Persistence with a personal lost cause

V

Victor

Senior Member
Location
midwest USA
I am reading a book A Partial History of Lost Causes in which the fictional
character asks how does one persist (go on trying) for a dream or goal which is
impossible to achieve. When you know you will lose but you either do
not give up or else resign yourself that it is a lost cause--no chance of getting
your goal. Examples are a terminal illness, serious unrequited love, job or position that your can't get, no matter what,or a trophy, etc. Or maybe just survival. The cliché to follow your dreams may be very disappointing.

Have you experienced this dilemma? What kept you going.
 

Not really, but I think it is silly and unrealistic to keep on pursuing something you KNOW you can never have -- like if I suddenly decided I wanted a career as a ballet dancer, for instance.

I think common sense should set in and tell us when to quit instead of wasting our lives trying to get something that is truly impossible.
 
Victor said:
I am reading a book A Partial History of Lost Causes in which the fictional
character asks how does one persist (go on trying) for a dream or goal which is
impossible to achieve. When you know you will lose but you either do
not give up or else resign yourself that it is a lost cause--no chance of getting
your goal. Examples are a terminal illness, serious unrequited love, job or position that your can't get, no matter what,or a trophy, etc. Or maybe just survival. The cliché to follow your dreams may be very disappointing.

Have you experienced this dilemma? What kept you going.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to be critical right away, but the words you use and the attitude and beliefs attached to them imply defeat before you even start. Who says you can't beat cancer. Many do. Unrequited love? I've seen that turn around too. Sometimes jobs can come through contacts. Winning an event or a trophy? Would you say a man born without legs had no hope of winning an Olympic marathon? What about Oscar Pistorius?
Survial to me means tackling life one step at a time and rejoicing over every step forward taken, while any steps backward are seen as temporary setbacks and not defeat. The word impossible is one I try never to use. Says who anyway? Right?
 

Well as it often said I am the most stubborn person on this planet. In my late thirties it was discovered that I had a cluster of small tumours on the base of my spine. To cut a very long story short I was in a wheel chair for five years and then crutches for eleven years. They had told me that I would never walk again, but I did. In my early sixties I joined a Dance Studio ( dance is my passion) and I went for all of my Latin Dance medals. I got higher marks that the young ones and got Distinctions. Plus I did all this in four inch heels.

When the medical profession told me that I wouldn't live to see my grandchildren I said two words which I will not repeat here but F you is close enough.:oops: I never went back to them again, and I still haven't. I have an eighteen year old Granddaughter plus many other younger ones, You never know what your mind can achieve if you let go of the reigns and let it gallop.
 
Cat, your story is awe inspiring.... your persistence is so admirable and I'm glad your stubbornness paid off for you in a such big way. We should all be so stubborn. :thumbsup:
 
Thanks Cookie, it can get me into trouble but hey what's life if it doesn't have it's :darth:moments. My husband used to come and video tape the routines so I could practice more at home. In one of them I was being shown by the Instructor a particularly difficult set of steps and as I watched the video I saw three young girls taking the &%$% out of me and pretending to walk with a walking stick. My first reaction was anger and then I thought, 'right young ladies, watch this space.' So when I passed with Distinctions they were not happy girls at all. I very sweetly went up to them, and said' if you keep practising, you'll get the hang of it'. Was that a nice thing for me to do, no, but I'd do the same again.
 
Catraoine said:
Well as it often said I am the most stubborn person on this planet. In my late thirties it was discovered that I had a cluster of small tumours on the base of my spine. To cut a very long story short I was in a wheel chair for five years and then crutches for eleven years. They had told me that I would never walk again, but I did. In my early sixties I joined a Dance Studio ( dance is my passion) and I went for all of my Latin Dance medals. I got higher marks that the young ones and got Distinctions. Plus I did all this in four inch heels.

When the medical profession told me that I wouldn't live to see my grandchildren I said two words which I will not repeat here but F you is close enough.:oops: I never went back to them again, and I still haven't. I have an eighteen year old Granddaughter plus many other younger ones, You never know what your mind can achieve if you let go of the reigns and let it gallop.
Click to expand...

Good for you!!
 
