Oz is firing up early this year.

I think that 62m years theory is stretching credibility. The propensity for one or two species to make that adaptation isn't proving that the joint was on fire at the time. Many mutations prove useless, eucalypts were just lucky that they had that trick to survive when they needed it.

There were many now extinct species of non fire resistant plants around up until relatively recent times. Like the Wollomi Pine. Like the palms in Palm Valley. They are the remnants of wetter climate forest in what is now scrub and desert. They aren't fire-proof. He's just trying to get the Kooris off the hook as starting the process with fire-stick technology.

He warns against using fossilised pollen of just a few species to make far-reaching conclusions about the spread of bushfires, and adds that it's highly unlikely that bushfires were frequent 62 million years ago. "At this period of time the whole of Australia was dense rainforest – a super wet environment," he says.

Robert goes on to question the idea that unique regenerative ability of eucalypts first evolved as an adaptation to fire. "It could have been frost or drought or insect damage; there are all sorts of things that damage foliage," he says.
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Yes DB, October is the official start, but we've had 200 since early September, just sayin' it's started a bit early this year, and we don't usually get them all at once until around Jan/Feb.

The CSIRO article says it. We are the foreigners here, not the fires. The bush needs the fires to survive by regeneration, we need to learn that before building where we do. And wonder if doing environmental good deeds by planting fire bomb eucalypts in our gardens is a good idea.

Fires that go through areas often, go through quickly, and cause little damage to the environment. 6 weeks later it's green again, 6 months later you'd never notice a fire had been through it at all.
Areas that are prevented from regular firing build up more fuel to produce more intense fires that are not survivable by even the eucalypts.

e.g. The Royal National Park fire a decade or so ago. There were century old trees that died in that because regular burn offs had been stopped. Some mental giant thought that a National Park's vegetation was different to the rest and would just stay pretty to look at forever. Doh.

Also the Snowy Mtns National Park. Greenies stopped them grazing cattle in it. Stopped them burning off.= More damaging fires than ever.

We can have 'nature' or we can have civilization and the houses and people that go with it. Our type of civilization is not well suited to conditions here. So it's it or us. It's a big country. Would it be such an unthinkable thing that the relatively tiny proportion of populated areas be cleared of fire bomb eucalypts and planted with less volatile vegetation?? Sure it would change the 'Australianness' of the area, but then houses don't grow naturally here either. Right? The fires could be let rip at leisure through the other regions without people being expected to risk their lives to save houses built in wrong places, in tinder boxes.

We also need to rethink our 'architecture'. Some houses were alight when the trees weren't! Embers are getting into roofs and that just shouldn't happen.
 

People in bush areas aren't allowed to clear trees back more than a few metres from their houses any more! = The already burned out homes in Springwood and Winmalee... again! ...perhaps into the hundreds tonight.

The laws changed. The Greenie types changed them. ... and if only Greenie d***heads were indeed mythical!
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I wondered about that. Any pictures we've seen, the trees are all around the house/s. Greenies don't have much common sense if any at all.
The photos are frightening. I hope there is no loss of life this time.
 
One man is dead and others are injured.
Today Springwood High School is being evacuated.

October fires worry regional businesses

ABC Rural
By Sarina Locke



Posted 42 minutes ago


Map: Bilpin 2758

NSW is experiencing a dangerous start to the bushfire season, with one man killed and up to a hundred homes destroyed.


Nearly 100 fires are still burning across the state, whipped up yesterday by ferocious winds and high temperatures.
A 63-year-old man died protecting his home near Wyong, north of Sydney, and at least four people are being treated for burns.
There are still 98 fires burning across the state, covering 86,000 hectares, mostly in the Blue Mountains, Lithgow, Central and South Coast and Southern Highlands regions.
Yesterday has been described as the worst day of fires in over a decade.


In the Blue Mountains, at Bilpin, the threat arrived late yesterday. It's an area rich in apple orchards.
"Horrendous... a terrible day to be in," said apple grower Simon Tadrosse. What worries him is the season ahead, given it's only mid-spring. "Temperatures we've been getting now are way, way higher than we've ever had in the past."

