Laser therapy

R

rgp

Well-known Member
Location
Milford,OH
Has anyone ever tried this therapy for pain, joint immobility and the like ?

It seems sessions run about 60-75 dollars per, [not bad, about the same as acupuncture] IF it works. Of course one will never know, till one try's

The at home units seem to be all over the price map. $200 to $4000 depending on claimed effect and how lofty the certification .
 

I read all about it last year, it is now called "Photo Bio Modulation Therapy",
PBMT, it used to be "Low Laser Light Therapy" and it works.

I wanted to buy some, but the prices quoted here were frightening a bed
like the old sun tan beds were selling for $46,000 and the panel types that
you stand in front of were £1,200 way out of my reach.

As I am an Electrical Engineer, I decided to build one with LEDs, which are the
accepted source for the lights.

I bought some "Grow Panels" from Ebay and put them together as one unit,
the lights are not "Red & Infrared" as the commercial ones are, mine are a
mix of Red and blue, but that is fine as Blue is good for the complexion and
red penetrates about an inch to get to the cells inside, all light excites the
cells into being "Stem Cells" and renews the body properly.

As for the Infrared ones, I couldn't find any circuit that told me how to incorporate
them into the panels with the red lights, so I bought a "CCTV Floodlight" of 48 LEDs,
it is small and fits int the palm of my hand, I had to disable the censor that makes
it work only at night. The infrared light penetrates to a depth of between 4 & 6 inches
and is recommended for arthritis and bones.

The Russians studied the therapy since the early 1900s and didn't translate their
findings into any other language, their doctors prescribe light therapy more often
than drugs I am told.

I have had some great results through the use of these lights and remember that
there is no use of drugs or a scalpel.

LEDs are a benign source of light and are non destructive, lasers are dangerous in
the wrong hands.

The results take some time to show, particularly the one that you are hoping for,
other show more quickly, like complexion improving and blemishes disappearing
from the skin, even dandruff left.

If you want more specific information, let me know and I will help if I can and I don't
charge either.

Mike.

Panel Built.jpg Panel Lit.jpg Infrared Floodlight.jpg
Panel Built ....1 Foot X 4 Feet.......Panel Lit 1 Foot X 4 Feet ..................Infrared Floodlight 2 Inches Diameter
 

Last edited:
The radiation from infrared light translates to heat. I can't imagine how any other light could penetrate enough to affect bones and joints except ultraviolet maybe. I've always been a doubter though. Laser would have to burn in order to be effective I'd imagine. But if it works for people, let them go ahead and use it. I use heated gel packs. They work well enough for me. The above is just my opinion.
 
Mike said:
I read all about it last year, it is now called "Photo Bio Modulation Therapy",
PBMT, it used to be "Low Laser Light Therapy" and it works.

I wanted to buy some, but the prices quoted here were frightening a bed
like the old sun tan beds were selling for $46,000 and the panel types that
you stand in front of were £1,200 way out of my reach.

As I am an Electrical Engineer, I decided to build one with LEDs, which are the
accepted source for the lights.

I bought some "Grow Panels" from Ebay and put them together as one unit,
the lights are not "Red & Infrared" as the commercial ones are, mine are a
mix of Red and blue, but that is fine as Blue is good for the complexion and
red penetrates about an inch to get to the cells inside, all light excites the
cells into being "Stem Cells" and renews the body properly.

As for the Infrared ones, I couldn't find any circuit that told me how to incorporate
them into the panels with the red lights, so I bought a "CCTV Floodlight" of 48 LEDs,
it is small and fits int the palm of my hand, I had to disable the censor that makes
it work only at night. The infrared light penetrates to a depth of between 4 & 6 inches
and is recommended for arthritis and bones.

The Russians studied the therapy since the early 1900s and didn't translate their
findings into any other language, their doctors prescribe light therapy more often
than drugs I am told.

I have had some great results through the use of these lights and remember that
there is no use of drugs or a scalpel.

LEDs are a benign source of light and are non destructive, lasers are dangerous in
the wrong hands.

