Passenger dragged off Plane

The number of passengers on a plane is often dictated by the amount of freight it's carrying.

In the "good old days" it was not unknown for an extra passenger to be offered the jump seat on the flight deck but Islamic terrorism has ruled that out.

In the REALLY good old USSR days it was not unknown in the case of Aeroflot to be told to sit on the floor of an overcrowded plane with ones back to the bulkhead. Or the lavatory.
 

United Airlines definitely needs to get better at picking battles, a couple of weeks ago it was in the news for tossing two young girls off the plane for wearing leggings, a violation of an employee dress code and now for dragging a paying customer off of the plane. Then you add on a recent computer glitch. It seems like the company is running Oscar Muñoz instead of the other way around.
 
Don M. said:
United Airlines...and its stockholders...is paying a huge price for this stupidity. As of this morning, UA stock has lost almost 950 million dollars in value. That should be a huge wake up call to these airlines, and their treatment of passengers. Flying used to be a fairly pleasant way to travel, and the passenger amenities were great. Anymore, the airlines are more concerned with shoving as many people as possible on-board, and about the Only thing they don't charge extra for is a cup of water. Hopefully, this incident will remind the Corporate Big Whigs that the consumer/passenger deserves a bit more than a "seat"....and it would be better to have a few seats unoccupied than to "overbook".
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You would think so, wouldn't you? However, airlines do not have that type of mentality. It's all about the bottom line and having 100% occupancy, just like hotels yearn for. At United, we even have an additional charge for seats that give the passenger extra leg room. If you want to see an airline that charges for everything and I do mean everything. Just look at Allegiant. They even go so far as to charge for carry-on bags and to buy a drink, like a soda or coffee.

However, all in all, today's airfares are still a good deal and when passengers take advantage of sales, it's even better.
 

Don M. said:
United Airlines...and its stockholders...is paying a huge price for this stupidity. As of this morning, UA stock has lost almost 950 million dollars in value. That should be a huge wake up call to these airlines, and their treatment of passengers. Flying used to be a fairly pleasant way to travel, and the passenger amenities were great. Anymore, the airlines are more concerned with shoving as many people as possible onboard, and about the Only thing they don't charge extra for is a cup of water. Hopefully, this incident will remind the Corporate Big Whigs that the consumer/passenger deserves a bit more than a "seat"....and it would be better to have a few seats unoccupied than to "overbook".
Click to expand...

The latest quite shows UAL down -.20 per share.
 
Aunt Bea said:
United Airlines definitely needs to get better at picking battles, a couple of weeks ago it was in the news for tossing two young girls off the plane for wearing leggings, a violation of an employee dress code and now for dragging a paying customer off of the plane. Then you add on a recent computer glitch. It seems like the company is running Oscar Muñoz instead of the other way around.
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All that bad news and United is still number 1 or 2 in the business. Delta and United keep changing the number 1 and 2 spots. Looking at domestic sales only. It's tough to keep ahead of the foreign airlines due to all of the controls placed on domestic air carriers.
 
oldman said:
All that bad news and United is still number 1 or 2 in the business. Delta and United keep changing the number 1 and 2 spots. Looking at domestic sales only. It's tough to keep ahead of the foreign airlines due to all of the controls placed on domestic air carriers.
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So when you are number one you don't need to worry about the people that put you there.
 
Watching the video of the dragging looked so barbaric. ... I just couldn't believe that was happening in our country. They really need to rethink their business practices, and I'm betting they will do something different now. That video had to strike a nerve..
 
There must be some rich people in this world. They asked for volunteers with $400 pass ans accommodations. No takers so they upped it to $800 and no takers. I once gave a seat voluntarily 3 times and got $1200 and took my wife on a trip.
 
OK, here's another air travel horror story, which happened to me.

A few years ago, I was flying alone from CA to MD on Southwest Airlines. No nonstop flights available, one short layover at Midway Airport in Chicago. That was fine with me, we were supposed to arrive at Midway late in the afternoon, and be back home in MD by early evening.

Due to an emergency (a small fire) in the control tower at Midway, my first flight was not allowed to land, and we had to be rerouted to Milwaukee. We landed there, were told that the fire was out and it was OK to return to Midway, which we did. But the delay meant that we got to Midway at 8 PM, too late for any connecting flights. No hotel rooms were available in the whole city of Chicago (or so they said at the airport!) because it was a special weekend, with a Taste of Chicago event going on. Southwest refused to even try to find another airline.