Wow Catraoine, I'll have to read your initial post to my husband tomorrow. It should encourage him although he seems to already have the same attitude you do. In the last 3 years he's been through prostate cancer, hernia surgery and then in less than 2 weeks surgery for a large tumor going from his navel to his spine and also a tumor on one of his kidneys. What I marvel at is how cheerful and optimistic he remains. I've noticed how sad and quiet most people are in the Dr's waiting rooms. He is cheerful and gets people to talking and smiling. He's cheerful to everyone he comes into contact with in the doctor's offices and clinics. I wish I were more like him in that way. I really don't know at this time that his health is a lost cause but I hope not. Today he drove about 60 miles to pick up medication for a sick neighbor, he also told her he would weed eat her yard for her, he's always doing things for other people even though he is having a hard time as it is. I did put the kibosh on him weed eating for her so he found someone else who agreed to do it. But to answer the OPs question, I don't know. I guess it's just a mental thing. Some people aren't quitters and if they think they can do something or overcome an obstacle they just don't see the STOP sign that the rest of us do.
 
I also admire your determination Catraoine, and experts are often wrong about their predictions of sorry endings, and yet for every story of ultimate success in the face of terrible odds there are many many stories of individuals who strive mightily and achieve no success whatsoever. In the example of cancer in the elderly we often hear about cases in which the sick individual demands to repeatedly undergo dreadfully painful life degrading radiation and chemotherapy treatments and is rewarded for his/her efforts with perhaps six additional months of shear misery not to mention millions of dollars in medical expenses. Doctors get paid lots of money for encouraging patients to ask for treatments which have little likelihood of success. An obscene percentage of the public money spent on health care in this country is devoted to this end of life prolongation which doesn't increase the patient's quality of life but certainly enriches the people in the health care establishment. To paraphrase Ecclesiastes; To everything there is a season . . . a time to be born and a time to die.
 
A very inspiring story worthy of a senior magazine article.

However, for the sake of discussion, my question assumes that
your dream is really impossible, not almost impossible. It is impossible for me
to marry Nicole Kidman or even someone who wants nothing
to do with me, no matter what I do. Believe me.
It is impossible for a nobody to become president of Russia today
 
After reading your initial post, I thought of leaders like Gandhi and Martin Luther King who worked to free people against enormous odds, and everyday people who face uphill battles, and prisoners of war who have no idea if or when they will ever be released. It's important for all of us to take life one day at a time. We don't know what tomorrow will bring, or even whether we will see tomorrow. My favorite Bible passage is from Hebrews 11 and 12, where the writer reminds the readers about Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, and Moses, "These all died in faith, not having received what was promised, but having seen it and greeted it from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.... Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight ... and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us...."
 
Linda said:
Wow Catraoine, I'll have to read your initial post to my husband tomorrow. It should encourage him although he seems to already have the same attitude you do. In the last 3 years he's been through prostate cancer, hernia surgery and then in less than 2 weeks surgery for a large tumor going from his navel to his spine and also a tumor on one of his kidneys. What I marvel at is how cheerful and optimistic he remains. I've noticed how sad and quiet most people are in the Dr's waiting rooms. He is cheerful and gets people to talking and smiling. He's cheerful to everyone he comes into contact with in the doctor's offices and clinics. I wish I were more like him in that way. I really don't know at this time that his health is a lost cause but I hope not. Today he drove about 60 miles to pick up medication for a sick neighbor, he also told her he would weed eat her yard for her, he's always doing things for other people even though he is having a hard time as it is. I did put the kibosh on him weed eating for her so he found someone else who agreed to do it. But to answer the OPs question, I don't know. I guess it's just a mental thing. Some people aren't quitters and if they think they can do something or overcome an obstacle they just don't see the STOP sign that the rest of us do.
Click to expand...


My thought is that if we stop living the moment we are told we might die then we will. Of course I have down days but not because of my Chronic pain, but because like everyone else I have down days for no particular reason. I run a Support Group where I live for people living with Chronic Pain, that includes their partners and families as they too live with Chronic Pain, knowing you are normal in your reactions to it means that none of us are alone. I also think that if we have a great deal to live for that can really push us to just 'live'.

I have spent some years working with young mothers who were terminally ill. Wow, what a learning curve that was , I made some amazing friends and learned more about living than about dying. I think your husband is a rare gem..
 
