Justice Systems In Other Countries Other Than the U.S.

911

911

Well-known Member
Location
USA
I had to testify this morning at trial in a cold case that was from 1999. As I sat in the courtroom waiting to testify and then waiting for noon adjournment, I began thinking about all of the people that post on this site and are from different countries.

Out of curiosity, I came up with two questions that I have thought about for a long time and I would like to find out if I can get some of you to answer them for me.

So, here goes. These are the two questions, but if you don’t feel like sharing your answers with the community or that you just prefer not to answer, I understand. Maybe no one will reply, but if you do, please list the country that you represent.

Anyone from the U.S. need not respond.


  1. Do you agree with your country’s justice system?
  2. Would you be in favor of the death penalty in cases where a murder was committed
If you chose to answer, thank you.
 

1. No, our Justice system stinks.
2. Yes, it might stop he silly children stickiing knives
into each other.

Mike.
 
Way too much time/money spent on silly STUPID claims! I was on a jury case where the
value was a lousy six ($6) + it took almost a week ! NEVER again if I can get out of it.

I'd hate to see an innocent person executed by mistake !
 

Mike said:
1. No, our Justice system stinks....agreed!!!


Mike.
Click to expand...

1....agreed!!!
2. Yes, I;m afraid I do for very serious crimes.. people are being killed right and left here unlike anything we've ever seen in my lifetime, and especially defenceless children slaughtered and very often by their own parents.. and they rarely get any sentence longer than 15 years and out after serving only 2/3rds of that!!

of course there's the worry that innocent people would be given a death sentence, but where the guilt is without doubt and someone or a group of people have cold bloodedly taken the life of an innocent child, or terrorists the lives of innocent people ..then a death sentence should be mandatory.

We used to have it here but it was abolished in 1998 but in reality the last person to be executed was in 1964... ..so I can't ever see a time when it will be reinstated!!
 
Our system of justice is based on the British model and I think it is well designed.
Of course it isn't perfect and justice for the rich is better than for the poor and indigenous population.

Over my lifetime I have observed some miscarriages of justice, the most notorious being the Lindy Chamberlain case but in the end he guilty verdict was overturned. This is why I do not support the death penalty.
 
I think all justice systems are flawed. They have to be. They are run by humans and we make mistakes.
No I will NEVER believe in the death penalty. There has to be a better way. Even jailing people and treating them like evil humans , I don’t think helps either. Some justice systems actually rehabilitate the inmates with special programs. Some help train rescue dogs while going through counselling.

Why not put these people to work and retrain them. Some of them should never have freedom again and possibly be put down but I think most of them can be helped to become productive people.
 
Warrigal said:
Our system of justice is based on the British model and I think it is well designed.
Of course it isn't perfect and justice for the rich is better than for the poor and indigenous population.

Over my lifetime I have observed some miscarriages of justice, the most notorious being the Lindy Chamberlain case but in the end he guilty verdict was overturned. This is why I do not support the death penalty.
Click to expand...


Oh I remember that very well from way back ... that poor woman the hell she went through.. !! As you say , a good thing Australia didn't have the death penalty then, or they'd have killed an innocent woman..

is she still alive now Warrigal, do you know?
 
I have spoken to friends from other countries. In Scandinavian courts, there is not the confrontational, win at all cost, approach that we have in the states. Instead, both sides try to work together to come up with a just outcome. Jail sentences are nowhere near the US rate.

As one who is opposed to prison sentences for all but the most violent, incorrigible offenders, I wish the US would learn from other parts of the world. Our percentage of citizens who are incarcerated is an obscenity, made worse by the fact that our prison system does very little along the lines of true rehabilitation. Most come out worse than when they went in.

I worked with many formerly incarcerated individuals when I was in the tattoo business. I learned a great deal about their prison experiences. That definitely was an eye opener, for me.

I am opposed to giving any ruling body the power to ritually murder people to show that murdering people is wrong.
 
I was not at all surprised by some, or even most of the answers. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. This is what makes "freedom" so great to be able to think and opine without fear of retribution.

I have visited many prisons here in Pennsylvania, including the Federal prison in Lewisburg, where Jimmy Hoffa served his time. There is no doubt that the U.S. justice system is flawed and I base that on giving judges the right to hand down sentences that are just not consistent and in some cases are unfair. (IMO)

According to the FBI, the U.S. has the most and worse violent offenders. I can believe that to be true. Even looking back at the number of serial killers the U.S. has had and the barbarism and inhumanity of their crimes. I think the worse that I have come in contact with was Ted Bundy. He deserved to sit in "Old Sparky" in Florida for the number of crimes and the savagery of the murders that he committed.