The airport set up cots, and that is where we spent the night, on canvas cots a few feet from each other in the main concourse. But wait, it gets worse. All the food concessions closed down at 8:00 so there was no place to get anything to eat. And something was wrong with the sound system, so all night, every 20 minutes, a loud security announcement was blasted saying that if you were not an employee or there to get on a flight, you had to leave the airport by midnight! This announcement went on all night long. (Did they expect a terrorist to say, "Oh, OK then," and leave the airport because of that announcement?)

At 4 AM a guard came through, with the demeanor of a prison guard, an alarm was sounded and all of us who were trying to get some sleep (about 30 people) had to get up and go sit somewhere else, as they had to clear the concourse for early passengers who would be coming though soon. No food concessions were open yet, of course. So we were wandering around like zombies for an hour or so, until we finally found a concession selling some coffee.

Fortunately, I was able to get on a plane that left around 8 AM, so I landed in MD around 9:00.

So... how many things were wrong with this experience?
 
Wow Sunny! I have to wonder if you've flown since then. I think that might have turned me off for good! Did they at lest give all of you some vouchers? I think they should have brought in pizza and beers for everyone over 21 that night. :)
 
Airlines are economic monsters. I was flying out of Syracuse,it may have been United. We were all boarded the door had been close and the walk retracted. We sat and sat, outside a ground crew and service truck were scurrying around. 30 minutes late we taxied towards the runway only to sit for a while longer. Finally we got going and took off.I had on the plane to tower headphones,there was a serious argument going on about speed and altitude.The tower wanted something but the pilot was resisting. The intercom was shut down mid discussion.

When we got airborn it was obvious that the plane was broken. Everytime a control surface moved in the right wing there was a hell of a grinding noise and the whole plane shuddered.


I was transferring in Detroit and the plane was going on to I think Phoenix. Just before the plane started shaking it self to the ground in Detroit the announcement was made that all passengers would be getting off in Detroit and for through passenger to see the ticket agent immediately.

That freakin plane was going to kill us,yet some bean counter chose to endanger all of us and his employees, to keep from flying an empty plane to a mainantence facility.
 
Nothing, even remotely related, happened on the "Greyhound" bus I took when I traveled around the U.S.A.
Always had a front seat and thoroughly enjoyed the spectacular scenery.
 
Why do Americans put up with this practice?
Warrigal: Another good example of "stirring"?
But also an excellent example of "free speech"
in Australia!!!
 
Aunt Bea said:
So when you are number one you don't need to worry about the people that put you there.
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Of course they do. Keep in mind that no one at United took this person off of the aircraft. Local law enforcement is always called and they do what they have to in order to forcibly remove a passenger. Local law enforcement has their own protocol for removing passengers. United did not say to go into the plane and drag that man out of here. They (police) make their own rules and once they have been called, all United employees can do is to standby and wait until they have completed the task of removing the passenger. I am sure that he was told that if he did not leave peaceably that he would be removed using whatever the police had to do. If I was a passenger and 2 or 3 big guys walked up to me and told me to leave the plane, why wouldn't I comply and fight the good fight later. Heck, I'm 6'4" and I would still rather walk off the plane than to be dragged off.

I am sure that when the gate agent called for local law enforcement to remove the passenger, they did not even consider that this person was going to take it to the extreme that he did. United will suffer the consequences, even though they had no part in removing the passenger, other than to call for police help.
 
Robusta said:
Airlines are economic monsters. I was flying out of Syracuse,it may have been United. We were all boarded the door had been close and the walk retracted. We sat and sat, outside a ground crew and service truck were scurrying around. 30 minutes late we taxied towards the runway only to sit for a while longer. Finally we got going and took off.I had on the plane to tower headphones,there was a serious argument going on about speed and altitude.The tower wanted something but the pilot was resisting. The intercom was shut down mid discussion.

When we got airborn it was obvious that the plane was broken. Every time a control surface moved in the right wing there was a hell of a grinding noise and the whole plane shuddered.


I was transferring in Detroit and the plane was going on to I think Phoenix. Just before the plane started shaking it self to the ground in Detroit the announcement was made that all passengers would be getting off in Detroit and for through passenger to see the ticket agent immediately.

That freakin plane was going to kill us,yet some bean counter chose to endanger all of us and his employees, to keep from flying an empty plane to a mainantence facility.
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I don't understand what you mean by "control surface." Are you talking about the flaps or ailerons? As for the ATC and the pilot arguing about speed and altitude, again, I am not sure what you are referring to. Are you talking about your flight or one that is already airborn? The flight that you are on is the same for all flights. Every airliner in the sky has filed a flight plan. Within that flight plan, the speed and altitude is already listed. If the pilot wants to change his altitude or speed once he is airborn, that is his prerogative to do do, so long as the ATC is acceptable to it. If an argument was because the pilot wanted to go faster than his flight plan called for, he must have ATC approval. Spacing is very important with so many planes in the air, especially around busy airports.

