LTC discussion and self-insure trust discussion

mathjak107 said:
I do .. but I don’t want people here taking what you said about life insurance and asset shifting as being a good answer ..as far as a spouse and a plan it is badly flawed
Click to expand...
No, if one has the assets to provide for a partner, after one's death, the plan is, decidedly, NOT flawed.
 
Well that is not what you eluded to at all in what you suggested ...the problem is people parrot what others say and just keep perpetuating myth or misinformation ..in this case someone with out the resources will take what you said as the answer and it is badly flawed as a plan
 
mathjak107 said:
Well that is not what you eluded to at all in what you suggested ...the problem is people parrot what others say and just keep perpetuating myth or misinformation ..in this case someone with out the resources will take what you said as the answer and it is badly flawed as a plan
Click to expand...
Ignore.
 
Elderly gentleman last year in my parents condo complex in Florida off‘d himself in his condo. End stage cancer, in home care, been lingering for a year with another long year in front of him. Wrote a beautiful letter to his family, waited until his wife went to the grocery, turned on the shower, sat down on the floor of the shower and pulled the trigger. Problem solved.
 
mathjak107 said:
problem solved for that person , not for the family that has to deal with the loss
Click to expand...
To many, the issue is to know "what might happen" - worst case scenerio - and how to prepare for it.
To us, that would be if either one had a stroke/or incapacitation and was then admitted to a nursing home for the rest of their life. With a stroke it can be here one minute and far away the next, leaving the loved one(s) to cope with the decisions. Like Aunt Bea said, knowing your states laws - & the "spend down" requirements for Medicaid are very important. Of course, we all hope nothing like that would ever happen to ourselves or our loved ones, but knowledge is power.
 
being my dad spent 6 years in a home after a stroke and it financially really hurt his wife ( not my mom ) it is an important part of our planning .

as long as we have out ltc partnership plan that aspect is covered for us
 
mathjak107 said:
being my dad spent 6 years in a home after a stroke and it financially really hurt his wife ( not my mom ) it is an important part of our planning .

as long as we have out ltc partnership plan that aspect is covered for us
Click to expand...
Yes, its important to realize what might be needed, and to cover that base to protect assets, if possible...hoping of course, its never needed to "run that trap". Being hit emotionally and financially is about as bad as it could get. Hope your step mom or whatever you call her is doing better today!
 
she is , she passed away a few years ago .

but the home really left her in a pickle when my dad went in . it isn't just assets that are restricted but income is restricted for the stay at home spouse too
 
Retirement Educator said:
Mutual of Omaha has a life product that allows for accelerated care (chronic care). I've used this for several clients with pre-existing conditions that precluded them from getting LTC, but were approved for life coverage. I am happy to talk further if you have any questions.
Click to expand...
Mutual of Omaha was the company that raised our supplement rates the most for no reason...we went elsewhere and
saved a couple hundred bucks a month. We took no meds and had no pre-existing conditions. Ah well, it is what it is in the insurance world. You can't win, period.
 
Retirement Educator said:
Couple of thoughts - 1. traditional long-term care has no guarantee on premiums. That's for sure. It's a difficult world to navigate when all carriers are raising rates. 2. with hybrid products, you are able to purchase via guaranteed premiums, as it provides LTC style benefits, but on a life insurance chassis. Having premium guarantees and in many cases, the ability to one lump sum or a guaranteed 10 year schedule is vital to this planning.
Click to expand...
Yep, it can be a racket for sure. Lots of complaints on LTC policies. Might be a license to steal depending on the lender.
Its like everybody wants a buck from the seniors these days. LOL
 
Retirement Educator said:
Couple of thoughts - 1. traditional long-term care has no guarantee on premiums. That's for sure. It's a difficult world to navigate when all carriers are raising rates. 2. with hybrid products, you are able to purchase via guaranteed premiums, as it provides LTC style benefits, but on a life insurance chassis. Having premium guarantees and in many cases, the ability to one lump sum or a guaranteed 10 year schedule is vital to this planning.
Click to expand...


Retirement Educator said:
Mutual of Omaha has a life product that allows for accelerated care (chronic care). I've used this for several clients with pre-existing conditions that precluded them from getting LTC, but were approved for life coverage. I am happy to talk further if you have any questions.
Click to expand...
these hybrid policies are the most costliest way to get coverage ... if you have a choice to go other routes you should really look in to other ways first in my opinion .

as famed reasearcher michael kitces points out :

the reality is that the guarantee of LTC premiums in a hybrid policy may be entirely offset by the fact that the insurance company controls the cash value, and is under no obligation to pay a going rate of return, especially if interest rates rise. In other words, it doesn’t really matter that the insurance company can’t increase the premiums on the policy by $4,000/year, when the company can simply under-pay on the interest rate by $4,000/year to accomplish the same result! And while the cash value of a hybrid LTC policy generally does remain liquid, taking a withdrawal to reinvest to get better, higher rates would entail surrendering the policy and forfeiting the LTC coverage! In fact, for some types of hybrid LTC policies, the arrangement contractually provides no rate of return to the client at all, and is essentially the equivalent of the client selling a call option on interest rates to the insurance company, where the more rates rise the greater the company wins at the expense of the client!


