Just Pondering

oldpop

oldpop

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I have been pondering on a subject since I was a teen. It is pretty much open ended and will probably not be answered in my lifetime if ever. Some times I like to think about things on an atomic level and things on an astronomical level. Let me explain. On an atomic level scientists seem to keep finding smaller and smaller particles that are parts of bigger and bigger things. It moves outwards to astronomical objects such as planets, solar systems, galaxies, the universe and even the multiverse. Is there an end to this or does it go on to infinity? Does it somehow circle back on it self in a kind of a circle? Does it abruptly end? Is it all part of an omnipotent being?

As I mentioned I have been pondering this for many years. If this makes any sense to you (it barely does to me) I would like to know your opinions/thoughts. There is no correct answer or rules as far as I am concerned so imagination is a plus. If you do respond thank you kindly for your time

This is a long-exposure Hubble Space Telescope image of massive galaxy cluster Abell 2744.

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Quoting"Cantor established the importance of one-to-one correspondence between the members of two sets, defined infinite and well-ordered sets, and proved that the real numbers are more numerous than the natural numbers. In fact, Cantor's method of proof of this theorem implies the existence of an infinity of infinities."

Food for thought and fascinating...

I did follow Carl Sagan
 
Reply to Chris21E's

Thanks for the post. I respect the scientists involved but what I am asking is what you think? Bottom line is there are many theories but they still do not know. There are just to many variables involved. I believe anything someone can think up is a possible answer to any question. That is why I started this post. I wanted to see what others think. I have my own thoughts. I will state them later. Thanks again. Very interesting video.
 

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Like you say most of what the average person knows is guessing. What I have learned is science will learn more from examining the parts of the atom than they will exploring space in terms of learning how it all started. The atom splitter is the prime example. Listening to the explanation of the Big Bang releasing more energy in that moment of creation having more energy that all of the stars in the universe combined I just shake my head knowing there is so much we don't know. I love to read the books about the physics of it all but have to stop frequently and go back to re-read because i find my self lost.
 
oldpop said:
I have been pondering on a subject since I was a teen. It is pretty much open ended and will probably not be answered in my lifetime if ever. Some times I like to think about things on an atomic level and things on an astronomical level. Let me explain. On an atomic level scientists seem to keep finding smaller and smaller particles that are parts of bigger and bigger things. It moves outwards to astronomical objects such as planets, solar systems, galaxies, the universe and even the multiverse. Is there an end to this or does it go on to infinity? Does it somehow circle back on it self in a kind of a circle? Does it abruptly end? Is it all part of an omnipotent being?

As I mentioned I have been pondering this for many years. If this makes any sense to you (it barely does to me) I would like to know your opinions/thoughts. There is no correct answer or rules as far as I am concerned so imagination is a plus. If you do respond thank you kindly for your time

This is a long-exposure Hubble Space Telescope image of massive galaxy cluster Abell 2744.
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What you call "atomic and astronomical level" I call "microscopic level".
 
oldpop said:
Reply to Chris21E's

Thanks for the post. I respect the scientists involved but what I am asking is what you think? Bottom line is there are many theories but they still do not know. There are just to many variables involved. I believe anything someone can think up is a possible answer to any question. That is why I started this post. I wanted to see what others think. I have my own thoughts. I will state them later. Thanks again. Very interesting video.
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You are evading the real question, the one you are afraid to ask/admit, the one of "life" and its purpose. You may (or may not) have noticed that there are hundreds of religions claiming to know all about it but they have all failed. There is a reason why they have all failed, and you will too.
 
I have a similar story to yours. What kicked it off was my mother's unexpected death when I was 13. At 34 I entered a local small Buddhist monastery. I am still here. We have a pretty big library of those who ponder these mysteries, form 100's of traditions.
Just in the past few months I have been leaning towards the idea that forever there has been "matter"...might even be in the form of quantum energy. The forces that exist in this energy attracts and repels linking up with other energy...and can evolve from there if they connect some way. I also lean towards ...it is unpredictable for human to understand how it "works"...if in fact it works at all.
 
I'm sure there's no surprise to most, where my pondering has led me ;) We think of infinity as unlimited and unmeasurable but that is subject to the limitations of the measurer, right?

Logic places boundaries on all things but logically there has to be a First Cause. So logic makes God necessary rather than impossible.

Our reality operates as it does because, like God says, "I am". He is present in His creation, yet above it and independent, and also personal. You can't get something in a Cause that was not present in the Effect. Without God's communication, unity, and relationship in the First Cause...we never would have seen them in Creation.

Having one infinite attribute like the omnipotence of God, requires out of necessity to have all the attributes including omniscience and omnipresence.

So, what exists beyond? That knowledge is far beyond our comprehension. We will never be all-knowing like God. There might be other happenings in God's realm of existence. There are lot's of things we aren't meant to know...yet. So it's pointless to speculate but fun to ponder...and I thank you @oldpop for this thread.
 
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Lara said:
I'm sure there's no surprise to most, where my pondering has led me, but please hear me out. We think of infinity as unlimited and unmeasurable but that is subject to the limitations of the measurer, right?

Logic places boundaries on all things but logically there has to be a First Cause. So logic makes God necessary rather than impossible.

Our reality operates as it does because, like God says, "I am". He is present in His creation, yet above it and independent, and also personal. You can't get something in a Cause that was not present in the Effect. Without God's communication, unity, and relationship in the First Cause...we never would have seen them in Creation.

Having one infinite attribute like the omnipotence of God, requires out of necessity to have all the attributes including omniscience and omnipresence.

