My rant about the VFW.

squatting dog

squatting dog

We don't have as far to go, as we've already been
Location
Arkansas, and also Florida
Believe it or not, In the 1970s, there were instances where, in some VFW posts, Vietnam veterans had trouble getting in.
For whatever reason, the members didn’t believe in that war. I know because I was one of them.
It angered me because this should not have been about believing in a war. It should have been about believing in men. Men who stood for what you stood for.
To be dishonored by those who had stood in your boots, held your beliefs, bled the same blood for their country was unfathomable. However, They didn’t want to hear it.
PTSD was not recognized officially until 1980, when the American Psychiatric Association (APA) added PTSD to the third edition of its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-III) nosologic classification scheme (2). Although controversial when first introduced, the PTSD diagnosis has filled an important gap in psychiatric theory and practice.

So, you knew something about you wasn't quite right, but, where could you turn for help? You can’t tell your wife. You can’t tell your friends. I was a 19 year old who went off to a war and I came back a year and a half later a very old man. How could I stop being who I was and be with these people who didn’t even know me anymore?

So, you turned to the VFW. Yet, some were turned away. These day's Vietnam vets have gotten more acceptable and I doubt there are any VFW posts that wouldn't welcome them. Some, like myself have not and will not come back. Not even now.
 

squatting dog said:
I know because I was one of them.
It angered me because this should not have been about believing in a war. It should have been about believing in men. Men who stood for what you stood for.
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Absolutely! They, more than anyone,should know that soldiers don't get to take a vote before going in to battle. Basic training is all about learning to obey without argument.

My husband plays bugle for the local veteran's funerals. The honor guard is made up of VFW members. When my husband saw they were using a recording rather than a real bugler he asked if he could play for them and at first they didn't want to allow him to do it because he wasn't eligble to join the VFW. He served in the USAF for 22 years and was loading bombs in the theatre of operations during the Vietnam war but not quite a veteran of foreign war the way you are. He doesn't argue with that, he didn't want to join, he just wanted to play for the funerals. They finally let him, but, sheesh.

Most of the funerals these days are for Vietnam vets and middle east wars.
 

@squatting dog, back then I heard that the VFW didn't let 'nam vets in because Vietnam was never a "declared" war. That was a big put-off for me, but since I'm not all that much of a "joiner" for social groups I didn't care much, just rubbed me wrong on principal.
It's only been the last 3 years or so that I've gone to the local VFW for dinners or chili cook-offs,after the wife of the post commander who is a gym friend, she assured me the VFW welcomes Vietnam vets.
 
I've been asked many times since I retired to join the local VFW.
Never joined and never will, even though I meet the requirements twice.

I to, will never forget the stand the VFW took against Vietnam Vets in the 70's.

Somethings you just can't undo.

I support the American Legion and DAV, but the majority of my donations go to the USO.
 
It was obvious that the class of 45 didn't want to risk having their power theatened by a bunch of Vietnam Vets with a different outlook. The one time I visited a VFW drunk tank was shortly after I got out of the service. A group of men at the bar said to me, "we don't want you kids in here...you lost your war". I never thought about going back even for a visit. Many of the halls in this area have subsequently closed for lack of members.
 
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Dog, you had a right to be upset with that club for being disrespectful. Declared war or not, it was a war. How can anyone say it wasn't?

I belong to the American Legion. I have been to the VFW as a guest on a few occasions with friends. I liked our Legion better because they had just added a new section onto it for dining, which is open 5 days per week for both lunch and dinner and this Legion is very community oriented giving to a lot of financial help to kids' and seniors' programs.

They also loan, or in some cases gives wheelchairs, both manual and electric, hospital bed, crutches, etc. The club has become more charitable now than when I first joined. I used to like listening to the WWII stories from the old Veterans and I was awed by a lot of the Vietnam stories. I have to say though, the WWII stories were better, only because a lot of the old-timers would tell stories of what they did on leave. I heard a lot of funny stories.

I also donate to the USO.
 
Nathan said:
@squatting dog, back then I heard that the VFW didn't let 'nam vets in because Vietnam was never a "declared" war. That was a big put-off for me, but since I'm not all that much of a "joiner" for social groups I didn't care much, just rubbed me wrong on principal.
It's only been the last 3 years or so that I've gone to the local VFW for dinners or chili cook-offs,after the wife of the post commander who is a gym friend, she assured me the VFW welcomes Vietnam vets.
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Yeah, somehow it never occurred to us to ask if it was a "declared war". Looked real enough to our squads. :(

never enough ammo.jpg
 
I remember those years during and after Vietnam when we were disrespectfully treated by Veterans of previous wars. I never tried to become a member of the VFW because of the stories I heard. I joined the American Legion in Olongapo, Philippines in 1972-73-74 when I was in the Navy. I had a lifetime membership there although I never returned there after 1974. About ten years later I threw my membership card away because I found it difficult to use it here in the USA. I have not joined another American Legion stateside because it was not the same. The American Legion in the Philippines was great, you were treated with dignity and respect. Many Filipino men joined and served in the U.S.Navy so they would join the American Legion there. It was a nice place to go and be with fellow Filipino and Americans who served in the U.S.Military. Here stateside it was a different story at some American Legions that I went to, and I will not elaborate on that. I meet younger veterans when I go to VA group therapies and medical appointments and make sure that I do not treat them disrespectfully as I was buy other and previous veterans during and after the Vietnam War.
 
