Missouri Man charge with setting 13 fires in California
- Thread starter Trade
- Start date
RadishRose
SF VIP
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
OMG, depressed or not, the name S.O.B. is too mild for this freak.
jujube
SF VIP
Thirty-some-odd years ago, there used to be an old cruise ship operating out of Port Canaveral that did "day cruises to nowhere". It caught on fire. It took what seemed like weeks to put it out and then it caught fire again. They put out the fire again and darned if it didn't catch on fire again. Rinse and repeat.
Finally, they caught one of the firemen (who was a "contract" fireman, hired for this job only) resetting the fires so that he could continue working.
In another case somewhere else in the country, they discovered that the mother of a fireman was setting fires because she was so "proud" of her son being a firefighter and was setting fires so that she could go watch him put them out.
There are a lot of strange people out there......
Finally, they caught one of the firemen (who was a "contract" fireman, hired for this job only) resetting the fires so that he could continue working.
In another case somewhere else in the country, they discovered that the mother of a fireman was setting fires because she was so "proud" of her son being a firefighter and was setting fires so that she could go watch him put them out.
There are a lot of strange people out there......
fuzzybuddy
SF VIP
- Location
- The Sticks, Northeast PA.
A pyromaniac is someone, who has a compulsion to set fires. Pyromania is a mental illness. This guy, Freddie Owen Graham, ( why do these idiots always have three names?) was charged with arson, which is the intentional setting of fires. I'm not an attorney, but I did graduate from the TV School of Law & Order. Doesn't that mean, if there were any deaths caused by these acts of arson, there would be murder charges against him?
DaveA
Senior Member
- Location
- Coastal Massachusetts, USA
Seems sort of puzzling why someone from Missouri would travel all the way to California to torch the State? He could have saved himself some money by torching his hometown or the town next door. Maybe we'll find out as he's questioned as to his motive.
RadishRose
SF VIP
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
I would agree with you.
RadishRose
SF VIP
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
Drier state, bigger fires, bigger thrill, I'm thinking.
Public hangings are no more, with Calif turning into a replica of Dresden-
execute that fella.
Again, being naïve, never considered rash of currennt forest fires as being deliberate.
Calif in big trouble! No info as yet of pyro nuts, wonder?
National news shows fire fighter exhausted: Damit, call out National Guard, issue shovels... apparently, were willing to do nothing while our peers get crisped!
execute that fella.
Again, being naïve, never considered rash of currennt forest fires as being deliberate.
Calif in big trouble! No info as yet of pyro nuts, wonder?
National news shows fire fighter exhausted: Damit, call out National Guard, issue shovels... apparently, were willing to do nothing while our peers get crisped!
RadishRose
SF VIP
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
Maybe @911 will remember this from police school.
I have a friend who was a state trooper here. He saw my downstairs neighbor's laundry hung out on the line, nurse's uniforms, panty girdles, bras, etc.
He asked me if there were any suspicious fires in our little neighborhood, I said no, why?
He said he learned in "cop school" that stolen underwear often means a pyromaniac was getting ready to strike.
He was right, and I was the victim.
Not long after the neighbor said her underwear was missing from the line.
Soon after that, my little boy was playing outside with a somewhat older kid, new in the neighborhood.
I called my boy in for lunch and invited the other boy who refused.
While my boy sat down to eat, I went out onto our enclosed porch to fold the laundry I had put on top of the dryer and found they were on fire! Matchbook still there.
Even the curtains were catching and the only 2 exits were accessed by going past that dryer and down the stairs.
I smacked most of it out, followed with my son's milk, his soup and pots of water.
Not long after that, I saw that kid's father outside. I asked him if anything strange was happening and told him about the missing laundry and the fire.
He said he knew it was his son, he'd done it before, had started therapy and that's why they had to move from their old place.
They moved out soon after.
I have a friend who was a state trooper here. He saw my downstairs neighbor's laundry hung out on the line, nurse's uniforms, panty girdles, bras, etc.
He asked me if there were any suspicious fires in our little neighborhood, I said no, why?
He said he learned in "cop school" that stolen underwear often means a pyromaniac was getting ready to strike.
He was right, and I was the victim.
Not long after the neighbor said her underwear was missing from the line.
Soon after that, my little boy was playing outside with a somewhat older kid, new in the neighborhood.
I called my boy in for lunch and invited the other boy who refused.
While my boy sat down to eat, I went out onto our enclosed porch to fold the laundry I had put on top of the dryer and found they were on fire! Matchbook still there.
Even the curtains were catching and the only 2 exits were accessed by going past that dryer and down the stairs.
I smacked most of it out, followed with my son's milk, his soup and pots of water.
Not long after that, I saw that kid's father outside. I asked him if anything strange was happening and told him about the missing laundry and the fire.
He said he knew it was his son, he'd done it before, had started therapy and that's why they had to move from their old place.
They moved out soon after.
Turn on, tune in, drop out?
RadishRose
SF VIP
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
OMG, Are you an R. Crumb fan Pepper? Or Timothy Leary?
I did like R. Crumb and have been a guest of Dr. Tim's at his home in Millbrook NY. Anyway, RRose, that saying is a known one to most folks, I think.
OK, put your schooling to work on this hypothetical situation. (However, it really did happen.)