The results take some time to show, particularly the one that you are hoping for,
other show more quickly, like complexion improving and blemishes disappearing
from the skin, even dandruff left.

If you want more specific information, let me know and I will help if I can and I don't
charge either.

Mike.

View attachment 74831 View attachment 74832 View attachment 74833
Panel Built ....1 Foot X 4 Feet.......Panel Lit 1 Foot X 4 Feet ..................Infrared Floodlight 2 Inches Diameter
Click to expand...

Thank you for the lengthy reply , how'bout a question for now ? Would an @ home unit in the 250-500 dollar range have any noticeable effect on arthritis in you opinion ? I'm not sure just yet on how the strength of them is graduated/rated.

I have just started reading up on it, but it does sound like it has promise ?? I have tried so many things , some very costly [stem-cell treatments] that I've just become wary of further failure. That said, yes I would like to avoid surgery, and I am about out of 'pill' options. Topicals seem to have no effect.
 
Mike said:
I read all about it last year, it is now called "Photo Bio Modulation Therapy",
PBMT, it used to be "Low Laser Light Therapy" and it works.

I wanted to buy some, but the prices quoted here were frightening a bed
like the old sun tan beds were selling for $46,000 and the panel types that
you stand in front of were £1,200 way out of my reach.

As I am an Electrical Engineer, I decided to build one with LEDs, which are the
accepted source for the lights.

I bought some "Grow Panels" from Ebay and put them together as one unit,
the lights are not "Red & Infrared" as the commercial ones are, mine are a
mix of Red and blue, but that is fine as Blue is good for the complexion and
red penetrates about an inch to get to the cells inside, all light excites the
cells into being "Stem Cells" and renews the body properly.

As for the Infrared ones, I couldn't find any circuit that told me how to incorporate
them into the panels with the red lights, so I bought a "CCTV Floodlight" of 48 LEDs,
it is small and fits int the palm of my hand, I had to disable the censor that makes
it work only at night. The infrared light penetrates to a depth of between 4 & 6 inches
and is recommended for arthritis and bones.

The Russians studied the therapy since the early 1900s and didn't translate their
findings into any other language, their doctors prescribe light therapy more often
than drugs I am told.

I have had some great results through the use of these lights and remember that
there is no use of drugs or a scalpel.

LEDs are a benign source of light and are non destructive, lasers are dangerous in
the wrong hands.

The results take some time to show, particularly the one that you are hoping for,
other show more quickly, like complexion improving and blemishes disappearing
from the skin, even dandruff left.

If you want more specific information, let me know and I will help if I can and I don't
charge either.

Mike.

View attachment 74831 View attachment 74832 View attachment 74833
Panel Built ....1 Foot X 4 Feet.......Panel Lit 1 Foot X 4 Feet ..................Infrared Floodlight 2 Inches Diameter
Click to expand...



Is this similar to what you've built ?


PlatinumLED Therapy Lights | The #1 Rated LED Therapy Light‎

Adwww.platinumtherapylights.com/‎


(844) 533-4769

Similar to what you were shopping for ?
 
Judycat said:
The radiation from infrared light translates to heat. I can't imagine how any other light could penetrate enough to affect bones and joints except ultraviolet maybe. I've always been a doubter though. Laser would have to burn in order to be effective I'd imagine. But if it works for people, let them go ahead and use it. I use heated gel packs. They work well enough for me. The above is just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Hello Judycat, the PBMT lights are cold and you can touch them
with your skin, the little Infrared floodlight does get warm after
about 30 minutes use, it is Near Infrared, the effect of the lights
work on the wavelength of the colour, Blue is 450 nano metres,
Red 650nm, infrared 850nm.
Lasers are used to cut steel at 8" plus, they are too powerful for
the human body, a friend had to get laser treatment at a hospital
here and they only gave him 11 seconds of treatment as they are
destructive.

Mike.
 
rgp said:
Is this similar to what you've built ?