https://www.kitces.com/blog/is-the-...-annuityltc-insurance-policies-just-a-mirage/
 
Liberty said:
Yep, it can be a racket for sure. Lots of complaints on LTC policies. Might be a license to steal depending on the lender.
Its like everybody wants a buck from the seniors these days. LOL
Click to expand...


hybrids are a poor deal in the end .. these hybrids can be the most costliest way to get coverage.

you can be sure anytime you try to get products to fulfill dual rolls and to try to act as something they aren't it ends up being a mediocre product and over priced for what it can actually do
 
Last edited:
Aunt Bea said:
LTC is a serious concern but at this point in our lives, most of us will be unable to make any significant changes in our finances.

We can take the time to understand Medicaid and the impact that it may have on an independent/surviving spouse.

IMO this is a good place to begin to understand some of the terms, federal limits, state limits, etc...

https://www.medicaidplanningassistance.org/mmmna-definition/
Click to expand...


There my be quite a few things one can do which is why it is important to see what the options are in your state ...

new york , ct and florida are the first states to actually have courts allow right of refusal to have little recourse ...

a now land mark case in ct had the judge order medicaid to find a fair amount for lets call her mrs jones to pay for her husbands care without upsetting her lifestyle ..

the judge said he did not want a state of seniors living in impoverishment because we have a bad long term care policy in this country ...

new york , fla and ct adopted this view . our estate attorney said that now has has all negotiation cases instead of recovery cases .

there are laws left in place to be utilized in many states just so 2 people don't end up on assistance . there are ploys like loans that can preserve half the assets .

so it is always worth consulting with a good attorney .
 
mathjak107 said:
There my be quite a few things one can do which is why it is important to see what the options are in your state ...

new york , ct and florida are the first states to actually have courts allow right of refusal to have little recourse ...

a now land mark case in ct had the judge order medicaid to find a fair amount for lets call her mrs jones to pay for her husbands care without upsetting her lifestyle ..

the judge said he did not want a state of seniors living in impoverishment because we have a bad long term care policy in this country ...

new york , fla and ct adopted this view . our estate attorney said that now has has all negotiation cases instead of recovery cases .

there are laws left in place to be utilized in many states just so 2 people don't end up on assistance . there are ploys like loans that can preserve half the assets .

so it is always worth consulting with a good attorney .
Click to expand...
I'm not disagreeing with you, that's why I posted the link.

IMO it's important for each of us to do our homework and understand how Medicaid works instead of living in fear of the unknown or because of various horror stories that get passed from one senior to another.

I also believe that consulting with an attorney or experienced social worker has merit but before I consult a professional I want to do my own homework and gather a list of concerns so the visit and the possible cost have value for me and my situation.

In many cases, average people of average means have little to fear from Medicaid but they do have to be able to navigate the ins and outs of the system as it relates to them and their family members.
 
Aunt Bea said:
I'm not disagreeing with you, that's why I posted the link.

IMO it's important for each of us to do our homework and understand how Medicaid works instead of living in fear of the unknown or because of various horror stories that get passed from one senior to another.

I also believe that consulting with an attorney or experienced social worker has merit but before I consult a professional I want to do my own homework and gather a list of concerns so the visit and the possible cost have value for me and my situation.

In many cases, average people of average means have little to fear from Medicaid but they do have to be able to navigate the ins and outs of the system as it relates to them and their family members.
Click to expand...

Very true.

And I also believe that one of the most common mistakes people make is not to understand that the Medicaid rules vary a lot from state to state, so they believe that what works for their Aunt Hattie in Rhode Island will work for them in another state. People think that the Medicaid rules are federal, and they are not. Not being aware of your state's particular rules can lead to disastrous decisions.
 
I remember my Fidelity team a few years ago telling me how so many wealthy clients would come in cluelessly wanting to know how to hide or shelter assets so they could qualify for Medicaid. He would tell them, “Seriously? You want to try and convince the government that your 3 million in investments and a paid for 2 million dollar home qualifies you for a government low income program?”
 
Floridatennisplayer said:
I remember my Fidelity team a few years ago telling me how so many wealthy clients would come in cluelessly wanting to know how to hide or shelter assets so they could qualify for Medicaid. He would tell them, “Seriously? You want to try and convince the government that your 3 million in investments and a paid for 2 million dollar home qualifies you for a government low income program?”
Click to expand...
Just like our tax system has your fair share of taxes , is whatever the lowest amount you can get them to using the laws and tools left in place for that purpose , so is protecting assets .

There are laws and tools purposely left in place for protecting assets and that is both legal and not hiding assets ....states don’t want to support two people , one of which is the impoverished spouse ...so all these things are left in place to be utilized.

Just like taxes , those better informed can certainly legally protect assets and comply with medicaid. Being smart and or informed is not a crime
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top