Market Volatility

I am moving a few thousand into actual cash from my checking account (which doesn't pay any meaningful interest anyway). My concern is that this new virus might force our area into a quarantine of some sort and impact purchasing normal goods if the stores banks start to get "squirrely."
I may be wrong in doing this as a precaution, but actual cash can always be spent later when this virus plays out. We are also adding a few items to our pantry just in case of a quarantine or major disruption to the food supply. I don't see the power grid or the water system as being threatened so much of what people are stocking up on seems a bit strange to me.
For our IRA's, I am largely leaving them alone after having transferred a fairly large sum to CD's a couple of months ago when the market looked unsustainable. It is too late to do much now given the unpredictability of the market.
 

Oh! Sorry, I didn't know that!
Gaer...even if the OP was Tim Buckley, that wouldn't phase me. I get to listen to podcasts featuring important financial folks, if I want, as a Schwab client. I once hobnobbed with the CEO of the Caterpillar company. They are all just humans and make mistakes like the rest of us. And I've had several incidences that proved to me that financial "experts" don't always get it right.
 
The thing I find strange about this recent market volatility is that gold and silver don't seem to be moving much....either up or down. I think "metals" may be a sign of market bottoming if they start to spike upwards substantially.
 

The short term changes in the market have no impact on my pension/SS and I do maintain a cash cushion so I plan on bumping along without making any changes.

I agree with Pecos that it's comforting to keep a little stash of actual cash on hand for emergencies.

It will all work out.

"Cash combined with courage in a time of crisis is priceless." - Warren Buffet
 
These things are already starting to happen. Stores are running out of toilet paper, paper towels, disinfectants, etc. At work, I've had to cancel several of my co-worker's travel arrangements because of canceled meetings. We went over our pandemic plan at all the different levels. We are in for a rough ride, I'm afraid.

A couple of weeks ago when I first starting hearing about the market being affected by the corona virus concerns, I decided to pull out of the market in my 401k and put everything in a fund guaranteed not to go down. I have worked hard to reach my investment goal, and I didn't want this epidemic to take half of it. I'm glad I did and sleep better at night because of it. We'll see when things start normalizing again.
How do you know when to get back in?
 
The thing I find strange about this recent market volatility is that gold and silver don't seem to be moving much....either up or down. I think "metals" may be a sign of market bottoming if they start to spike upwards substantially.
treasuries are soaring and at this point are the vehicle of choice . although gold is up 33% over the one year which aint bad ....TLT the long treasury bond fund is up about 43%
 
while mentally we think cash buffers add some mythical benefit , they really don't . they are only a mental thing .

in fact looking at the 119 30 year retirement cycles we had to date 50/50 and 100% equities had almost the same success rate .

the reason is without the weight of cash and bonds the up years are so much higher that even with the drops you still tend to have a higher balance .

mentally most of us don't want high equity positions in retirement , but financially there is no real down side ..

cash buffers are a mirage .

as famed researcher michael kitces points out

Executive Summary
As baby boomers continue into their retirement transition, two portfolio-based strategies are increasingly popular to generate retirement income: the systematic withdrawal strategy, and the bucket strategy. While the former is still the most common approach, the latter has become increasingly popular lately, viewed in part as a strategy to help work around difficult and volatile market environments. Yet while the two strategies approach portfolio construction very differently, the reality is that bucket strategies actually produce asset allocations almost exactly the same as systematic withdrawal strategies; their often-purported differences amount to little more than a mirage! Nonetheless, bucket strategies might actually still be a superior strategy, not because of the differences in portfolio construction, but due to the ways that the client psychologically connects with and understands the strategy!


https://www.kitces.com/blog/are-retirement-bucket-strategies-an-asset-allocation-mirage/

