool proof and you just admitted that timely withdrawal doesn’t always work. How many other men think this way and how did that work for you (them)?

Sorry for going off topic?
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I am terribly sorry that you misundertood what I wrote, PeppermintPatty! Please read my post again, carefully. I in no way blamed a rape victim, young or old, for the terrible wrong done to her, or for choosing an abortion! I will quietly remove myself from this subject now! :-( If I have inadvertently given offense to anyone else, my sincerest apologies. As a father of two daughters and a wonderful wife, now sadly missed, there's no way I would ever be a misogynist!
 
PeppermintPatty said:
Our bodies evolved, our minds evolved and we acknowledged that we actually have a SOUL!
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This would be the time that the first gods were created. And like humans the gods enjoyed a robust evolution dating back to prehistoric times, but later appearing in the historic records. Like their close relatives, the hominids, most of the ancestral gods died out, some leaving no historic records at all, some flashing abruptly into the records, and dying out quickly. The evolutionary development of gods happened so quickly that human evolution pales in comparison, and today all that is left is but a metaphorical handful of gods clinging onto humanity for their very existence. The saying "God is dead" is not completely true, just most of the ancestral family tree, and of course, it depends on which god. But all species eventually go extinct, and their gods die with them.
 
Stephen Hawking and some of his insightful forerunners have given the most cogent theory of creation to date. He is but one prophet. Those guys that painted pictures on cave walls or stared at the sky and saw a firmament have had their day.
 
The stories in the bible tell of fascinating events. Floods to kill all mankind except for a chosen family. Or what's ahead like living in a city with streets of gold, walls of precious jewels & pearl gates to access the city. A lot more so why not a story about a son that promotes living with an unshakeable faith in a omnipotent sentient being that did all that.
Not to sure about the died & rose 3 days later. Does that mean people that chose cremation instead of burial won't rise since their earthly body is in ashes?
 
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Capt Lightning said:
I don't believe in a 'God', so therefore Jesus can't be the 'Son of God'. Music on the other hand, is a powerful tool for stirring up emotions.
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Personally I am agnostic, as in I don‘t know. The universe is vast beyond our comprehension. What it does or does not contain is beyond our understanding. If the existence of GOD is for me unknowable I have no right or ability to lecture others on the validity of their beliefs. Maybe you could try considering that.
 
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I have been on many forums - too many to recount - but one or two I think have had clear guidelines about claiming 'specific religious beliefs and rights' as having no right to sanctify their own creed and practices as not only the most worthy but the holiest and most correct. I assume that is the practice here?
 

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