Migrants Storm Greece-Macedonia Border

Ina said:
Fazefour bringing back citizenship classes would be a good beginning. It worked for this country for many decades. But in today's, "Right Now" attitude, it would be butchered. Remember the time element, and I think as it stood it was fair.

I'm not heartless, but we do need to vet our immigrants very carefully, and with 'their' infrastructure in the mess it is, just how do we verify their claims. But I f we don't our country could look as war torn and in rubble as the ME does in a very short period of time. This is not just paranoia popping out. I too can see what is happening in the ME, and although I am an uninformed person, I still don't want to see my great-grandchild live in such a world.

I too think we should help those that are truly in need, such as family units. But I do question the wisdom of letting single men of military service age into our country. I remember the USA jailing our young men if they tried to leave this counrty while we were at war. We called them deserters and traitors, and we put them in jail. So why is it ok for this country to except from immigrants what we punished our own for?
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I do not disagree with you, Ina. And I believe that if congress proposed bringing back citizenship classes, it could get through in today's environment. I don't recall the arguments for discontinuing it...maybe cost. There was nothing 'politically incorrect' about it, as far as I remember. Barring people of a certain age (such as military age) would be considered discriminatory, I'm afraid. In the ME, you can not apply for a visa and cannot leave the country unless you have served 2 years in the military. And mandatory military service likely complicates the vetting process. Our vetting process leaves much to be desired, imo.
 

Canada offers free language courses in French/and/or English to refugees/immigrants. There are also programs designed to help newcomers integrate into Canadian society. In the town where I live, the Intercultural Society offers a bridge between

immigrants from a variety of countries/ethnicities, and established persons, who, where possible, share some commonality. This can reduce feelings of isolation enormously. The society holds public events also, where all members of the community are

encouraged to attend. Ohhhh the food! Dancing, music. Stories. Wonderful stuff. I am always having my hands and feet hennaed. Beautiful stuff. Soon, I shall begin to learn how to cook some lovely Syrian food. I wonder if my clients would like


to try Canadian salmon? When the Syrian refugees arrived in my town, among the welcoming committee, was the Chief of our local First Nation tribe, along with some elders. Eagle feathers, Salish baskets, smudging etc. were among the ceremonial welcoming rituals etc. It fostered a real sense of dignity and inclusion, and acceptance and respect for the beauty of diversity.


If they wish, once they master English, our refugee kids can learn the local First Nation language, along with French, while attending school. There is a generation of Caucasian kids here, who are fluent in the local indigenous language. Multicultural inclusion works. Just takes time, and commitment.
 
FazeFour said:
Yes! That's why I wish they'd bring back citizenship classes. The classes included basic language. In cases where the applicant just couldn't get the hang of it, he or she was required to present an interpreter to the INS examiners, an interpreter who could be available to the applicant on a regular basis/as needed.
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What you say there sounds very reasonable to me FazeFour, and I don't see how anyone could object to that.
I mean, it is in the immigrants own interests to learn English, otherwise they cannot really succeed trying to climb up the ladder of integrating into the country they have fought to get into.
Be it the US of A, or the UK.
 

Ina said:
Fazefour bringing back citizenship classes would be a good beginning. It worked for this country for many decades. But in today's, "Right Now" attitude, it would be butchered. Remember the time element, and I think as it stood it was fair.

I'm not heartless, but we do need to vet our immigrants very carefully, and with 'their' infrastructure in the mess it is, just how do we verify their claims. But I f we don't our country could look as war torn and in rubble as the ME does in a very short period of time. This is not just paranoia popping out. I too can see what is happening in the ME, and although I am an uninformed person, I still don't want to see my great-grandchild live in such a world.

I too think we should help those that are truly in need, such as family units. But I do question the wisdom of letting single men of military service age into our country. I remember the USA jailing our young men if they tried to leave this counrty while we were at war. We called them deserters and traitors, and we put them in jail. So why is it ok for this country to except from immigrants what we punished our own for?
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Ina, I agree with you. How in the world can you effectively vet refugees from a place with no infrastructure, no records?? How can the person even prove who they are? And I am not heartless, either, but I do not want my grandchildren to grow up in a situation like the middle east is in today. I believe we must be sure the refugees are wiling to accept our culture and our laws.

I strongly agree that we must be very careful, and I think it is extremely unwise to dump thousands of people (of whatever faith or nationality) into our already financially strained states where even citizens are having a hard time finding jobs, if indeed they can find them at all, and we have large numbers of poor and homeless already. It's pie in the sky to think that jobs are going to miraculously appear, or that our already strained school systems are going to be able to accommodate hundreds or thousands of new students. Here in NM, our school systems are already overflowing and struggling, partly because of illegal immigration from Mexico and central America. Just where is all this money going to come from? How can our country support all the people?

And what exactly IS our vetting process for the ME -- how in the world can we get reliable information about people who cannot prove who they are?
 
Butterfly;

What exactly IS our vetting process for the ME -- Department heads at Homeland security couldn't even come up with any numbers when asked at a congressional hearing "How many people are in the country who have over-stayed their visas?"