His partner, Margaret Tadrosse, volunteers with the fire services and says severe fires in October are surprising. "We've had many fires through here I've been here 30 years, not with this intensity, and nothing this early."

More here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-18/fire-impact-and-preparation/5031324
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And here: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/rf...shfire-aftermath/story-fnii5s3y-1226742337608

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/rf...shfire-aftermath/story-fnii5s3y-1226742337608
 

Fern said:
I wondered about that. Any pictures we've seen, the trees are all around the house/s. Greenies don't have much common sense if any at all. ........snip...
.
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As example of the insanity of it: One property owner, a few years ago, allowed logic to overrule his fear of authority and took the dozer to trees around his house despite being denied permission to do so. He cleared it and left the ground bare and was duly hit with $100,000 fine.

When the fires came through his was the only house in the area left standing.

But the fine still stood! He was fighting them in court over it but I lost track of how that went.
It was an expensive point to prove, either way, but he did prove it.

Looking at the burnt out houses now on TV with the trees still standing around them. The trees still have leaves on them, dead leaves, but still on the trees. The fire fed on the fumes and just charred the trees and kept going. That's how gum trees survive. The gas causes a short intense burst of flame which starves itself of oxygen and keeps moving on leaving the tree charred but usually not continuing to burn. But the houses are rubble and ash. They aren't built that way. It burns slower and longer in houses.


The TV coverage is indulging in disaster porn now, showing the ruins and playing the same bits over and over and feeding on the victim's stories.

One interview was indicative of the speed it hit at though. The family was prepared for a quick exit. They had clothes, photos, laptops, receipts etc all stacked near the door ready to go at short notice. They only had time to grab what they could carry, get to the car and leave with the fire behind them. There wasn't time to get back into the house to pick up the rest of the 'treasures'. They lost the lot, same as almost everyone else in that street who thought they had plenty of time as it was still streets away.

Something else I've noticed. Some completely gutted and collapsed houses are still surrounded by their gardens which look quite untouched.
A dear neat little path with trimmed box hedges either side leads right up to where the front door was. Why didn't the 'foreign' plants burn??
How smart are we on insisting on being 'environmentally friendly' and growing indigenous plants??

Grevilleas are a lovely thing to grow for the birds to feed on but ever watch a Grevillea leaf burn, up close?. I used to entertain myself for hours with the ones I swept up from under that Silky Oak (which isn't an Oak, it's a very big species of Grevillea) when I was a kid. Couldn't wait until burn off time just to watch those leaves do their thing.
Put dead one on a small fire, it wont curl up and go black like normal leaves, it will turn incandescent, like a neon bright fiery ghost of itself and then vanish in black ash. All over in seconds.
Not sure how fast the green ones burn but if you grow them make sure you sweep up those dead leaves.One of them is pretty, a pile of them doing that is not a good thing to happen next to the house, or worse, in the roof gutter.
Let's just grow lots of Grevilleas for the birds in patches well away from houses eh?


We're getting better at bushfires though. People are getting the message to leave when they're told and learning that unless a house is already set up to resist embers with roof sprinklers, and have no mulch built up against the walls then standing there with a garden hose to fight a bush fire is p*ssing into the hurricane.

Only one fatality, poor man had a heart attack trying to save his garden shed with buckets of water.
But it was a better result than many fires have had. Only 2 firemen injured so far too. May that low casualty rate continue. No amount of money could pay them what they're worth.
 
These fires were on our news today, scary scary pictures. I hope everyone who lives in those areas or who have loved ones there come out of the devastation unharmed.
 
Gum trees are notorious for 'dropping' branches in the heat of summer. I won't park my car under or near one let alone surround my house with them. I know the Kualas love them.:eek:
Government here bowed to pressure from the greenies so we also can get fined heavily if we cut down trees in areas that have been declared sacrosant.
 
TICA said:
These fires were on our news today, scary scary pictures. I hope everyone who lives in those areas or who have loved ones there come out of the devastation unharmed.
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I have a daughter in law and two grandsons who live in the Blue Mountains but their area has not been affected at this stage but there is a long hot summer ahead yet.