PlatinumLED Therapy Lights | The #1 Rated LED Therapy Light‎
Adwww.platinumtherapylights.com/‎


(844) 533-4769

Similar to what you were shopping for ?
Click to expand...
Hi RGP, yes they look similar, except that they are in a box like structure
with cooling fans etc, they also look as if they have a combination of the
red and Near infrared that I couldn't manage to build, as I explained before,
my version is fine, it does the job for less than $50 and the little floodlight
cost me around £16, maybe $20, have a look in Ebay, the square Grow Panels
all come with their own power plug, all you would need would be a multi
point extension cable, the little floodlight is a 6volt unit and I bought the
power adapter with it, all for that low price.

Rather than spend a lot for something that may not like, just get the small
floodlight and try that while you read all about the subject.

A friend who got tennis elbow and was in great pain got one and in a few
days it was all clear, he has never had it return so far and uses the light
for all sorts of aches and pains.

My hairdresser told me earlier in the year that in Austria at the bottom of
the Ski Slopes they have little wooden huts that are infrared saunas, you
pay your money and sit with your back against the light for a maximum
of 30 minutes, she said no pain at all afterwards.

The ones that I saw in the beginning were from a company called JOOVV
they only do the panels for around $1,200.

https://joovv.com/pages/shop

Mike.
 
Mike said:
Hi RGP, yes they look similar, except that they are in a box like structure
with cooling fans etc, they also look as if they have a combination of the
red and Near infrared that I couldn't manage to build, as I explained before,
my version is fine, it does the job for less than $50 and the little floodlight
cost me around £16, maybe $20, have a look in Ebay, the square Grow Panels
all come with their own power plug, all you would need would be a multi
point extension cable, the little floodlight is a 6volt unit and I bought the
power adapter with it, all for that low price.

Rather than spend a lot for something that may not like, just get the small
floodlight and try that while you read all about the subject.

A friend who got tennis elbow and was in great pain got one and in a few
days it was all clear, he has never had it return so far and uses the light
for all sorts of aches and pains.

My hairdresser told me earlier in the year that in Austria at the bottom of
the Ski Slopes they have little wooden huts that are infrared saunas, you
pay your money and sit with your back against the light for a maximum
of 30 minutes, she said no pain at all afterwards.

The ones that I saw in the beginning were from a company called JOOVV
they only do the panels for around $1,200.

https://joovv.com/pages/shop

Mike.
Click to expand...


I think I am going to do some more reading / research on them, as well as look locally for a clinician / therapist that uses the technique for pain relief. At this point I think I would rather pay a 'fee' for a 'procedure' than to invest in a device .

Your opinion ?
 
Good luck, to find local practitioners search using
PBMT and/or Thor, they make the machines and
when I was researching I found that Thor had some
lists of people who had bought their machines.

Also JOOVV might help, though they are more
for sales, but they might point you to somebody
who has one of their machines.

Feel free to ask me questions.

Mike.
 
Mike said:
Good luck, to find local practitioners search using
PBMT and/or Thor, they make the machines and
when I was researching I found that Thor had some
lists of people who had bought their machines.

Also JOOVV might help, though they are more
for sales, but they might point you to somebody
who has one of their machines.

Feel free to ask me questions.

Mike.
Click to expand...


I just talked to a provider of this therapy. Approx. one week for an appointment, first one ........ consultation & treatment is $77.00 , all suggested follow up treatments are $70.00 per thereafter . So I think that is where i am going to start / try.

I'll let you know how it goes.
 
Mike said:
I hope that it works for you.

Mike.
Click to expand...


Well Mike I have to tell you........I am having a hard time finding evidence that this therapy works . Most of the "positives" are from sites that make $$ form it. Like this local practitioner that I noted. I did not make an appointment , so for now I am going to continue reading up on it. But I must admit, it is looking more & more like a scam to me.




Remember the contraption that the EX gameshow host was selling ? Just buy it for $500 lay your elbow in it , etc,etc. This sounds like just a more advanced version of that.

