Let's Have A Pro/Con Discussion On Unions

L

Lon

Well-known Member
Location
Central California
Since my own experience was very brief and favorable as a 16 year old I never belonged to a Union in my two major careers, so I really don't have a Pro or Con Opinion.
 

Only pros, good pay, health benefits and protection from losing your job for no valid reason or discrimination by the employer.
 
they have their problems no doubt...but like was said good pay, and benefits for workers, true the owners of companies have to pass the cost along but I think IMO you get better workmanship from union workers....well the carpenters and tradesmen anyway.....
 

I only have good things to say about unions for blue and pink collar workers in Ontario. Fair pay, benefits, fair treatment and job security.
 
Many benefits from the presence of unions but also a dark side.

I am very aware of the history of the battle that has been fought in my country for decent wages and conditions for working men and women. It began in the 1890's with the shearers' strikes. I'm aware that the battle was bitter and physical at times with thugs breaking up picket lines using axe handles etc. The establishment resisted every reform in the courts and in parliament, which led to the establishment of a workers' party, namely the Australian Labor Party. Together, these two arms of the working class pushed through a number of reforms - the 48 (later 40) hour week, paid sick leave, annual leave, penalty rates, equal pay for women, workers' compensation for work related injuries, compulsory superannuation and long service leave. None of these benefits came without collective campaigning and bargaining that is impossible for the individual.

The dark side is on show in Australia right now - corruption and graft. We are discovering that certain greedy individuals working as union officials at high level have been using members funds as their own private slush funds. The latest to come to light has enriched herself to the tune of $1.4 million from the members of the Health Services Union. These workers include cleaners and kitchen staff associated with hospitals, and are among the poorest paid workers in Australia. In other unions associated with big construction bullying, intimidation and extortion is endemic and dirty deals are done between developers and corrupt union bosses to prevent costly delays such as a lightning strike when a concrete pour is about to start. It is not only corruption on the union side though - it involves politicians and businessmen as well. A large rock has been overturned and we are seeing what crawls beneath in the dark and dirty places.

I believe in organised labour but it is up to the members to make sure that the union organisers are working for the members and not for themselves. This means that you should follow union activity and politics, attend meetings and speak up when you see a need. Collective action demands everyone be active and pay attention. It isn't a matter of paying your dues then sitting back and waiting for others to do all the work.

The evening I sat for my last university exam when I was in my middle years I was driving home through traffic and I had the radio on. They played a recording of Paul Robson singing Joe Hill. All of my emotions bubbled up and I had to stop the car because I was sobbing. That song epitomised the struggle of the working man, and the price paid by some that I might be the beneficiary. I owe a debt of gratitude to men like Joe Hill.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
.... They played a recording of Paul Robson singing Joe Hill. All of my emotions bubbled up and I had to stop the car because I was sobbing. That song epitomised the struggle of the working man, and the price paid by some that I might be the beneficiary. I owe a debt of gratitude to men like Joe Hill.
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Thanks DW. I had never heard that song before. Just played Robeson's version and one by Joan Baez. It is sad.
 
That Teamsters guy, Jimmy Hoffa, was found to have been investing pension funds in Las Vegas gaming businesses. Or was that his predecessor Dave Beck? Or was it both? Hoffa's body has never been found.

My Mother's brother, my Uncle Frank, argued mightily with my Dad, who felt that any Tradesman worth his salt ought to be able to earn based on his abilities, rather than union contracts, Uncle Frank being a staunch supporter of the Printers and Engravers Union, paid his "dues" all his life. Guess his reaction when he retired and learned the pension fund had been milked all but dry? imp
 
Good point Thomas, forgot about that. A lot of things that were potentially hazardous to the employees were changed or fixed due to involvement of the Union.
 
The whole city of Broken Hill was a unique industrial environment for a long time.
The town was run by the Barrier Council and it had almost total say in everything that happened in the town.

Miners were very well paid because of an allowance known as the "lead bonus". Citizens of BH who didn't work for BHP or other mining companies found it hard to make ends meet because of the high costs of everything in the town.

Today things are very different.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
The whole city of Broken Hill was a unique industrial environment for a long time.
The town was run by the Barrier Council and it had almost total say in everything that happened in the town.