Suppose an arsonist sets a fire and initially everyone inside gets out safe without even a scratch. Now, one man suddenly remembers that he left his paycheck in his other pants and is hanging on a clothes tree in his bedroom and tries to get back inside to recover his paycheck. He never returns. Hours later, after the fire has been extinguished, he is discovered lying about 9 feet from the door to the outside. The coroner stated that the "cause" of death was smoke inhalation. The "manner" of death is what? This is YOUR defining moment that will determine if the arsonist, (if found guilty), will go to prison for the rest of his life or not.
So, what say you?? (Hint: Remember, there are 5 legal manners of death: Natural, Suicide, Homicide, Accidental and Undetermined.) You are all 12 jurors. How do you rule? Guilty or Not Guilty. If Guilty, Guilty of what and why? If the arsonist is Not Guilty, why?
Don M.
SF VIP
- Location
- central Missouri
I know the mayor of Lone Jack....a small town a few miles SE of Kansas City. He knows this Graham guy, and said that this guys wife recently died, and that the guy has been on a downward spiral since. The news said that Graham was in California to attend some sort of reunion, and it appears that he went cuckoo while out there.
911
How do you prove intent?
If I set a bld. on fire, when I knew people were inside-my intent was homicide.
You cannot prove a thought process when trial occurs.
I will state at my trial, 'I had no intent of killing anyone, I just wanted to see a fire.'
You think differently, but you cannot 'prove it'.
Quandary! Ambiguous! Circular reasoning in jury room, blab, blab, blab
You, as a member of the jury, lack any mind reading ability.
Consequently, you have to go with manslaughter charge
How do you prove intent?
If I set a bld. on fire, when I knew people were inside-my intent was homicide.
You cannot prove a thought process when trial occurs.
I will state at my trial, 'I had no intent of killing anyone, I just wanted to see a fire.'
You think differently, but you cannot 'prove it'.
Quandary! Ambiguous! Circular reasoning in jury room, blab, blab, blab
You, as a member of the jury, lack any mind reading ability.
Consequently, you have to go with manslaughter charge
How do you prove intent? Answer: Through investigation. If you were owed a lot if money for drugs, gambling, loan whatever and the person didn’t pay, so you decided to take out your revenge by taking him out. You find out where he lives, go inside, make him unconscious, set his house on fire. This is not only arson, but also criminal homicide. We have proved intent.
In the first situation, it’s obvious that the only intent by the arsonist was to burn the house. Everyone got out safely, then 1 person decided he needed to go back in the burning house and get his check. However, a death occurred. The question is: Did the arsonist by his actions cause the man to lose his life or did the man, by his choice, cause his own life? After all, as adults, we are taught to recognize that going into a burning house may cause our death.
OK, so jumping ahead. The Coroner and Prosecutor in this case could not agree on the manner of death, so an inquest was held. After all of the evidence was presented and reviewed by the Coroner, he decided to list the manner of death as a homicide. The Prosecutor was not real confident at trial of getting a conviction of Criminal Homicide (First Degree Murder). So, as an alternate, he allowed the jury to consider Voluntary Manslaughter. The jury found the arsonist Not Guilty of Criminal Homicide, but guilty of Voluntary Manslaughter. He was sentenced to Life w/o Parole. In Pa, any Life sentence is w/o Parole.
911
Agree/ and disagree
Events that must be considered:
Your case was not resolved before the trial-a rare occurrence.
You know the DA's office is keyed to a conviction, the most likely charge he can sell to the jury.
The correct charge bows to the potential for a charge that he/she is reasonably sure will result in a conviction.
My experience is- plea bargaining is sought by DA and Defense Counsel; neither wishes to lay their case before any jury; don't tread in unpredictable territory?.
The Judges Docket supersedes all other concerns, he wants the case resolved
before it hits his court room.
Justice is clouded by
DA's-office-I want a conviction, the charge is secondary
Defense-I will bargain until I get the lowest charge possible
Judge-don't jam my docket
If we can hammer out an agreement, there is no need for the uncertainty of a jury.
(I have not forgot all the complications that occur before the actual trial:
each party seeking certainty before entering court room.
I did not mention Defense Counsel's concern, "He cannot pay my bill if he is in prison." I have witnessed some of the antics defense counsel pull on relatives: those who hopefully can foot his bill if sonny boy goes to the pen.)
Agree/ and disagree
Events that must be considered:
Your case was not resolved before the trial-a rare occurrence.
You know the DA's office is keyed to a conviction, the most likely charge he can sell to the jury.
The correct charge bows to the potential for a charge that he/she is reasonably sure will result in a conviction.
My experience is- plea bargaining is sought by DA and Defense Counsel; neither wishes to lay their case before any jury; don't tread in unpredictable territory?.
The Judges Docket supersedes all other concerns, he wants the case resolved
before it hits his court room.
Justice is clouded by
DA's-office-I want a conviction, the charge is secondary
Defense-I will bargain until I get the lowest charge possible
Judge-don't jam my docket
If we can hammer out an agreement, there is no need for the uncertainty of a jury.
(I have not forgot all the complications that occur before the actual trial:
each party seeking certainty before entering court room.
I did not mention Defense Counsel's concern, "He cannot pay my bill if he is in prison." I have witnessed some of the antics defense counsel pull on relatives: those who hopefully can foot his bill if sonny boy goes to the pen.)
Yes, an arsonist could be charged with murder if someone dies in a fire he set. Check out this FIRE CAPTAIN who set several fires, killing 4 people. He's serving life in prison. (he should be serving death):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Leonard_Orr
Most jurors lack any mind, period.
That's what's wrong with the jury system.