Josiah09 said:
I also admire your determination Catraoine, and experts are often wrong about their predictions of sorry endings, and yet for every story of ultimate success in the face of terrible odds there are many many stories of individuals who strive mightily and achieve no success whatsoever. In the example of cancer in the elderly we often hear about cases in which the sick individual demands to repeatedly undergo dreadfully painful life degrading radiation and chemotherapy treatments and is rewarded for his/her efforts with perhaps six additional months of shear misery not to mention millions of dollars in medical expenses. Doctors get paid lots of money for encouraging patients to ask for treatments which have little likelihood of success. An obscene percentage of the public money spent on health care in this country is devoted to this end of life prolongation which doesn't increase the patient's quality of life but certainly enriches the people in the health care establishment. To paraphrase Ecclesiastes; To everything there is a season . . . a time to be born and a time to die.
Click to expand...


Thank you Joshua and I certainly agree with you. Neither my husband or I wish for that and we both have 'Living Wills' to protect ourselves from 'being kept alive'. I have always said that I might not have had a say about coming into this world, but I am going to do all that I can to have a say about how I leave it.
 
Catraoine said:
Well as it often said I am the most stubborn person on this planet. In my late thirties it was discovered that I had a cluster of small tumours on the base of my spine. To cut a very long story short I was in a wheel chair for five years and then crutches for eleven years. They had told me that I would never walk again, but I did. In my early sixties I joined a Dance Studio ( dance is my passion) and I went for all of my Latin Dance medals. I got higher marks that the young ones and got Distinctions. Plus I did all this in four inch heels.



When the medical profession told me that I wouldn't live to see my grandchildren I said two words which I will not repeat here but F you is close enough.:oops: I never went back to them again, and I still haven't. I have an eighteen year old Granddaughter plus many other younger ones, You never know what your mind can achieve if you let go of the reigns and let it gallop.
Click to expand...

WOW! Good for you, Cat! Your story is really inspiring!
 
Josiah09 said:
I also admire your determination Catraoine, and experts are often wrong about their predictions of sorry endings, and yet for every story of ultimate success in the face of terrible odds there are many many stories of individuals who strive mightily and achieve no success whatsoever. In the example of cancer in the elderly we often hear about cases in which the sick individual demands to repeatedly undergo dreadfully painful life degrading radiation and chemotherapy treatments and is rewarded for his/her efforts with perhaps six additional months of shear misery not to mention millions of dollars in medical expenses. Doctors get paid lots of money for encouraging patients to ask for treatments which have little likelihood of success. An obscene percentage of the public money spent on health care in this country is devoted to this end of life prolongation which doesn't increase the patient's quality of life but certainly enriches the people in the health care establishment. To paraphrase Ecclesiastes; To everything there is a season . . . a time to be born and a time to die.
Click to expand...
Cat, you are truly an amazing woman. Thank you for sharing your inspiring story.
Josiah, I wonder though....when or do you say "This is enough". When do you decide it is hopeless? Do you allow the treatments and care that prolongs life to just go on? How many are brave enough to admit it is hopeless and just stop everything?
Personally, my life has been extended several times, and I question why. Just what is my purpose in life? I have had three heart surgeries in the last year, have other issues that require too much medication. Too many MD visits. Live with chronic pain. Feel guilty about the amount of money that medicare spends to keep me alive...even though my MD's try to assure me that I earned the right to the care ??? Even though I enjoy every extra day that I am given, cannot help think...for what purpose?
I remember, when working, having to force feed patients, who were in a vegetative state. The ethical dilemma. Do I have the right to give this patient nourishment, through a feeding tube, to keep them alive? Yet, do I have the right to even think of with holding a life sustaining substance. Deciding who is to live..a right that only belongs to a supreme being.
 
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Victor said:
A very inspiring story worthy of a senior magazine article.

However, for the sake of discussion, my question assumes that
your dream is really impossible, not almost impossible. It is impossible for me
to marry Nicole Kidman or even someone who wants nothing
to do with me, no matter what I do. Believe me.
It is impossible for a nobody to become president of Russia today
Click to expand...


I think it more about wanting to do something and being told you can't. I don't want to be the President of Russia, I don't want to fly to the moon, I don't want to do a lot of things. But when there are things that we want to achieve then I say don't listen to those that simply say you can't and to those that do say that, I ask them' why not'?
 