Executive Summary
Cash reserve strategies that hold aside several years of spending to avoid liquidations during bear markets are a popular way to manage withdrawals for retirees. In theory, the strategy is presumed to enhance risk-adjusted returns by allowing retirees to spend down their cash during market declines and then replenish it after the recovery. Yet recent research in the Journal of Financial Planning reveals that the strategy actually results in more harm than good; while in some scenarios the cash reserves effectively allow the retiree to “time” the market by avoiding an untimely liquidation, more often the retiree simply ends out with less money due to the ongoing return drag of a significant portfolio position in cash. As a result, the superior strategy for those who want to alter their asset allocation through market volatility (the effective result of spending down cash in declines and replenishing it later) appears to be simply tactically altering asset allocation directly, without the adverse impact of a cash return drag. Nonetheless, this still fails to account for the psychological benefits the client enjoys by having a clearly identifiable cash reserve to manage spending through volatility – even though the reality is that it results in less retirement income, not more. Does that mean cash reserve strategies are still superior for their psychological benefits alone, even if they’re not an effective way to time the market? Or do total return strategies simply need to find a better way to communicate their benefits and value?

https://www.kitces.com/blog/researc...s-dont-work-unless-youre-a-good-market-timer/

FOR THE RECORD I DO USE A CASH BUFFER , it just feels more comfortable to me even though financially there is no real benefit
I'm aware of the "expert" opinions regarding cash reserves. And I should point out that our cash reserve was established not by selling securities, but by shifting investment strategies from buying and holding value stocks to investing in stocks that consistently pay dividends, preferably those with a history of increasing payouts.
 
Also this is NOT the time to be getting out of the market! No matter what the current valuation of your investments is, you haven't lost anything unless you sell. IRA down $10K? That's a paper loss: it will come back, though it may take some time. But if you sell, that loss becomes real.
 
I'm aware of the "expert" opinions regarding cash reserves. And I should point out that our cash reserve was established not by selling securities, but by shifting investment strategies from buying and holding value stocks to investing in stocks that consistently pay dividends, preferably those with a history of increasing payouts.
Good quality stocks that pay dividends will continue to do so.
 
Panic only creates more panic. I agree with stay the course. But it also depends on your age
and how long until you need the invested money. Very old investors may not survive the
correction, or not fully recover their losses. The media is building this virus disease into a giant calamity.. Likelihood of most people getting the virus is a tiny fraction now.
I have made mistakes with stocks, but my losses are low. The analysts on the internet that I read are only right 30-40% of the time by their own measures.
Anagram for Investor is STRIVE ON. Question is: why not buy now while prices are lower?
 
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Panic only creates more panic. I agree with stay the course. But it also depends on your age
and how long until you need the invested money. Very old investors may not survive the
correction, or not fully recover their losses. The media is building this virus disease into a giant calamity. To be cynical, this is good for the news business. Likelihood of a typical person getting the virus is a tiny fraction.
I have made mistakes with stocks, but my losses are low. The analysts on the internet that I read are only right 30-40% of the time by their own measures.
Anagram for Investor is STRIVE ON. Question is: why not buy now while prices are lower?
two reasons .... fear we may go lower so it causes analysis paralysis and number 2 , just fear itself and investors are afraid to add more and becime gun shy .

personally i have my line in the sand ... if we hit my figure down i will move some money from my conservative model to my more aggressive model ... i don't try to predict a bottom , i stick to the plan
 
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Now, on top of this virus scare, it appears that Saudi Arabia and Russia have begun a "price war" that is driving crude oil prices down substantially. This will probably prove to be good for consumers as gas prices at the pump drop....but may prove to be damaging to industries like Shale Oil, and Canadian Tar Sands.
On top of the likelihood that travel and entertainment businesses will suffer in coming weeks and months, we may have to add substantial areas of the Energy industry to those that will spiral downwards.
This morning, stocks were taking such a hit that Wall Street suspended trading for several minutes. More to come?????
 
Now, on top of this virus scare, it appears that Saudi Arabia and Russia have begun a "price war" that is driving crude oil prices down substantially. This will probably prove to be good for consumers as gas prices at the pump drop....but may prove to be damaging to industries like Shale Oil, and Canadian Tar Sands.
On top of the likelihood that travel and entertainment businesses will suffer in coming weeks and months, we may have to add substantial areas of the Energy industry to those that will spiral downwards.
This morning, stocks were taking such a hit that Wall Street suspended trading for several minutes. More to come?????
the oil shock has much further reaching implications and none good .

the energy companies borrow tons of money . they issue bonds in the BBB . range.. in fact half the corporate debt today is BBB .

that is the last rung in investment grade . one small down grade in credit rating and these bonds are no longer investment grade .

every insurer , pension fund , mutual fund and institution that can not hold anything but investment grade will have to dump them .

junk yields will soar causing many companies to default on billions .... this can credit shock our credit markets 2008 style . this is bad .
 
the oil shock has much further reaching implications and none good ..... this can credit shock our credit markets 2008 style . this is bad .

