Not trying to be controversial (female boxer with XY chromosome)

[Della]

I don't think people hitting each other in the face should be an Olympic sport at all, but as long as they have it women shouldn't have to fight against a person who passed puberty as a biological man.

I feel sorry for transgendered people and all they have to go through to feel right about themselves, but maybe some competitive sports aren't going to be open for them. They aren't open for most of us.

There's a reason that a man hitting a woman is taboo and a reason that women have their own sports teams and rarely compete against men. It's testosterone! No amount of trying harder or training more is going to make a woman as strong as a man. His muscles were formed with something extra. Men can't have babies, women aren't as strong.

Testosterone increases tissue growth at the epiphyseal plate, which leads to growth spurts and skeletal muscle growth. A woman can't exercise that into being.

 

[George1959]

The Problem is the women don't know about it, it's all this new woke $hit, no one is allowed to say anything for fear of invading their privacy!

I agree with you, they shouldn't be allowed to compete, I hope the national boxing federations reach a consensus very soon.
It would be a shame to drop boxing from the Olympics.

Yes, but in this special case the Algerian sportsperson had already failed a gender eligibility test. The Italian woman and her trainer knew it. But even after the lost fight she did no clear statement with her remark "who am I to say that it's wrong?".

 

[CallMeKate]

Thank you @hollydolly, I did not know she was called and warned.
Either way, though he should not have been allowed to compete.

That picture posted here... is really annoying me. *Maybe* I'm imagining it, but with that poor girl in tears, I detect a smug look on the guy's face. Is it too much to hope that someone will knock the arrogance out of him? Maybe he needs a boxing match with a man who's not afraid to SAY he's a man when signing up for a sports event.

 

[George1959]

Testosterone increases tissue growth at the epiphyseal plate, which leads to growth spurts and skeletal muscle growth. A woman can't exercise that into being.

And this advantage in people who had a male puberty stays the whole life with them, even after castration. For this reason I'd not even such a person let compete in sports with a biological female. Balls or no balls doesn't make a difference after a male puberty, since such people are always much stronger. Going on with this would be the end of all female sports.

 

[Trish]

Yes, but in this special case the Algerian sportsperson had already failed a gender eligibility test. The Italian woman and her trainer knew it. But even after the lost fight she did no clear statement with her remark "who am I to say that it's wrong?".

I am guessing she said that as, had she actually said it was wrong, she probably would have faced a backlash from those who think it is right. There lies a dilemma for people in sport today, they are often worried about voicing an opinion on a subject which is considered controversial.

Khelif is not a biological female, as you mention above, Khelif failed the gender eligibility test. I agree with the suggestion of a third team where biological gender is not a requirement.

A fuming JK Rowling last night slammed an Olympic boxing match as 'a man beating a women in public for entertainment' after a female boxer once disqualified for failing a gender test forced out an Italian opponent.

A global backlash, led by Italy's prime minister and the Harry Potter author, ensued after Angela Carini quit to 'save my life' just 46 seconds into her bout against Algerian opponent Imane Khelif, claiming she had been hit so hard that she 'couldn't breathe'.

Rowling called Khelif a 'bullying cheat' and hit out at Olympic bosses who she branded 'disgraceful' for allowing the bout to go ahead.

Women's rights campaigner Ms Rowling tweeted a video of the fight and wrote: 'Watch this then explain why you're OK with a man beating a woman in public for your entertainment.

'This isn't sport. From the bullying cheat in red all the way up to the organisers who allowed this to happen, this is men revelling in their power over women.'

I'm sorry but the boxer in red looks very clearly male to me....

Carini's coach Emanuele Renzini reportedly said after the fight: 'I don't know if her nose is broken. But many people in Italy tried to call and tell her: 'Don't go please: It's a man, it's dangerous for you'.'

The United Nations' Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls, Reem Alsalem, backed Carini saying she 'rightly followed her instincts and prioritised her physical safety, but she and other female athletes should not have been exposed to this physical and psychological violence based on their sex.'

And Labour MP and feminist campaigner Rosie Duffield told the Mail: 'For days, we have been highlighting the potential danger of this specific event to the IOC [International Olympic Committee] who chose to go ahead and ignore us.'

Former Prime Minister Liz Truss also said: 'When will this madness stop?'

JK Rowling slams Olympic boxing match after woman quits in 46 seconds

My answer to that question, if this is allowed to continue, is "when a biological female is beaten to death by a biological male in the guise of sport". I appreciate that not everyone will agree but, sadly, I think that will be the outcome.

 

[Beezer]

 

[Timewise 60+]

After she quit, when he came up to her side and put his arm on her shoulder, instead of turning away, she should have turned and
cold cocked him right in the face and said, "OK, now that's a fair fight!"
I know. That's just in my dreams. They're controversial.

She should have turned to him and kneed him in the groin, to demonstrate to all that he is a male...

 

[OldFeller]

Okay. So tell me again why women want to box?
Make it a men's only competition. Then if a woman wants to cheat to compete, she gets what she deserves.

 

[chic]

Should never be allowed to compete.
What happens when a female boxer dies in the ring from a punch from one of these people?
There is talk that if this trans-gender fighter issue can not be resolved then boxing might be dropped from the Olympic Games.

Taken from Men's Journal 2nd August 2024

Still, the IOC is looking into how to better implement gender eligibility rules moving forward. If the issue isn't resolved, you might not see boxing at all when the Olympics comes to Los Angeles in four years.