The latest fires have been characterised by loss of property rather than loss of life. We have learned important lessons from previous disasters. Fire is a natural consequence of this hot, dry continent, usually triggered by dry lightning but sadly also by careless smokers and occasionally by arsonists. People who live in fire prone areas are encouraged to have plans in place to protect their property and/or to abandon it and they are aided by volunteers and professional emergency workers. Government agencies are quick to react and public appeals are set up very quickly. The Salvation Army goes into action immediately, feeding evacuees and fire-fighters with the assistance of other community organisations.

With 30% of the fires area assessed for damage there are 81 homes confirmed as lost, many others badly damaged but it is expected that the number of houses lost will number in the hundreds. People are already planning to rebuild and claims have been lodged with the insurance companies.

These fires were characterised by their speed. We have had the hottest Winter on record and the driest. The amount of fuel on the ground is very high because our native vegetation adapts to drought by shedding bark, leaves and even branches. Without water to make it rot it only takes an ember carried by the wind to set it alight. The winds were very strong and hot two days ago. Today it is much cooler and calmer which gives the fire-fighters a chance to contain the fires but we expect hot conditions again tomorrow. It's not over yet.
 
It'll never be over Warri, we just have to adapt to it better and accept that "Give me a Home among the Gum Trees"* is an iconic dream that we can't afford to indulge.

While it's super sad to see family's homes and possessions, and sometimes loved ones, taken out by fires we have to wonder how long they expect the rest of the population to happily wear the ever increasing costs of home insurance to cover the losses incurred by those who live dangerously??

If you build a house on a riverbank odds are you can't get flood insurance. What about refusing, or at least putting a very high levee, on home insurance in fire prone areas too? I can't remember a year the Blue Mtns didn't have some fire drama and looking at the aerial shots taken last night blind Freddy could see why.

For geographical reasons the towns are built along ridges totally surrounded by bush just bustin' to burn. Looking down on them you can barely see the houses for yet more gum trees planted in the yards.
Many houses in towns like Winmalee, Mt Vic etc are situated like offerings placed on a funeral pyre, only waiting for a match aren't they? Up there on top of the ridge with all the fuel downhill of them waiting to funnel the fire up.

Bugger the 'clean air' and the views, I wouldn't live there for quids.

Not all bushfires happen there, or that way, which brings me round to the point of the ramble... sort of.

While watching The Drum last night I was presented with Jane Caro's somewhat hysterical take on the whole fire thing.
It's Climate Change!!! she shrieked. When will the idiots realise that?? We MUST have a carbon tax! WTF?? That woman needs therapy.

So what if it's climate change?? How the hell is a tax going to stop bush fires?? She, and the Greens, and other good intentionally motivated people are too focused on 'stopping' the unstoppable with other people's money instead of looking at the problem as it stands and putting their efforts into adapting our lifestyles to the changing conditions instead.

The Greens... don't like them much, is it noticeable?.... need to stop inflicting their own selfish need to 'live with nature' on others and apply it to reality.

We are a European/Western style society who's architecture and lifestyle reflect that origin. To live that way safely we need 'European' conditions.

We either change to living underground or 'Europeanise' or at least 'urbanise' the landscapes around settled areas. We can longer afford to have it both ways.

We need to put bare, or at least Eucalypt free, firebreaks for at least a kilometre around towns.
Councils need to make a 180 and ban any indigenous vegetation that grows over a metre high instead of encouraging it.
They need to stop fining people for cutting Roman Candle Gum trees down.

We have 3 million square miles for them to grow in. Those in desperate need of looking at one can leave town and find them anywhere out there, they don't need to live under one. Especially when their indulgence is paid for by not only higher insurance premiums to everyone else, but more importantly, by the risks and efforts that volunteer and regular fire fighters put into 'saving' them.