I haven't been too worried about the market fluctuations for the past several years....the trend has been up nicely....perhaps Too Nicely. However, in the past couple of weeks, my "Gut Feel" is telling me that all this is about to change....Big Time. I think we are seeing the door open to a repeat of 2008.
 
I haven't been too worried about the market fluctuations for the past several years....the trend has been up nicely....perhaps Too Nicely. However, in the past couple of weeks, my "Gut Feel" is telling me that all this is about to change....Big Time. I think we are seeing the door open to a repeat of 2008.
no one knows ... the stage certainly seems set for it ...but as we all know . out of no where something not even on the radar yet seems to alter what we all see and think , both up and down .

right now i took profits in my long term treasuries and gold .. so i have a portfolio with about 22% equities and the rest assorted bond funds ranging from ultra short to total bond and some floating rate high yield .

now the plan is to add the 100% growth model i mix in at times to beef up the equity portion .

i bought about 50k worth today ....i will add more every 5% drop .... if we recover sooner , no problem , i can live with this model for a long time if need be
 
We are not seeing a "dip" rather a collapse in confidence pushed by the unknown virus and tumbling oil and bond prices. To buy now is crazy in my opinion. Stocks are falling all over the world. Banks are nervous and possibly we will slip in to a recession. There is no reason just or theoretical to buy in this chaos.
 
We are not seeing a "dip" rather a collapse in confidence pushed by the unknown virus and tumbling oil and bond prices. To buy now is crazy in my opinion. Stocks are falling all over the world. Banks are nervous and possibly we will slip in to a recession. There is no reason just or theoretical to buy in this chaos.
Then don’t if you feel that way .... even at 65 we have money we won’t be eating with for 20 to 30 years ...any diversified funds bought now will be looking great by then ....if anyone thinks they are going to time a bottom they are setting themselves up for missing the biggest gains early on when the direction changes .
this is like free money in times like this .... I expect to pick up an extra 200k dollars in shares compared to what I had when I went more conservative last year before the drop and was running this model ..

where the bottom is I have no idea ....but in the long term ,who cares .... in fact if we didn’t talk about the old bear markets I wouldn’t remember they happened
 
Today 03/09/20 Dow Down 7.79% (The worst drop ever), S&P Down76.0, NAS Down 7.29%

Yup, another day like this, and the markets will "Officially" be into a Bear Market. I've been reading a number of "expert" opinions, and none of them are sounding optimistic about the near term markets....some are even suggesting that the markets could go down as much as 40% from their recent highs. I've even read a couple of "opinions", over the weekend, suggesting that the global economies may sink into a deep recession.
 
it is only about total return -period ... not whether they give you a forced quarterly withdrawal or not . if the total return is down your investment is down the same as any other stock with the same total return .

Again your post does not make sense.

"forced quarterly withdrawal" say what? Its about the dividend and in almost all cases its not forced, it come our of profits.

The total return does not enter in until you sell a stock...basic stock market 101.
 
Again your post does not make sense.

"forced quarterly withdrawal" say what? Its about the dividend and in almost all cases its not forced, it come our of profits.

The total return does not enter in until you sell a stock...basic stock market 101.
Bull .... dividends have nothing to do with profits ...it is an amount decided to be paid out by the board profits or not .....companies lose money and pay dividends right in to the blue chip graveyard .

Dividends are a withdrawal off your existing share price —end of story..

whatever they withdraw and give you back has the dollars subtracted off your investment before it can trade ...all market action is on the reduced value once it trades .

please stop posting nonsense without first learning about what you are posting..you obviously have no clue as to how dividends work or even what they represent .
 


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