Lucifer, the devil and Satan? A philosophical/theological question

chic

chic

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Since this isn't really light hearted, Mods can feel to move it to the appropriate place.

I was thinking about the confusion of the interpretation of Lucifer, the devil and Satan and came to the conclusion that Lucifer and Satan are NOT the same person. Lucifer was God's first creation. He was the "son of the morning" and the most beautiful and perfect of the archangels but was flawed "in theory, or according to the bible" by his own intelligence, beauty and perfection which made him prideful and intolerant and ultimately, rebellious. He fought against God for all the power of heaven taking a third of the other angels with him.

Michael, second in supremacy in the realm of the archangels fought against Lucifer and the rebel angels and won heaven for God's rule and will.

Satan seems to be a figure who was almost coexistant with God. He was already in the garden of Eden ready to tempt Eve and bring about man's downfall and expulsion from paradise in Genesis. He was subordinate to God in that he did need to ask God's permission at times to do some things such as in the book of Job when God must first grant Satan permission to afflict Job's physical health which had previously been off limits according to God's will.

Satan is the one who is the father of lies, always deceiving mankind and trying to bring about our downfall while Lucifer who was only mentioned once, I believe, in the bible was just a fallen rebellious angel, though Milton's Paradise Lost puts a good spine on the theory.

Thoughts? Opinions? Please forgive me if I think analyze too much. There is little else for me to do these days.


🤗
 

I think asking these questions amongst so many unbelievers isn't exactly a healthy approach. You might have better luck surfing the net for information on it.
 

Genesis is somewhat murky, by intent?
It is difficult for us to grasp, rather it seems to be an article of faith.
Remembering we are finite creatures
We question, study and ultimately become confused.

God asked Job, "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the world?"
Perhaps there are things we are incapable of understanding.

The outline has been presented, the hints of how all these events came about;-the particulars are subject to interpretation.
Your's are as good as any others...
 
These are not my words but I agree with it. It's lengthy but summed up in the last paragraph...

"The name “Lucifer” comes from a translation of Isaiah 14:12. It literally means “bright star, shining star, or morning star.” Most scholars see this as a description of Satan before his rebellion against God. Passages like Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 teach that Satan was created the highest, most beautiful of the angels, but that his pride and desire for God’s own throne resulted in his being cast out of heaven and being given the name “Satan” (meaning “adversary”).

The first type of Luciferianism is really nothing more than the worship of Satan as the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4). Satan is venerated as a being of knowledge and light (2 Corinthians 11:14–15). The focus is on the “good” that was in Lucifer prior to his rebellion and not the evil and darkness that is associated with the name “Satan.” Though Lucifer and Satan are one and the same, Luciferianism portrays him as a god of light, a god of knowledge, and a god of magic. Luciferians seek to become gods themselves, a position attained by living a life of goodness, seeking after knowledge, practicing magic, and opening one’s mind to the cosmic mind of Lucifer. In many ways, Luciferianism resembles Gnosticism.

The other type of Luciferianism, which rejects the idea that Lucifer is a personal being, is still seeking enlightenment apart from the truth of God. These Luciferians may see themselves as lovers of light and goodness, but they are embracing falsehood. Satan does not care if people believe in him or not; he can still lead them astray.

Groups that adhere to Luciferian teachings are few and far between, though elements of Luciferianism are found in Masonic teachings, Wicca, and New Age philosophy. Because there is no agreed-upon dogma, Luciferian beliefs are extremely varied from group to group. The wide variety of beliefs among Luciferian adherents has contributed to the generally held belief that Luciferianism is simply a subset of Satanism, a mini-denomination of sorts. Although some adherents would be quick to denounce such a claim, Luciferianism is otherwise difficult to categorize.