In my 34 years of flying, I only ever had two conversations with ATC's that went south. On one flight, we were flying from out west and coming to the east coast non stop. We were at 36,000 ft. and the air was terrible. We had a lot of very uncomfortable turbulence. (At that time, I thought that we may have been caught in the jet stream.) I always tried to find good air, if there is any to be had. I asked the ATC if any other pilot had found smooth air in my area. He said there was some pretty smooth air at 39,000 ft. I asked if I could climb and he said not at that time, but I would be able to do so in just a few minutes. I waited five minutes and I asked him again and he came back to me being very belligerent. I told him to let me know and I wouldn't "bother" him again. I filed a complaint after I landed and did receive an apology, so it did end well.
 
Sunny said:
OK, here's another air travel horror story, which happened to me.

A few years ago, I was flying alone from CA to MD on Southwest Airlines. No nonstop flights available, one short layover at Midway Airport in Chicago. That was fine with me, we were supposed to arrive at Midway late in the afternoon, and be back home in MD by early evening.

Due to an emergency (a small fire) in the control tower at Midway, my first flight was not allowed to land, and we had to be rerouted to Milwaukee. We landed there, were told that the fire was out and it was OK to return to Midway, which we did. But the delay meant that we got to Midway at 8 PM, too late for any connecting flights. No hotel rooms were available in the whole city of Chicago (or so they said at the airport!) because it was a special weekend, with a Taste of Chicago event going on. Southwest refused to even try to find another airline.

The airport set up cots, and that is where we spent the night, on canvas cots a few feet from each other in the main concourse. But wait, it gets worse. All the food concessions closed down at 8:00 so there was no place to get anything to eat. And something was wrong with the sound system, so all night, every 20 minutes, a loud security announcement was blasted saying that if you were not an employee or there to get on a flight, you had to leave the airport by midnight! This announcement went on all night long. (Did they expect a terrorist to say, "Oh, OK then," and leave the airport because of that announcement?)

At 4 AM a guard came through, with the demeanor of a prison guard, an alarm was sounded and all of us who were trying to get some sleep (about 30 people) had to get up and go sit somewhere else, as they had to clear the concourse for early passengers who would be coming though soon. No food concessions were open yet, of course. So we were wandering around like zombies for an hour or so, until we finally found a concession selling some coffee.

Fortunately, I was able to get on a plane that left around 8 AM, so I landed in MD around 9:00.

So... how many things were wrong with this experience?
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I have to admit, your experience is about as bad it can get. However, Southwest is a very good airline. Low fares and no charge for the first two checked bags. They do have a lot of non stop flights, but the only thing that I never understood with Southwest was their boarding process and why they never have offered food for sale. Some of SW pilots have told me that they also do not like their boarding process, but it works, so it's what they are going to keep doing. As for not being able to purchase food, I guess that they just don't want to bother with the mess because they have to turn their flights around very quickly after arriving for the next flight, which may be in as little as 20 minutes later.

I travel for free on United. But, even though I have free travel, my trips are always on standby. If I can't get on the flight that I want, I do get the next available seat on the next flight going to the same destination. This is why when I want to, say go to Chicago, I always make certain there is another flight soon after the one that I had originally wanted to be on. I have only been bumped once, so I can't complain.

BTW, I would have been very skeptical of the fact that no hotels had availability in any city the size of Chicago.
 
oldman said:
Of course they do. Keep in mind that no one at United took this person off of the aircraft. Local law enforcement is always called and they do what they have to in order to forcibly remove a passenger. Local law enforcement has their own protocol for removing passengers. United did not say to go into the plane and drag that man out of here. They (police) make their own rules and once they have been called, all United employees can do is to standby and wait until they have completed the task of removing the passenger. I am sure that he was told that if he did not leave peaceably that he would be removed using whatever the police had to do. If I was a passenger and 2 or 3 big guys walked up to me and told me to leave the plane, why wouldn't I comply and fight the good fight later. Heck, I'm 6'4" and I would still rather walk off the plane than to be dragged off.

I am sure that when the gate agent called for local law enforcement to remove the passenger, they did not even consider that this person was going to take it to the extreme that he did. United will suffer the consequences, even though they had no part in removing the passenger, other than to call for police help.
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Your loyalty to United is admirable but you will never convince me that United was right and that this should be considered business as usual.

Fly the friendly skies!
 
Aunt Bea said:
Your loyalty to United is admirable but you will never convince me that United was right and that this should be considered business as usual.

Fly the friendly skies!
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Oldman, I will also laud your loyalty to the entity that provided your livelihood.