Let's face it, Gums are a really crap tree as trees rate.
They are a sentimental icon to we born here. The smell of them evokes fond memories and comforting emotions and a sense of Nationality. But really, with a few exceptions they're not good for timber, they're full of borers, they emit toxins into the soil so nothing much else can grow anywhere near them, they're too sparsely leaved to even make good shade!
Oh yes......and they are doing their level best to kill us!.

They drop branches on us if we sit under them, and burn us out of 'their' Country as often as they can find reason to explode.

Yeah, I know, I wasn't called a 'soulless pragmatist' for nuthin', but really those who are afraid of climate change should give a little thought to adaptation. Holding on to how things were in the past and trying to keep them that way won't solve anything. Time to HTFU folks.

[/rant of the day]


*This clip is from the Steve Irwin tribute, brings tears to the eyes of Aussies, but then, so does bush fire smoke. :devilish:


 
Diwundrin said:
Let's face it, Gums are a really crap tree as trees rate.
They are a sentimental icon to we born here. The smell of them evokes fond memories and comforting emotions and a sense of Nationality. But really, with a few exceptions they're not good for timber, they're full of borers, they emit toxins into the soil so nothing much else can grow anywhere near them, they're too sparsely leaved to even make good shade!
Oh yes......and they are doing their level best to kill us!.

They drop branches on us if we sit under them, and burn us out of 'their' Country as often as they can find reason to explode.
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:rofl: You forgot to mention that they harbour deadly drop bears just waiting to lacerate us when we walk underneath them.
 
Love the cricket match pics too and awed by the ominous sky above Sydney Uni. It looks like the apocalypse has arrived.

#17 is interesting in that the property seems to have had plenty of cleared space around it. For an average fire it would probably have been sufficient but conditions on Thursday were quite extreme.
 
Just clearing doesn't stop windblown embers getting in unfortunately, it needs to be a pretty comprehensive exercise all round to fire-proof a house. It also requires a good deal of luck judging by the pattern of which ones burn and which don't. The only thing in common is gum trees closer than a kilometre to them.

How's this for the vagaries of fortune? Hot enough to warp the steel fence just yards from the unsinged washing. Who'da thought to go and stand under the clothes line for 'protection?' (kidding)

Washing was spared, but a home was destroyed when fire swept through Emma Parade at Winmalee in New South Wales.
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Got 2 pics and can't delete on edit. Deduct it from my weekly stuff-up quota.
 

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Wildfires are so frightening, those photos are intense! We've been having a lot of wildfires here too in summer since there's been drought conditions. Scary when the sun is blocked out by smoke, experienced that just once by my house.

Some years back they had to shut off all the swamp coolers and windows in the warehouse where I was working, so too much smoke wouldn't come inside. Some employees were wearing face masks. They almost shut down the plant, but the next day there was a shift in the wind in our favor. Hoping everyone stays safe, those fires are too close for comfort. :(
 
Another few thousand are being warned to move out of the Blue Mountains area, they're expecting both of the worst fires to really gear up again today.
The way the weather and wind forecasts are looking, it's possible that by around Wednesday they could join up and form a massive long front that could take out many of the towns on the way down into the outer Sydney suburbs. Nothing much they can do about it, but fingers are crossed that scenario won't happen.

The State has declared emergency powers to authorise firefighters and Emergency Services to have police powers to order people out of dangerous areas. That's a better idea than letting idiots play Don Qixote until the last second and then expecting some volunteer to risk their life coming to rescue them.

There's only been one reported incident of looting so far. People have put signs out, 'Thieves about! white dual-cab ute with toolbox in the back' I wouldn't want to be driving one around there today, and the looters better hope the cops find them first. Unfortunately that describes the vast majority of working vehicles used by just about everyone.

Remember our new PM, that red budgie smuggler wearing 'poser' that everyone here laughed about using volunteering as a surf life-saver, and volunteer fireman just as campaign photo opportunities? Our he-man version of Putin?

Seems he did a 14 hour shift with his usual volunteer crew fighting the fires and not a single picture was taken and no one else, including the press, knew he was doing it until he finished his shift and went back to his job of running the joint.