DNA has been a huge crime solving tool. It has both incarcerated and freed many prisoners. It has been very hard to discount science as not being a huge help with crime solving, not to mention video recordings and still the now old fashioned finger print examiner. But, nothing compares to having DNA evidence.

The worse crime that I encountered and I don't mean by body count, but that did come into play with this one, but I mean the worse crime so far as not only the number of dead, but also the travesty of the crime was the shooting of the little Amish girls here in Pennsylvania. The shooter, Charles Roberts, took 10 little Amish girls hostage, shooting 8 of them and killing 5 before taking his own life. That's too bad because the little girls and their families were denied justice.

Maybe if the public were allowed to see some of the brutality of some of the crimes, it may change their minds on who should or shouldn't be rehabilitated. As J. Edgar Hoover put it long ago, "Some prisoners just cannot be rehabilitated." Our rate of recidivism bears that out. After seeing what some pedophiles are capable of, I am also in agreement with that. Many psychiatrists have also stated before congress that there is no cure for pedophilia, although some of these horrible people have just stopped on their own, but that fact alone does not mean that they are cured.

 
Keesha said:
. Some of them should never have freedom again and possibly be put down but I think most of them can be helped to become productive people.
Click to expand...
Which is why I added this. I remember that Amish child killer. Sheer tradegy.
Some people don’t deserve the air they breath.
 
It's not (to me) the 'justice system' being so poor. It's bad and yes, adversarial and he/she with the most money for a good lawyer wins. What we don't have is a rehab system. We need so many resources as far as taking offenders and giving them an education, job training, affordable housing, and counseling to bring them into the general society where they can contribute and pay taxes.
If we can't give offenders a 'reasonable' chance at becoming productive citizens, they will not see much advantage to trying to 'go straight'.
I just don't have the expertise to determine who cannot be rehabilitated and what to do with them. I would think, but not know for sure, that many have a mental illness of some type. And, as with other offenders, we don't have the resources to handle the large population of mentally ill offenders such as pedophiles, sociopaths, and psychopaths.
 
The whole legal system in the UK seems to be in favour of the guilty and not of the victim. You'll always get some liberal bleeding heart defence lawyer, pleading that their client had a bad upbringing and was let down by society - no mention of the pensioner they beat up and stole their purse. The UK has just become far too soft on criminals.

Terrorists, murderers, rapists, child abusers etc.. - let's not waste taxpayers money keeping them alive.
 
hollydolly said:
Oh I remember that very well from way back ... that poor woman the hell she went through.. !! As you say , a good thing Australia didn't have the death penalty then, or they'd have killed an innocent woman..

is she still alive now Warrigal, do you know?
Click to expand...

She is and now lives in Australia again. For some years she lived in US with her second husband.
 
Having a high profile expensive lawyer doesn’t always get the criminal. I site the Menendez Brothers and ScottPeterson as two examples. Peterson is sitting on death row for killing his pregnant wife, which later the baby washed up and was found just before his mother was found in the same manner. Do you think Peterson should be rehabilitated and released back into society?

Then, there’s Charles Manson who never killed anyone and he originally had received the death penalty before SCOTUS outlawed the death penalty as written. Is there anyone that doesn’t believe that Manson didn’t suffer from mental illness?

Having a mental illness is not an acceptable defense. If it were, Aileen Wuornos would never have been convicted. OTOH, being insane or having an insanity defense (not knowing right from wrong) has been successful in some cases. The U.S. does not sentence people that are insane to death, but we don’t release them, either.
 
Well, I know in Turkey , it was pretty much "guilty until proven innocent". I was living there when the "Midnight Express" incident was happening.

One of our projects was delivering food to American prisoners in jails in our area, being that prisoners weren't often fed by the jailers, but had to depend on their families and friends to feed them. I certainly don't condone the behaviors that landed them in jail, but the majority of them were in there for poor judgement, not serious badness. Mostly drugs and small amounts at that. Stuff that would get a 30 day sentence in the states at most. I agree on some sort of punishment was deserved but not serious beatings and starvation.
 
If I remember correctly, the dude in “Midnight Express” was guilty. I think he was trying to smuggle some hash out of Turkey. If you can believe the movie and it was truthful, I don’t think that he deserved the treatment that he received. That wasn’t even humane, not to mention the deplorable living conditions.
 
911 said:
I was not at all surprised by some, or even most of the answers. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. This is what makes "freedom" so great to be able to think and opine without fear of retribution.