Miners were very well paid because of an allowance known as the "lead bonus". Citizens of BH who didn't work for BHP or other mining companies found it hard to make ends meet because of the high costs of everything in the town.

Today things are very different.
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As I mentioned DW I was born in BH ,I have not lived there since 1970 However I have two sons and two G/S living there
I know the population is only half to what is was when I was young due to the mines closing
 
"Look for the union label." The effort to bust the unions in the U.S. Is one of the major reasons for the demise of the middle class...
 
Unions have not just helped union members... Because of unions, all of us have the 40 hr. work week.. vacation pay.. health benefits.. sick pay.. Holidays off... etc.. It's the only time "trickle down" has worked. What the Unions got.. others did too.
 
Ralphy1 said:
"Look for the union label." The effort to bust the unions in the U.S. Is one of the major reasons for the demise of the middle class...
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Union busting is a hallmark goal for the GOP. Not only does it benefit their wealthy benefactors who would rather not pay higher wages and provide benefits... it also benefits the GOP... Unions tend to support Democratic candidates with campaign donations.. Union members tend to vote for the Democratic party. Busting up Unions has a dual purpose for Republicans.. Satisfy their donors.. and to win elections. That and the Gerrymandering of districts has been a very successful strategy.


Before anyone shouts about bringing politics into a discussion of the pros and cons of unions.... it is impossible to discuss without the political angle. Unions and the systematic dismantling of them by the GOP is purely political.... and for no other reasons than I've mentioned above.
 
Unions are absolutely needed and do promote better pay, working conditions including safety and treatment. But they can also fester attitude, by pass those more motivated, qualified, honest, healthy etc. There is a time and place for everything.
 
My husband had a rather negative experience with unions. Back in the day when he ran his company, he wanted to get a contract that he thought required union membership for all sub's so in an unusual move, he, the employer approached the union for membership for his company. In due course, they had signed up everyone and within a few weeks, he discovered that a union rep was approaching the guys and trying to get a little employer/employee hostility worked up with a view to pushing for some sort of work to rule situation.

The problem is that Don made a point of matching union wages, gave bonuses periodically, etc., and pretty much all the guys were real happy with the status quo. And about the same time, he discovered that he could have gotten the contract he was seeking, without membership so now the problem became how to extricate the company and staff from the clutches of the union bosses! I think he had to present signed documents from all the employees that said they didn't want to be in the union and a few months later, we were out.

Just as a note, he was talking to one of the guys that he'd first hired 20 years ago who still works for the same company and 'Stretch' (his nickname because he was so tall) was saying how he wished that Don was still there and the boss. And when he started the company about forty years ago, he hired another fellow to be first a worker and then subsequently moved him up to foreman and Bob is still there and MAY retire this year at the ripe old age of 80! So our company wasn't one that ever required union membership and for the most part, everyone was pretty happy and loyal :).
 
I am a total believer in the right to organize. But, I am also a total believer in the right to not organize. In other words workers should have the right to organize, the company and the government should not be able to stop them. And the government should permit no legislation that requires a worker to join against his or her wishes.
 
The GOP is going to give corporations a tax break to stir the economy. Who thinks those corporations are going to use some of that money to increase wages? Unions do have a place, and do serve a purpose. The rights you have in the workplace are there because of unions.
 
I don't see how it's possible to be only one way or the other when it comes to unions. No doubt many of the abuses that took place have been legislated away. There is a but that goes with that. But the government agencies that are supposed to help the worker when a dispute happens becomes bogged down in the system. Unions work to resolve those right away.


Unions will, as expected fight for the best wages, benefits & pension plans that reflect prosperous times. I think it's safe to say when manufacturing jobs were king/high paying/ that built the middle class. But what about now when lower paying service jobs are the tax support for unionized state & federal employees?


Out of interest I Googled this.


A lot of referances plus.


Also Try
how unions killed the auto industry unions killed the twinkie
unions killed detroit unions killed the american business meme
unions killed hostess how unions killed the steel industry
unions killed gm


Short version


Depending of the union. IMO a person can be both pro & con.
 
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