One thing is certain: Lucifer/Satan is not a being to be worshiped, nor is he anyone to be treated lightly. He is a very powerful being and the enemy of our souls. The Bible describes him as “the devil [who] prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8). Those who get involved with him will eventually regret it, as he will devour their souls as a reward for their worship. “Resist him,” Peter exhorts in verse 9, “standing firm in the faith.” The faith he means is faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, because He alone can save us from hell, the ultimate destination of all who dabble in Luciferianism."
https://www.gotquestions.org/Luciferianism.html
 
SetWave said:
Whoever the hell you are, Get Thee Behind Me!
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Matthew 16:23 Jesus said: Get thee behind me, Satan, thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. (spelling of offense and savor is not an error...it's the english translation)
 
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Lara said:
These are not my words but I agree with it. It's lengthy but summed up in the last paragraph...

"The name “Lucifer” comes from a translation of Isaiah 14:12. It literally means “bright star, shining star, or morning star.” Most scholars see this as a description of Satan before his rebellion against God. Passages like Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 teach that Satan was created the highest, most beautiful of the angels, but that his pride and desire for God’s own throne resulted in his being cast out of heaven and being given the name “Satan” (meaning “adversary”).

The first type of Luciferianism is really nothing more than the worship of Satan as the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4). Satan is venerated as a being of knowledge and light (2 Corinthians 11:14–15). The focus is on the “good” that was in Lucifer prior to his rebellion and not the evil and darkness that is associated with the name “Satan.” Though Lucifer and Satan are one and the same, Luciferianism portrays him as a god of light, a god of knowledge, and a god of magic. Luciferians seek to become gods themselves, a position attained by living a life of goodness, seeking after knowledge, practicing magic, and opening one’s mind to the cosmic mind of Lucifer. In many ways, Luciferianism resembles Gnosticism.

The other type of Luciferianism, which rejects the idea that Lucifer is a personal being, is still seeking enlightenment apart from the truth of God. These Luciferians may see themselves as lovers of light and goodness, but they are embracing falsehood. Satan does not care if people believe in him or not; he can still lead them astray.

Groups that adhere to Luciferian teachings are few and far between, though elements of Luciferianism are found in Masonic teachings, Wicca, and New Age philosophy. Because there is no agreed-upon dogma, Luciferian beliefs are extremely varied from group to group. The wide variety of beliefs among Luciferian adherents has contributed to the generally held belief that Luciferianism is simply a subset of Satanism, a mini-denomination of sorts. Although some adherents would be quick to denounce such a claim, Luciferianism is otherwise difficult to categorize.

One thing is certain: Lucifer/Satan is not a being to be worshiped, nor is he anyone to be treated lightly. He is a very powerful being and the enemy of our souls. The Bible describes him as “the devil [who] prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8). Those who get involved with him will eventually regret it, as he will devour their souls as a reward for their worship. “Resist him,” Peter exhorts in verse 9, “standing firm in the faith.” The faith he means is faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, because He alone can save us from hell, the ultimate destination of all who dabble in Luciferianism."
https://www.gotquestions.org/Luciferianism.html
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Wicca is not Satanism. I know many Wiccans who'd be deeply offended by the thought. I'm not advocating worship of Lucifer or Satan. I'm discussing the history of the difference between the two. The Catholic church taught they were the same but other Christian denominations don't concur and neither do I. Everybody has a different take on it probably depending on what denomination they belong to.
 
Keesha said:
Ummm.... Turkish Delights. Love them things! 💕
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Unknown-1.jpeg
Sorry, but that sent my mind into salacious territory. (As some would say, "The devil made me do it," but I don't believe in any such thing so it's just my fault for being a lonely old man. :geek:

My sincere apologies for any unintended offense. Please carry on with the discussion of evil in the world.
 
SetWave said:
View attachment 162599
Sorry, but that sent my mind into salacious territory. (As some would say, "The devil made me do it," but I don't believe in any such thing so it's just my fault for being a lonely old man. :geek:

My sincere apologies for any unintended offense. Please carry on with the discussion of evil in the world.
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Me too SetWave...but my mind went here when I read "Turkish Delights"

Afternoon Delight...remember the 70's?...me either :unsure:

 

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