So, what exists beyond? That knowledge is far beyond our comprehension. We will never be all-knowing like God. There might be other happenings in God's realm of existence. There are lot's of things we aren't meant to know...yet. So it's pointless to speculate but fun to ponder...and I thank you @oldpop for this thread.
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Now that I am retired I have time to think about all kinds of things. I enjoy it tremendously. I think Mike Pinder of the Moody Blues said it best "thinking is the best way to travel".
 
Long before people were aware that there were such things as atoms or galaxies, the Elizabethans (among others) pondered that there were “wheels within wheels.” We cannot unscrew the inscrutable, which perhaps only makes the contemplation of it all the more wonderful and awe-inspiring…
 
oldpop, I thought about this, too. It's like there's a continuum of small things making bigger things, which make bigger things, which make bigger things. And the question is does the biggest thing somehow become the smallest thing to start the chain all over again, OR does the biggest thing, somehow make a bigger thing that we can't detect, yet?
My answer is, Ta Da, I don't know.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
oldpop, I thought about this, too. It's like there's a continuum of small things making bigger things, which make bigger things, which make bigger things. And the question is does the biggest thing somehow become the smallest thing to start the chain all over again, OR does the biggest thing, somehow make a bigger thing that we can't detect, yet?
My answer is, Ta Da, I don't know.
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I do not know either but it is fun to think about. Maybe instead of a circle it is a Möbius Strip?

:unsure:

​

 
Infinity!

All in creation are living expressions of the omnipresent, omniscient , cosmic existence.
I believe when something is created, (energy) , it's maintained, it reaches the height of evolution and then dissolves.
Creation is never ending. Different levels of creation in different forms always progresses, always evolves and while
the laws of the unchanging , eternal absolute continue, new laws of physics prevail in the relative and improve qualities
in the different strata of nature, in different forms and phenomena.
Multiverses, upon multiverses upon multiverses continue to expand create, develop into infinity. This will not ever end!
We, on Earth, can't possibly comprehend even a portion of this!
What you refer to as atomic level and astronomical level, I see as relative and absolute. All is energy.
 
Lara said:
Logic places boundaries on all things but logically there has to be a First Cause. So logic makes God necessary rather than impossible.
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Those two sentences got me to pondering God's creation of heaven & earth. Logically to create something that didn't exist there would be someplace outside of what we have learned so far about our universe. Considering the vastness why would it need to be so vast?
 
Knight said:
Those two sentences got me to pondering God's creation of heaven & earth. Logically to create something that didn't exist there would be someplace outside of what we have learned so far about our universe. Considering the vastness why would it need to be so vast?
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Yes, possibly something outside of what we have learned so far about our universe.
I like that my post got you to pondering and asking questions like "why would vastness need to be so vast?"

I don't claim to know but my first thought is, "Why not?" Afterall, it's infinity, eternal, no beginning, no end.
It doesn't "need to be vast". It just "IS". Like quoting God, "I AM"

Because we have time here on earth, we can't comprehend infinity. And we're not meant to for now.
`
 
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The only answer I see is that what ever created and or maintains everything is something beyond our comprehension That is not a real answer but all I can come up with at this point. Everything that has been posted here on this thread is possible and I hope it gives us all food for thought. So far it has for me. I believe that thinking out of the box is a good way to think. It leads to so many options for thought and none are written in stone.
To add: Nature seems to work in cycles. Nature hear on earth seems to be a connection of all things. One lives for the other or is made by the other or depends on the other. That makes me think that whatever makes things tick works in the same sort of fashion?
 
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oldpop said:
The only answer I see is that what ever created and or maintains everything is something beyond our comprehension That is not a real answer but all I can come up with at this point. Everything that has been posted here on this thread is possible and I hope it gives us all food for thought. So far it has for me. I believe that thinking out of the box is a good way to think. It leads to so many options for thought and none are written in stone.
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Good! Keep open to all possibilities! There is so much wonderment ahead of us as we reach deeper and deeper into evolution of our souls!
 
:love: Thought provoking thread oldpop

When I was a little girl my friends and I would lie in a circle on the grass and look up at the sky and we came to conclusion the earth was surrounded by a blue shell !! I have been pondering the universe ever since then, nothing fascinates me more. Unfortunately, I don’t think we will ever find answers to some of the questions we as humans seek.

Every time we think we have made a centimetre of progress, it opens up eons of more possibilities. Ever since Edwin Hubble discovered our already infinite universe is even more infinite with its expansion, the human mind has been confused, befudded and bedazzled!!

But I shall keep on pondering :)
 
Infinite brings up a problem with creation. Creating something means that you are bringing something into existence that wasn't there. Infinite has no limit.

So there is a conflict.
 
Knight said:
Infinite brings up a problem with creation. Creating something means that you are bringing something into existence that wasn't there. Infinite has no limit.

So there is a conflict.
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No, Although maintenance of this energy is stable, it changes into a higher state or devolves into a lower state. These two factors can be found simultaneously. Creation , (from our view) is the manipulation of energies into form and phenomena. The whole of creation is is the field of consciousness in varied forms. Creation is layers and layers of energy.
But now, physics has discovered under all these layers is it abstract, absolute pure Being,; the essential constituent of creation, which is neither matter nor energy. It's an un-manifested state of existence. PURE BEING; PURE GOD!
We don't create. We can manipulate in the relative. The Being creates. The God creates.

The infinite is unboundedness, unlimited, eternal, , pure intelligence, pure existence, beyond all relative existence, the absolute!
Knight, Does this make sense to you?
 
It always comes down to "which came first the chicken or the egg?' That is where I always end up.
😄
 

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