Moving into the high mountains ?

Traveler said:
It is entirely possible that I am living in the past. All of the properties that I have seen thus far (at least in the west) are either cheap priced properties that are out on the plains, without a tree in sight or are ridiculously high priced wooded land.

Whatever it takes, I just know that I've got to get out of the city. Too damn stressful for me.

There must be somewhere I can live without being bothered by crime, big government bullies, that want to control every little thing I do, and far away from people.

I've always been a Travelin' man. 5 years in one spot seems like an eternity. What makes other people happy, bores me to death. Sure would be nice to have one last great challenge.
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One can have complete freedom, privacy, peace, anywhere, even when confined

within one's mind
 

ancient mariner said:
Before you go off like Jeremiah Johnson, check out the Off the Grid vlogs on YouTube. Some of the "loners' have gone "bonkers" in short order.
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Thanks for your concern but I'll be just fine. I don't have any plan on living totally self-sufficient. Once/month I'll be going into a town for supplies. Besides, I'll have plenty to keep me busy. And a big Malamute to keep me company. :)

In case you're wondering, part of the plan will be to have a solar powered D.C. system, for lights and such. Actually, when I can get to a place where I never hear about society gone crazy, I should be in heaven.
 
Traveler said:
Thanks for your concern but I'll be just fine. I don't have any plan on living totally self-sufficient. Once/month I'll be going into a town for supplies. Besides, I'll have plenty to keep me busy. And a big Malamute to keep me company. :)

In case you're wondering, part of the plan will be to have a solar powered D.C. system, for lights and such. Actually, when I can get to a place where I never hear about society gone crazy, I should be in heaven.
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Now THAT sounds great to me!! You GO FOR IT!!
 
Traveler said:
Thanks for your concern but I'll be just fine. I don't have any plan on living totally self-sufficient. Once/month I'll be going into a town for supplies. Besides, I'll have plenty to keep me busy. And a big Malamute to keep me company. :)

In case you're wondering, part of the plan will be to have a solar powered D.C. system, for lights and such. Actually, when I can get to a place where I never hear about society gone crazy, I should be in heaven.
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This may be of interest to you.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/
 
ClassicRockr said:
Now THAT sounds great to me!! You GO FOR IT!!
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I have not yet decided exactly how self sufficient I want to be. Off the grid, yes. Absolutely. But I may decide to have a propane tank to run a refrigerator and a water heater. OR, I may up the cost a bit and go full solar. But that is darn expensive if I have it produce A/C and not just D/C
 
The biggest problem is finding a parcel of land where the government will leave me alone. Especially the water part. I don't care what their laws are. If I have water crossing my land, I have a God given right to use a meager amount for my own needs. But I don't think it is going to be an insurmountable problem. They have to catch me first and that's going to be very difficult for them.
 
Traveler said:
The biggest problem is finding a parcel of land where the government will leave me alone. Especially the water part. I don't care what their laws are. If I have water crossing my land, I have a God given right to use a meager amount for my own needs. But I don't think it is going to be an insurmountable problem. They have to catch me first and that's going to be very difficult for them.
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Your neighbors will not agree. They won't just report you to the government; they'll take whatever action they deem necessary.

I own agricultural land and water rights. I own guns too.
 
Big Horn said:
Your neighbors will not agree. They won't just report you to the government; they'll take whatever action they deem necessary.

I own agricultural land and water rights. I own guns too.
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I don't mean to argue with you BUT how can anyone deprive me of a little water ? Seems to me like a stacked deck favoring the wealthy.
Seriously. Am I not human ? Are you saying people would actually kill me over a tiny amount of water ?

If I wanted to damn the creek, that would be different, but that is not my intention. I just want to live as a free human.

Actually kill me for a few gallons of water ?
 
Traveler said:
I don't mean to argue with you BUT how can anyone deprive me of a little water ? Seems to me like a stacked deck favoring the wealthy.
Seriously. Am I not human ? Are you saying people would actually kill me over a tiny amount of water ?

If I wanted to damn the creek, that would be different, but that is not my intention. I just want to live as a free human.

Actually kill me for a few gallons of water ?
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It's not your water. Try to take a tiny amount of my money (water rights cost money) and prepare to fight me to the death. You can live as a free human being, but you cannot be a thief and expect to survive.
 