I am not a pilot, the only thing that I know about aircraft is that I avoid them like the plague.

I do take exception that you may be accusing me of lying.

Fact, I was seated on a plane that was delayed while a service truck on crew performed some function that does not normally happen.

We did go to the end of the Taxi way and were delayed again. Syracuse is not a busy airport so waiting for traffic probably was not the cause

Fact, I had on earphones, Fact They were tuned to the ATC airplane channel

Fact: ATC was saying on thing about heading speed and altitude plane was saying something else.

Fact: Discussion was contentious and heated

Fact: intercom was turned off abruptly and with no explanation

Fact: I wouldn't know an aileron from a steering wheel

Fact: Some part of the plane having to do with the right wing was broken

Fact: Airliners do not grind shudder and shake while performing normal manuveurs

Fact: This one did

Fact: This plane was supposed to go on to a further destination

Fact: All passengers were deplaned in Detroit.

Fact: Thru passengers were instructed to report to the ticket agent.

Fact: While not a million mile flier,I have flown enough times to know that the occurrences on this particular flight were not normal and routine.
Fact: While I do not consider myself a genius, I am smart enough mechanically inclined enough, and possess enough life experience to know when a machine, no matter how complicated, displays shuddering, the sound of metal grinding on metal, and violent vibration, something is wrong.


Without knowing me and with out you being on this particular flight, how dare you cast aspersions on my narrative.
 
No vouchers, not even an apology from anyone. And yes, I have flown since then, and nothing like that ever happened. I try to avoid connecting flights at Midway, and in general always try to find a nonstop whenever possible.
 
Aunt Bea said:
Your loyalty to United is admirable but you will never convince me that United was right and that this should be considered business as usual.

Fly the friendly skies!
Click to expand...

OK, but please keep in mind what I wrote previously, United's gate agent calls security. They (security) are not employed by United, but are usually local law enforcement, including State Police or Highway Patrol. Those people have their own protocol as to how they should remove a passenger that has been requested to leave the plane, but refuses to do so. I am sure that if that person that was removed had been proven to be a terrorist, no one would have objected at all as to what type of treatment he/she had received. If someone is to be removed and they fail to comply, the police are not going to walk away. So, what are their options? Should they attempt to bribe them with candy? Of course, I am being facetious, but I would imagine that he was offered a travel voucher good towards a future United flight, plus a seat on the next flight to his/her destination. It would be to United's credit if they would have tried to settle the matter peacefully.

Each of us are responsible for our actions. If we choose to buck the system or fail to comply with a police officer's demand, only bad things will happen. Like the old saying goes, "When we choose our actions, we also choose our consequences." (Author unknown.) It's not a matter of loyalty, although I am because United has always done right by me (for the most part), but it's about doing what's right. I am not saying this person should not stand by his/her convictions, but there are times when it pays to capitulate and take the high road. I would rather walk off the plane, rather then be drug down the aisle. I can take care of the matter later and still have all of my own teeth. Like many others on this board, I have seen the police in action. They do not hesitate to bring matters to an end very quickly.

BTW, I have really enjoyed debating this issue at an adult level. This thread has restored my faith in humanity to be able to discuss and debate issues without making things personal. I have appreciated all of the thought-out posts and staying with the issue.

Thanks to all of the posters here on this thread.
 
"Without knowing me and with out you being on this particular flight, how dare you cast aspersions on my narrative."

That wasn't my intent at all. I was just very confused about your post and could not comment on what the problems with the aircraft may have been. I try to educate people about airplanes and how the airline industry works. Most people appreciate the information that I send out. I have found out over the years that when people understand how we in the airline business operate and how planes operate, they feel more comfortable when flying.

The airline business is not a perfect model, but we try to make the best with what we are given. For me, keeping my passengers safe was always priority number one. After that came comfort. When pilots speak to passengers slow and calm over the intercom during trying times, such as rough turbulence or some noise that is unusual, people become calmer. Think back when you heard that unfamiliar noise (grinding) and I would have come over the intercom and spoke in a rushed voice and would have said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, I am sorry for the noise that you are hearing. Something is amiss and I have no idea what it is. I will be back with you later, if I figure it out. In the meantime, please pray for our safety." Now, how would that have gone down?

I apologize for you taking my post personal.
 
IMO, United was wrong, wrong, wrong. 4 staff needed seats, 3 got them it was down to one. They should have put that one staff member on another flight or upped the prize.

On the other hand, the passenger should have walked off the plane and seen his attorney later. That he laid there, quite stupidly, allowing himself to be dragged by the staff and police tells me he was already building his law suit from the very beginning.
 

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