"The IOC has made it clear that it needs national boxing federations to reach a consensus around a new international federation in order for boxing to be included on the sports program of the Olympic Games LA28," the statement concluded.

If a biological male who identifies as female should punch and accidentally kill a biological female who he is boxing with, would he be charged with murder or is all okay because he identifies as female?

 

[George1959]

If a biological male who identifies as female should punch and accidentally kill a biological female who he is boxing with, would he be charged with murder or is all okay because he identifies as female?

A legitimate question. I hope this will never happen, that a woman gets killed in such a fight.

 

[George1959]

Okay. So tell me again why women want to box?
Make it a men's only competition. Then if a woman wants to cheat to compete, she gets what she deserves.

Um, yes. I even find male boxing matches brutal and not worth watching. In fact, why the hell would women want to do this?

 

[Pepper]

I’m not at all familiar with boxing but it seems to me that if two people in the same weight class are fit and well trained what they have between their ears would be more important than what they have between their legs.

Sorry. Males have significantly more upper body strength.

 

[George1959]

Sorry. Males have significantly more upper body strength.

Yes. For this reason I don't understand Aunt Bea's arguments at all.

 

[Pepper]

Yes. For this reason I don't understand Aunt Bea's arguments at all.

Maybe she didn't know that.

 

[George1959]

Maybe she didn't know that.

I hope so.

 

[Aunt Bea]

Yes. For this reason I don't understand Aunt Bea's arguments at all.

That doesn’t seem to be the case with Patricio Manuel born Patricia Manuel.

I don’t think any of us are qualified enough to offer anything but our opinions and discuss the possibilities.

It will be interesting to see how all of this shakes out in the years to come.

 

[VintageBetter]

I don’t know why women want to box, but as timoc said, it should probably be three categories now: Men, women, and transitional. How to judge who belongs where? Science. Take their hormone levels and place them according to the science of that.

Oh I know some people will hate me for saying that, but this is physical fighting and truly, someone could get killed with one blow. It doesn’t happen often, but it does happen.

 

[Murrmurr]

If all biological female athlets would not participate in matches with people with XY chromosomes, this would come to an end soon. But they are eager to win and yet come off a loser. Politics will not change the situation. The women must do it.

I don't know what the Olympic rules are re: refusing to participate in an event you're scheduled to compete in. I'm guessing it either disqualifies you or defaults the win to the opponent. But if it's the latter, then how would scores and rankings be calculated?

If you refuse to participate, you probly get disqualified.

Refusing because foul play is suspect is another matter. That usually happens after an event, and it gets reviewed/investigated.

 

[Trish]

I don’t know why women want to box, but as timoc said, it should probably be three categories now: Men, women, and transitional. How to judge who belongs where? Science. Take their hormone levels and place them according to the science of that.

Oh I know some people will hate me for saying that, but this is physical fighting and truly, someone could get killed with one blow. It doesn’t happen often, but it does happen.

But, you are right on both points, in my opinion.

 

[OneEyedDiva]

I have a friend who feels as you do about this subject Tish.

 

[CallMeKate]

For me, a more important question than why would women want to box is why are these biological men choosing to fight women? They feel they couldn't defeat a man opponent? And since the topic is Olympics, let's talk about a champion gold medal winner from the past... I can't even *imagine* Caitlyn Jenner choosing to compete against women in a sport of strength. She wouldn't. There are lines that would not be crossed. The world knows and accepts that she's no longer Bruce... but she wouldn't cross those lines.

 

[hollydolly]

If a biological male who identifies as female should punch and accidentally kill a biological female who he is boxing with, would he be charged with murder or is all okay because he identifies as female?

he wouldn't get charged with murder.. at very worst it would be accidental death..manslaughter.. maybe.. but probably not charged with anything at all because it would have happened as an accident while taking part in a sport..

This is one of the main reasons this nonsense of men acting as women in sport competing against women should be stopped immediately..

 

[hollydolly]

I don’t know why women want to box, but as timoc said, it should probably be three categories now: Men, women, and transitional. How to judge who belongs where? Science. Take their hormone levels and place them according to the science of that.

Oh I know some people will hate me for saying that, but this is physical fighting and truly, someone could get killed with one blow. It doesn’t happen often, but it does happen.

this is my Daughter camera right with one of her students...... she's is a Kickboxer, Martial artist.. trainer and kickboxing judge ....

 

[AnnieA]

IMO this has more to do with how uncomfortable and unfamiliar we are with gender reassignment.

It will all be messy and perhaps unfair until we identify and address all of the consequences and changes that come with it.

Women have fought many battles for sports funding and opportunities.

If trans people want sports, it's time for them to fight their battle separate from biological women. There should be a separate category.

 

[George1959]

That doesn’t seem to be the case with Patricio Manuel born Patricia Manuel.View attachment 359204

I don’t think any of us are qualified enough to offer anything but our opinions and discuss the possibilities.

It will be interesting to see how all of this shakes out in the years to come.

This is a completely different case. He was born a girl but became a man. In Germany we had such a woman athlete Ivonne Buschbaum who underwent gender reassignment surgery and became a man, who named himself Balian Buschbaum. After becoming a man he ended his career, since he never could compete with men. You won't find a single woman who became a man and competes with biological males. They would have absolutely no chance to win. I am not in the least against transsexuals, but I am against foul play. A former person who had a male puberty competing against a biological woman is foul play. I love Joanne K. Rowling and other women and men for their statements.