If you have ? or can point me toward any real clinical evidence of positive effect ? I'd appreciate it.
 
I will try rgp,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-level_laser_therapy
-------
https://www.healthline.com/health/cold-laser-therapy#purpose
-------
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10955339
-------
https://www.science.gov/topicpages/l/low-level+light+therapy.html
-------
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=PBMT+Testimonials

There are a few links for you just now, the last one is to YouTube Videos,
don't open the "Novo Thor" ones as they are the salespeople that you
don't want to listen to, though they are trying to sell their expensive
machines, a lot of what they write is true, I spent many long hours on
the computer just trawling and found that a lot of facts they publish
are true, JOOVV are the ones with the best information, but you decide.

If you want to find different searches, use Goole and instead of .com,
use .co.uk or .au or .co.nz all english speaking countries, you can also
choose any european one as they all have built in translations.

Again I wish you luck,

Mike.
 
Mike, if you tire of my questions, I do understand..........

If buying a light , would you lean towards an LLT devise or an HPLT devise ? I ask because I figure if one is going to make the leap? Get it right the first time.

Thanks again, Ron
 
Hi Ron, I never tire of questions, if I can help I will
and do so willingly.

The reason that I gave you those .??? endings for google
was to let you have a look at some other countries and
see what they think, a mixture of views is helpful as long
as you understand the answers.

If you want to buy a unit, there are many, many more than
you have looked at, there are some real professional ones
that are used by Hospitals, or Chiropractors and cost a lot,
but they have different tools for different areas of the body
there are also ones aimed at the beauty industry, any one
will help you, but I would suggest that you don't waste any
money on expensive machinery that requires long training
sessions, so I would go for one of the 4 foot models, the one
with a mixture of Red and Near Infrared lights that you have
to stand in front of.

The red lights will get the surface and near subsurface while
the near infrared will get deeper inside the body.

Good Luck again, if you want to chat, tell me and I will call you.

Mike.
 
I am reading up on two units, a 600w & a 900w both are measured to be 36" X 12" X 3" both have an optional stand, or a kit that hangs them on a door. And of course the company offers various combinations. 300w+450w /600w +900w you get the point. Prices range from $900 to $2300 . All are said to be red-to-near IR in their strength .

The one I am focusing on is a 900/600 W combination unit, with stand ,all cords, glasses etc.....$1700 shipped. The combination, mounted on the stand, results in a standing unit approx. 72" tall.

I have invested so much money in this , & as yet no result, that on one hand I tend to waffle on the purchase. Then on the other hand there is no better place to invest than in the quality of ones life. And for the last 3-4 years, I have had poor quality of life, and i feel it slipping each day.
 
Well Ron, you have the combination correct, I am not
sure where you want help, the knees or perhaps the
shoulders, take this into account when deciding how
you are going to get the benefit of the location, hung
from a door, the one that I have can be adjusted quite
easily, but it covers me from head to mid shins and that
is what I was looking for.

Your one at 36 inches is 1 foot shorter than mine, so I
don't know what will be the best, a stand or suspension,
if the stand is easy to adjust, that might be best, but how
heavy is the unit, could you lift it?

Hanging from a door or a different kind of stand might be
better as you can arrange the height adjustment if needed
by some rope, which I think is easier to do.

You are on the right track as far as I am aware, but you are
looking for results quickly, I suggest that the results are
not swift with lights, unless you can use them regularly.

I would suggest no more than 30 minutes every two hours
and if you can switch off the Near Infrared that would be
good as they get hot and you don't want to overdo it.

Mike.
 
Mike said...

"
Well Ron, you have the combination correct, I am not
sure where you want help, the knees or perhaps the
shoulders, take this into account when deciding how
you are going to get the benefit of the location, hung
from a door, the one that I have can be adjusted quite
easily, but it covers me from head to mid shins and that
is what I was looking for. "

I need the help overall basically. {Targets} right shoulder, low back & buttocks, upper back & neck.