I have visited many prisons here in Pennsylvania, including the Federal prison in Lewisburg, where Jimmy Hoffa served his time. There is no doubt that the U.S. justice system is flawed and I base that on giving judges the right to hand down sentences that are just not consistent and in some cases are unfair. (IMO)

According to the FBI, the U.S. has the most and worse violent offenders. I can believe that to be true. Even looking back at the number of serial killers the U.S. has had and the barbarism and inhumanity of their crimes. I think the worse that I have come in contact with was Ted Bundy. He deserved to sit in "Old Sparky" in Florida for the number of crimes and the savagery of the murders that he committed.

DNA has been a huge crime solving tool. It has both incarcerated and freed many prisoners. It has been very hard to discount science as not being a huge help with crime solving, not to mention video recordings and still the now old fashioned finger print examiner. But, nothing compares to having DNA evidence.

The worse crime that I encountered and I don't mean by body count, but that did come into play with this one, but I mean the worse crime so far as not only the number of dead, but also the travesty of the crime was the shooting of the little Amish girls here in Pennsylvania. The shooter, Charles Roberts, took 10 little Amish girls hostage, shooting 8 of them and killing 5 before taking his own life. That's too bad because the little girls and their families were denied justice.

Maybe if the public were allowed to see some of the brutality of some of the crimes, it may change their minds on who should or shouldn't be rehabilitated. As J. Edgar Hoover put it long ago, "Some prisoners just cannot be rehabilitated." Our rate of recidivism bears that out. After seeing what some pedophiles are capable of, I am also in agreement with that. Many psychiatrists have also stated before congress that there is no cure for pedophilia, although some of these horrible people have just stopped on their own, but that fact alone does not mean that they are cured.
Click to expand...


I strongly agree. When I was working I saw a lot of terrible things in court transcripts and evidence. Some of it was so bad as to make me feel physically ill. People who are capable of doing such awful things to other human beings shouldn't ever be out among us again -- one of the ones that springs to mind is the guy who liked to partially skin elderly women alive before killing them. Rehabilitation for a person who can do that? Not possible, IMHO -- not to the point where that person will ever be out among us again. New Mexico abolished the death penalty, though, and our "life" sentence doesn't really mean life, so that guy will probably be out among us in 15 or so years.
 
oldman said:
If I remember correctly, the dude in “Midnight Express” was guilty. I think he was trying to smuggle some hash out of Turkey. If you can believe the movie and it was truthful, I don’t think that he deserved the treatment that he received. That wasn’t even humane, not to mention the deplorable living conditions.
Click to expand...


Not really debating your point just thinking out loud..........Doesn't a country have the right to administer justice/punishment as they see fit? I'll bet he won't go back there & even try to smuggle again.

Just like the more recent Otto Warmbier .....Stealing a poster , off of a wall, on video....then bitchin' about the punishment for the act? In NORTH KOREA?

I truly think some of these more harsh ways, would serve well here. If implemented? I believe we would see a sharp drop in crime.

The simple answer to most all these things is to.....simply behave.
 
Like many countries the U.K. laws have flaws but on the whole I am satisfied with them.

Do I believe in capital punishment, the answer is no,........ to me it is legalised murder....too many innocents have been hung.

The following is a well known case in the U.K., the case played a major part in the abolition of capital punishment in the U.K. in 1965.

​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Evans
 
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rgp said:
Not really debating your point just thinking out loud..........Doesn't a country have the right to administer justice/punishment as they see fit? I'll bet he won't go back there & even try to smuggle again.

Just like the more recent Otto Warmbier .....Stealing a poster , off of a wall, on video....then bitchin' about the punishment for the act? In NORTH KOREA?

I truly think some of these more harsh ways, would serve well here. If implemented? I believe we would see a sharp drop in crime.

The simple answer to most all these things is to.....simply behave.
Click to expand...


Right after college, I was hired by DuPont. I had only been on the job for about 5 months when I was sent to our plant in Singapore. The taxi driver from the airport to the hotel was telling me and the other engineer that was along a little about the country and what to expect. DuPont gave us a book on the local cultures, traditions, etc., but she told us that we should have arrived a day sooner. I asked why and she then told us that the day before, Singapore had executed by hanging two Australians for smuggling drugs into the country. She also stated that the executions in Singapore at that time were open to the public. Then, she told us that two young boys had been caned by a number of thrashes for writing graffiti on the side of a store wall. The caning is what interested me. Evidently from what the cab driver was telling us, they take a stalk of sugar cane and finely cut the one end and then thrash the boys' backs. That even sounds painful. I thought back to the days when Christ was crucified and asked if they then wiped the bleeding welts with vinegar, but she didn't respond to that remark. I think she may have been confused or thought that I was being a smart-a$$.
 

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