How in the world can we get reliable information about people who cannot prove who they are? -- As to ME refugees, their records are kept within a gov't central office. Safely, I assume. Mosques and churches keep records as well.
 
FazeFour said:
Butterfly;

What exactly IS our vetting process for the ME -- Department heads at Homeland security couldn't even come up with any numbers when asked at a congressional hearing "How many people are in the country who have over-stayed their visas?"

How in the world can we get reliable information about people who cannot prove who they are? -- As to ME refugees, their records are kept within a gov't central office. Safely, I assume. Mosques and churches keep records as well.
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Whose government central office? You mean back in Syria?
 
Butterfly said:
Whose government central office? You mean back in Syria?
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Yes, in Syria. You have to register marriages, births, and deaths with the gov't. Copies of those, plus military records and other stuff, can be obtained from a gov't office (actually two offices, I believe).
 
FazeFour said:
Yes, in Syria. You have to register marriages, births, and deaths with the gov't. Copies of those, plus military records and other stuff, can be obtained from a gov't office (actually two offices, I believe).
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They are still open for business in time of war? My guess is social media tells as much as any records from a war torn country.
 
WhatInThe said:
They are still open for business in time of war? My guess is social media tells as much as any records from a war torn country.
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In a refugee vetting process, the gov't that is doing the vetting requests documents from the gov't from which the refugee is seeking refuge. Whether that gov't voluntarily shares those documents is anyone's guess. The vetting gov't gets what it can from whatever source it can, and the refugee does the same. Vetting gov't uses civil officers, district magistrates, liaisons, ambassadors, websites and etc. Refugee may contact his mosque, synagogue, or church, his/her gov't, and family members. He/She also (usually) has a legal representative. In extreme cases, FBI, CIA, or Interpol agents are used, and even social media.

Almost everyone on the planet has a "paper-trail". And, yes, gov'ts are open for business even in times of war. It's easy to understand why the vetting process can take a while. But in the case of refugees, they only look for specific things, such as a criminal record, a history with a cartel or terrorist group, etc. They don't much care when you were baptized.
 
I'm not convinced a lot of that info is reliable. Or that the person (refugee) can truly prove who they are -- that's one of the biggest problems; anybody can say they are anybody. We've had trouble here with illegal immigrants stealing identities, both of citizens here, and of citizens in Mexico. Not saying all immigrants are bad, not by any stretch, but the bad ones (especially if they are ISIS plants) can do a hell of a lot of damage.
 
Butterfly said:
I'm not convinced a lot of that info is reliable. Or that the person (refugee) can truly prove who they are -- that's one of the biggest problems; anybody can say they are anybody. We've had trouble here with illegal immigrants stealing identities, both of citizens here, and of citizens in Mexico. Not saying all immigrants are bad, not by any stretch, but the bad ones (especially if they are ISIS plants) can do a hell of a lot of damage.
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And, as I said earlier (or maybe in another thread) American Homeland Security and INS are an inefficient mess.

I will say this about terrorists sneaking in with the ME refugees; I kind of doubt they would wait at a border for this long, hungry and without resources, among thousands of refugees and their families, and chances for entry still uncertain.
 
And the situation worsens.as much as borders are closed.they will find ways ,things willl become hostile.all these people can't stay there.there will be major conflicts.
 
WhatInThe said:
.......

And yes the Arab or neighboring states in that region have shown to be useless if not ignorant at this point.
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Not useless or ignorant WhatInThe. I think the neighbouring Arab countries have gone a long way towards causing all of this with religious, commercial and political intentions at the root of it all. I've read in numerous places that funding for ISIS came or comes in large part from Saudi interests, as well as Qatar and Kuwait. Not useless or ignorant, just guilty.
 
Debby said:
Not useless or ignorant WhatInThe. I think the neighbouring Arab countries have gone a long way towards causing all of this with religious, commercial and political intentions at the root of it all. I've read in numerous places that funding for ISIS came or comes in large part from Saudi interests, as well as Qatar and Kuwait. Not useless or ignorant, just guilty.
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Your right. I think a lot of that comes down to the factional feuds like Sunni v Shia v Wahabee etc. Throw in some nationalism not good.
 
Bulgaria and Albania closed its borders.
I think it's dispicable what's going on.

There are estimated 41,000 refugees in Greece.

Physical violence between Syrians and Afghanistanis are occuring,and also over food rations.

People are suffering.

I don't know what will happen to an allready drowning economicaly country.
 
Faze, perhaps my post lacked clarity. I was referring to the fact that entering the country legally, as opposed to the drawn out, precarious refugee status, would be the best way of committing terrorists acts.
 
Shalimar said:
Faze, perhaps my post lacked clarity. I was referring to the fact that entering the country legally, as opposed to the drawn out, precarious refugee status, would be the best way of committing terrorists acts.
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Yes, you are right. And if there was a small army of terrorist that followed the refugees to that and other closed/delayed borders, they are gone now, I'm sure. They wouldn't waste their time waiting this long.
 

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