Big Horn said:
It's not your water. Try to take a tiny amount of my money (water rights cost money) and prepare to fight me to the death. You can live as a free human being, but you cannot be a thief and expect to survive.
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So, it is a stacked deck in favor of the wealthy. You would literally kill me over a tiny amount of water ?
 
I signed up for that site Bighorn gave me. I posted a question about the so-called "water-rights". The answer I got back said that rich men can indeed buy ALL the water and they will stop at nothing to keep poor people from having water to drink and cook with. They said that those rich men have bought off the government and they now OWN THE CLOUDS AND THE RAIN
Unfreakin' believable. I wonder if someday I'll have to pay a rich man to breathe the air.
 
It seems to me that any law that prohibits a human from thriving on his own land, is an immoral law.

Look at it this way. In the western portion of the U.S., much of the land is federal property. (Natl Forests, Natl. parks, BLM etc). That means we, as citizens, own that land. Snow and rain fall on "our" land. The snow melts and the rain falls, and it runs off down the drainage. The water is a natural resource and is owned jointly by all of the citizens of America. It is, or should be, used for the enjoyment, and survival of all.

It is my contention that everyone, every American, has a limited right to that water. What do I mean by a limited right ? Well, I mean that no group of rich Americans has any right to say, "that water is mine, no one else may use it". I also mean that no one has a right to dam the water.

I contend that everyone who has the means to purchase a small parcel has an absolute right to free use of that water, PROVIDED he/she does not attempt to hog it all for himself. Also, he/she should not be allowed to use more water than is needed to survive on a most basic level. That means, water for drinking, cooking, bathing, washing clothes, and even a small family garden.

What is my idea of a family garden ? It would be just barely enough for my own personal use. In other words not so large that I could sell produce, and make a profit.

I don't need,or want, to own all of the water. I just want to survive in the country and live in peace.
 
Big Horn said:
Your neighbors will not agree. They won't just report you to the government; they'll take whatever action they deem necessary.

I own agricultural land and water rights. I own guns too.
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many a western novel (Louis L'Amour types) have been based on water rights
and what made those westerns sell was they were based on history
I understand what Traveler is saying
But
The land owner downstream don't quite see it that way
especially when they represent a crack in the dam...of 200 million seekers of 'a meager amount'

I'd pursue a well

...even that gets tricky
 
For those of you who live in other parts of the country, there are places in the U.S. where it is illegal to catch rain water from your own roof and then use that water. Nor can you drill a well or take water from a creek on your own property. Heck, you can not even allow your horse to drink from that little stream. Why not ? Because some rich folks a hundred miles away, 500 miles away, claim that THEY, AND THEY ALONE, OWN THAT WATER
 
I found out today from an off grid guy that collecting rainwater in his state of Montana is perfectly legal. still checking on Idaho.
Some counties in that general area get 23' of rainfall/year. If I collected every drop that fell on a 20 x 15 foot tin roof, that would give me 4,100 gal. Works out to 11.2 gal /day for domestic use. a new 500 Gallon potable water tank costs only $323 USD. I could hire a backhoe for 1/2 day to bury the tank below frost line. I can do all the plumbing myself. No problem. Saves a LOT of money.

It would then be a very simple matter of getting a few used Arco solar panels, hooking them up to a bank of deep-cycle batteries and then running a D/C water pump into the cabin. ( this D/C system is exactly like an R.V. system). The D/C water pump is an "on demand" system, when not running, uses no juice. Turn on the tap, pressure is released and the pump automatically turns on. A tried and true RV system.

Also, for household D/c power, I would use the same system to run lights.
 
Traveler said:
I found out today from an off grid guy that collecting rainwater in his state of Montana is perfectly legal. still checking on Idaho.
Some counties in that general area get 23' of rainfall/year. If I collected every drop that fell on a 20 x 15 foot tin roof, that would give me 4,100 gal. Works out to 11.2 gal /day for domestic use. a new 500 Gallon potable water tank costs only $323 USD. I could hire a backhoe for 1/2 day to bury the tank below frost line. I can do all the plumbing myself. No problem. Saves a LOT of money.