Can't imagine why he did that. He's already won the election. No campaign for another 3 years. No pay, no pictures. Hey, he couldn't be the real deal could he?? Noooo surely not. He's a Right wing politician.
Wonder how many Greens Senators he met there?
 
Woke to the smell of smoke in my bedroom this morning, which for me is a real worry as I've had a couple or three fires in my kitchen over the years.
Sydney is covered in smokey haze today. We desperately need rain, and soon. Everything is just so dry ATM.

In my photo album I've posted a photo taken by my son in law yesterday showing the sun and the moon through the smoke.
And we are not very close. At least not close enough to be in any danger.
 
Remember our new PM, that red budgie smuggler wearing 'poser' that everyone here laughed about using volunteering as a surf life-saver, and volunteer fireman just as campaign photo opportunities? Our he-man version of Putin?

Seems he did a 14 hour shift with his usual volunteer crew fighting the fires and not a single picture was taken and no one else, including the press, knew he was doing it until he finished his shift and went back to his job of running the joint.
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The media is onto it and he will be on duty again next weekend.

[h=1]Volunteer Abbott in the hot seat[/h]Andrew Probyn,
The West AustralianOctober 21, 2013, 4:24 am





Tony Abbott returns from his firefighting shift of backburning near Bilpin.
Picture: Twitter/@TonyAbbottMHR






Tony Abbott swapped his white shirt and blue tie for fluoro overalls at the weekend to help his local fire brigade fight bushfires that have devastated parts of NSW. After returning home from Adelaide on Saturday, the Prime Minister reported for duty at the Warringah Davidson Rural Fire Service Brigade in Sydney where he has volunteered for 13 years.
A specialist breathing apparatus operator, chainsaw operator and tanker driver, Mr Abbott spent 14 hours on the ground conducting back-burns around Bilpin from 6pm Saturday until 8am yesterday. A spokesman for the PM said he had a couple of hours rest at home before returning to prime ministerial duties. It is understood Mr Abbott intends being on RFS stand-by next weekend.

Mr Abbott was deputy captain of the Warringah Davidson brigade until be became Liberal leader in December 2009.
The PM has vowed to continue volunteering his services with the RFS, sparking debate on how those charged with ensuring his safety - the Australian Federal Police - can do so in potentially risky circumstances.

Mr Abbott's brigade captain Trent Dowling has said the PM would not be kept out of harm's way simply because of his day job.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/19478344/volunteer-abbott-in-the-hot-seat/
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I sympathize Warri, the smoke must be choking, will be for a while too. Everything smelled of it for weeks after the 90's fires too.

There was a whiff of smoke up here yesterday. It was a rare overcast morning with no wind so the local fireys were probably making the most of it and doing a burn nearby. It was only for about an hour so they got it done and out okay. Although it could have been the Kooris doing another 'tidy up'.

Great photo.
 
The smoke is not a problem for me but three of my grand children are asthmatics but now that they are adults it doesn't seem to be as bad. It will be a problem for a lot of children though and also for elderly with emphysema and other breathing problems.
 
That article about sums it up Rky. It went better than expected today, the weather gurus were wrong in a good way, much less windy than expected. Hope they're wrong about Wednesday too, predicting 35C and 50+kph winds.

They've caught a few kids who lit the ones North of Newcastle, one 11 the rest around 14. I really don't know what you can do about morons of any age.

There's a rumour that a Blue Mtns one was started by the army playing games in the scrub but... ??
 
Interesting article Rkunsaw with interesting comments below it.

Today (day 5) they are adopting the high risk policy of starting fires to link the two main ones under today's cooler conditions to avoid it happening tomorrow under worse ones. It all depends on the winds as to whether it will be controllable.

No-one is talking about the possibility that the army started the biggest fire west of Sydney. It's much easier to froth over the actions of some young boys in the Hunter region to the north. The fires to the south are not thought to be arson at this stage and are either accident, cigarettes or spontaneous. There are many more fires across the state, some uncontrolled, that were started by dry lightning but where they don't threaten property they are just allowed to burn. Given enough time, property is protected by back burning but the Blue Mountains fires have just been too fast moving for all the properties to be saved.
 

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