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Our vets in Oz who had fought in Vietnam were treated badly in similar ways - not sure if they were not permitted to march in ANZAC parades or use the RSL clubs that other returned WWII and WWI were using but I remember the jeering well - it was recorded on TV channels. What a shame
 
@squatting dog and other Vietnam Vets among us.

i didn't know that about the VFW. i knew returning vets had trouble with individuals and that VA services varied greatly from one locale to another but hadn't heard that. But then we didn't have social media at the time

It upsets me because while i didn't think we belonged there, i never disrespected service personnel and veterans, nor did i allow others to badmouth them in my presence. For a Veterans organization to take that position was/is horrible. i knew a few others that were like me but it was not a popular position to take: That the conflict itself could be criticized while still respecting the troops, appreciating their service.
 
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Yeah, it has always upset me too. This "greatest generation" stuff did too. They were a great generation allright but those boys in Vietnam could give them a run for their money any day.

And adding this to my rant. They didn't "lose" the war. They weren't allowed to win it.

Sorry, I still have some strong feelings about this.
 
When I got out of the US Navy in 1972, the VFW was for WWIII and Korea geezers ONLY. Now, that I'm a Vietnam geezer and probably could join. But I'm not gung ho military, and a liberal. I doubt the VFW would roll out the red carpet for me.
 
Reminds me of the “Shakers”, an extreme religious group of the 1700’s that required absolute celibacy. They soon dwindled in number. But they gave us “Shaker Style” furniture, which we have in our own kitchen.
 
PTSD was known in WW II, well enough that it was one of the themes in the 1944 movie "I'll Be Seeing You." Another social stigma the movie explored was serving time in prison for a dubious offense.

While it is less well known and maybe a "smaller" Christmas film than "It's A Wonderful Life" and such from that era, it is still pretty good.

My point being that there wasn't much excuse by the 1970s for it to still be viewed as it was.
 
Fartmaster said:
VFW is a joke to me
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In 1967, when young men were dying right and left in Vietnam, my husband told his grandmother not to worry, he couldn't be drafted because I was going to have a baby and there was a deferment for fathers. Her instant reply was, "Oh no! Now you won't be able to join the VFW!"

It became a joke to us, too.
 
I was in the army in 1974 at ft polk I know about the VFW but i do hear it is going tits up I will not join it for nohting
but I dont like to drink beer or wisky so dont care
 
I never served, missed the draft by 1 year.

I do know the Navy was after me, and I nearly panicked when they took me to some building with a huge anchor out front for a battery of standardized tests. On breaks the other guys said they'd already signed up.

They hounded me for years after high school. Lots of promises, mutterings about their nuclear power program. I guess they like my test scores, but I didn't want to end up shoveling pitchblende in New Jersey.
 
When PA still had blue laws which did not allow bars to be open on Sundays, there was an exception for the VFW and American Legion. They offered social memberships for people who just wanted to go someplace to get drunk on a Sunday.
 
Here in Canada, the Royal Canadian Legion WAS the accepted veteran's group since it's start in 1921. MY Dad, a Great War Canadian Army guy, was a life member at Branch 82, in our town. Now, the RCL is a mere shadow of it's former self, as the actual veterans from WW2 and Korea are dying.

Recently, the RCL has been running a national membership drive, using the slogan "Anyone Can Join ". Ex Canadian Forces members who served in the past 30 years, have organized and joined their own military veteran's clubs, that are the direct opposite to the RCL's style. The RCL is now a group with few, if any actual military members in it's ranks. Individual Canadian military units do have their own "Old Comrades Associations " for those that served in that specific unit, in the past. I am a member of the 48th Highlanders of Canada OCA. JImB.
 
I honestly didn’t understand the ramifications of this topic until now.

How do members get drafted to go to war and not get acknowledged as injured in the aftermath? This topic is mind boggling. It’s a topic filled with resentment and anger but how could it not?

How does a government as their people to fight in a war, then not even acknowledge they’ve even been in one, let alone get killed or seriously insured? I’m lost for words.

Anyway this topic is too heavy for my mind to tackle so I am out.

Painting baseboards, trim and my bedroom today. A lot of work to be done.
Peace ☮️ man. ✌️
 
I had the same experience with the VFW when I returned so I swore off vet organizations. Now of course, things have changed but the memory still remains. I belong to the VVA now but don't attend meetings Just want to belong.
Vet organizations are much like service itself. You are a newby until you are accepted.
I Get it!
Just at the time I needed help and it wasn't there, from where I was sure it would be.
Now, on hindsight, I understand. Don't agree but understand.

rbtvgo
 

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