It would then be a very simple matter of getting a few used Arco solar panels, hooking them up to a bank of deep-cycle batteries and then running a D/C water pump into the cabin. ( this D/C system is exactly like an R.V. system). The D/C water pump is an "on demand" system, when not running, uses no juice. Turn on the tap, pressure is released and the pump automatically turns on. A tried and true RV system.

Also, for household D/c power, I would use the same system to run lights.
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Looks good on paper

solar power and water catchment gets interesting
one requires sun
the other requires clouds
what one does for power, whether stored or not, when the rainy season comes...and stays, requires alternate sources
what one does for water, when the dry season arrives, gets expensive
500 gallons seems a lot
it's not
and keeping what is kept, potable....gets one's immediate attention when it becomes other than
that's when a good outhouse facility comes in handy
 
Speaking of storing water.......when I was working in Nam and living with the locals, during the rainy season we'd catch rain water in 55 gal. drums and no matter how tight the lid was after 'X' period mosquito larvae would be present in the water.

When mixed 50-50 in a glass with the potent homemade local hooch you could actually see the little buggers curl up and die after a few seconds......they didn't seem to hurt the taste or affect the buzz one bit. :)


mosquito-culicidae-larvae-and-pupae-in-a-stagnant-pond-in-yorkshire-emdrc9.jpg
 
I do not know about southern Idaho, but in the northern part, there are a lot of people who live on the land and do not have electricity or running water. It is fine to catch any rainwater that you want , and some people have an underground storage tank that they can siphon it off into and then pump it into the house as needed.
I had a friend that did this when i was living in Idaho.
She had rain gutters on the house and outbuildings and they all caught the rainwater and it went into a drain that led to a large underground storage tank that was like you would use for a well, or even a septic system.
She only had to haul water in the very deepest heat of summer, usually late July and part of August, and she did have to be considerate of how much water she used, especially during the summer months.

Some people use generators and some have solar or even wind-generators to produce their own electricity.
Before I had power connected, I used an RV pump connected to a large deep cycle battery to pump water into my house. I used a small solar panel, and also charged the battery with my pickup when necessary, and this worked fine.
I think that Idaho is definitely a place that you should check out, Traveler.
 
Hello HappyFlower,

You and I are definitely working on the same page. I am zeroed in on Northern Idaho/Western Montana. Precisely where, will depend on how I "feel" about a site. I want/need some mature trees and some open ground. Also, if my "neighbor" blows his car horn, and I can hear it, I'm waaay too close to people.

Because of the complications of catching rainwater, relatively free of bird droppings and leaves/pine needles etc I'll be building in an open area. The same applies to the solar system. An area with a good south facing exposure is critical.

Re: water system. In addition to the rainwater catchment, with a 500 gallon underground tank, I plan on having a 250 gallon tank that is designed to fit neatly into the back of a pick-up truck. Thus, when I go to town, once/month, for groceries, doing laundry at the laundromat, picking up mail and special orders from Amazon (especially books, lots and lots of books), I can fill up the water tank at the same time.

I did some checking on the amount of annual rainfall. Generally speaking, that area gets 23"/year. That works out to 4,088 gallons/year just from my metal roof. Asphalt is BAD NEWS for collecting safe potable water. The rainwater catchment will yield an average of 11.2 gallons/day/year.

For those interested, the water filter system, is gravel, small pea sized gravel, sand, and on the lowest level, activated charcoal. Survivalists tell me that produces crystal pure, delicious water. :D

I am still thinking about a septic system that can produce a clean/safe garden fertilizer. I have not yet worked out the precise details, but I know I'll need a biodegradable T.P, and some of that live organism stuff (I forget the name right now) that turns human waste into mulch.

Another factor I have not yet investigated is what kind of dish and hand soap to use so that I will be able to water my garden with "gray water". This will be a simple matter of having 2 separate holding tanks (R.V. Style).
 
I am pleasantly surprised to be in contact with so many "off grid" folks. Lots and lots of great personal experience/info out there. It's really starting to come together. And I am happy to report that it will be MUCH cheaper than I thought it might be.

I have down-sized the sq. ft of the cabin plan to 504 sq ft. For $6,000 I can build an unfinished but, weather tight cabin. Provided I do all the work myself. I figure I can get the job done in 3 months.
 

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