"Your one at 36 inches is 1 foot shorter than mine, so I
don't know what will be the best, a stand or suspension,
if the stand is easy to adjust, that might be best, but how
heavy is the unit, could you lift it? "

It weighs 33 pounds, it has the suspension system standard, the stand is $99.00 extra.....and extra $99.00 is not a deal breaker.


"unless you can use them regularly. "

"I would suggest no more than 30 minutes every two hours
and if you can switch off the Near Infrared that would be
good as they get hot and you don't want to overdo it."

This is [in part] why I would rather have my own unit, as opposed to traveling to a practitioner .

Is a "pin-point" unit "quicker" for a local condition ? Shoulder/neck for example....in your opinion?
 
I can't comment on any particular machine as I didn't
look too deeply into them after I saw some prices!
Standing in front of a panel will make things awkward
get to the top of the shoulder, unless you can kneel and
rest on something and lean forward like you were kneeling
in church, or you can hang it above your head shining down.

For small localised areas I have the CCTV Floodlight, that I can
rub on small areas and this works, I have four friends who
bought them on my recommendation, one for "Tennis Elbow"
which went away in a couple of days, another for his thigh
muscle which had started to pain him continually for several
weeks, this cleared fairly soon, less than a week, my lady
barber for her mother's knee which has troubled her for many
years this started to ease and she now walks more than she
could before, my business partner in another business, his
wife suffers from MS, that will take a long time, but she had
a sore ankle that she had damaged two years ago and it gave
her trouble ever since, the pain left after only a few days she
told me and she certainly doesn't limp anymore.

So you can guess what I am going to say for localised areas,
check out a CCTV infrared Floodlight with 48 LEDs in it, plus
a 12 Volt 6amp Power Unit with a round connector you will
find them in Ebay, you don't need to do more than disable
the sensor in the center of the unit, you will see it among
the LEDs, it is to make it work at night, but you want it during
the day, stick a bit of sticky paper over it and black it with a
felt pen, that should disable it.

Mike.
 
Mike said:
I can't comment on any particular machine as I didn't
look too deeply into them after I saw some prices!
Standing in front of a panel will make things awkward
get to the top of the shoulder, unless you can kneel and
rest on something and lean forward like you were kneeling
in church, or you can hang it above your head shining down.

For small localised areas I have the CCTV Floodlight, that I can
rub on small areas and this works, I have four friends who
bought them on my recommendation, one for "Tennis Elbow"
which went away in a couple of days, another for his thigh
muscle which had started to pain him continually for several
weeks, this cleared fairly soon, less than a week, my lady
barber for her mother's knee which has troubled her for many
years this started to ease and she now walks more than she
could before, my business partner in another business, his
wife suffers from MS, that will take a long time, but she had
a sore ankle that she had damaged two years ago and it gave
her trouble ever since, the pain left after only a few days she
told me and she certainly doesn't limp anymore.

So you can guess what I am going to say for localised areas,
check out a CCTV infrared Floodlight with 48 LEDs in it, plus
a 12 Volt 6amp Power Unit with a round connector you will
find them in Ebay, you don't need to do more than disable
the sensor in the center of the unit, you will see it among
the LEDs, it is to make it work at night, but you want it during
the day, stick a bit of sticky paper over it and black it with a
felt pen, that should disable it.

Mike.
Click to expand...


Not sure I follow the disable it ? Why ?
 
Good morning Ron,

To get the floodlight to work in the daytime or in a room
with a light switched on, you have to disable the sensor,
it is a little round plastic thing in among the LED bulbs, it
can be red, or blue, or black, the bit in the center of it is a
window that senses light or dark.

See the attached image.

Mike.

Floodlight Sensor.jpg
 
When I say disable it Ron, if you get one, do not
damage it, just stick a bit of paper on it, but make
sure that it is black or dark to stop any light.

Mike.
 
Mike said:
When I say disable it Ron, if you get one, do not
damage it, just stick a bit of paper on it, but make
sure that it is black or dark to stop any light.

Mike.
Click to expand...


Now I follow you, Thanks again.
 

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