Catraoine said:
I think it more about wanting to do something and being told you can't. I don't want to be the President of Russia, I don't want to fly to the moon, I don't want to do a lot of things. But when there are things that we want to achieve then I say don't listen to those that simply say you can't and to those that do say that, I ask them' why not'?
Click to expand...


:thumbsup1:
 
ndynt said:
Cat, you are truly an amazing woman. Thank you for sharing your inspiring story.
Josiah, I wonder though....when or do you say "This is enough". When do you decide it is hopeless? Do you allow the treatments and care that prolongs life to just go on? How many are brave enough to admit it is hopeless and just stop everything?
Personally, my life has been extended several times, and I question why. Just what is my purpose in life? I have had three heart surgeries in the last year, have other issues that require too much medication. Too many MD visits. Live with chronic pain. Feel guilty about the amount of money that medicare spends to keep me alive...even though my MD's try to assure me that I earned the right to the care ??? Even though I enjoy every extra day that I am given, cannot help think...for what purpose?
I remember, when working, having to force feed patients, who were in a vegetative state. The ethical dilemma. Do I have the right to give this patient nourishment, through a feeding tube, to keep them alive? Yet, do I have the right to even think of with holding a life sustaining substance. Deciding who is to live..a right that only belongs to a supreme being.
Click to expand...

ndynt, you bring to light some very difficult near end of life decisions. It is very difficult to determine whether there is a realistic prospect that things will get better. Regrettably the people who should know best, the doctors, are vulnerable to conflicts of interest. You have said that "I enjoy every extra day that I am given", I could imagine saying I regret every extra day that I have been forced to suffer. Clearly the choice must be left to the individual.
 
.
Josiah, I wonder though....when or do you say "This is enough". When do you decide it is hopeless? Do you allow the treatments and care that prolongs life to just go on? How many are brave enough to admit it is hopeless and just stop everything?
Personally, my life has been extended several times, and I question why. Just what is my purpose in life? I have had three heart surgeries in the last year, have other issues that require too much medication. Too many MD visits. Live with chronic pain. Feel guilty about the amount of money that medicare spends to keep me alive...even though my MD's try to assure me that I earned the right to the care ??? Even though I enjoy every extra day that I am given, cannot help think...for what purpose?
I remember, when working, having to force feed patients, who were in a vegetative state. The ethical dilemma. Do I have the right to give this patient nourishment, through a feeding tube, to keep them alive? Yet, do I have the right to even think of with holding a life sustaining substance. Deciding who is to live..a right that only belongs to a supreme being.

I am so thankful that now we have 'Living Wills' that at least gives us some say about how our lives are to be prolonged or not. For every day we have its purpose is for us to live in that day, and how we choose to 'live' it is so much up to individual. On my low days and yes I had many and simply wanted to throw in the towel I thought of all the people that would give anything for one more day to just look at the sun, hear the birds, see a loved ones face but their days are going to be over very soon, so I grabbed those days and I made them into something, I called them 'MINE".

 
Recently I was involved in taking care of a terminally ill 41 year old relative. There was definitely a time when we (she and us caretakers) and her doctors knew it was all over; however she had to live (if you can call what she did in the last weeks of her life living) on for at least a month and a half, in terrible pain and indignity. She had, of course, declined any so-called "heroic measures" such as a feeding tube, and none were used. As the cancer got into her brain, she didn't even know where or who she was or who we were. It was absolutely horrific, even with hospice care at home; finally she had to go into in-hospital hospice because we could no longer manage at home. She died the end of January.

If I ever get to that point I hope someone will just shoot me. Or better yet, I hope my state gets to where physician assisted death is available, as it is in Oregon.
 
As a former Hospice nurse I am so sorry to hear that she had to endure such a painful passing. In the many years that I was a Hospice nurse, I only had three patients that we could not get pain free. And they too had brain involvement. I agree, no one, the patient or their loved ones should have to endure that type of suffering.
 
Thank you, ndynt. I didn't fault the hospice nurses -- I think they did the best they could do, I read somewhere that in some cases a thing called "terminal sedation" is used -- I gather it is kind of like a medically induced coma. I wish they would have/could have done that for her. She, herself, was gone long before her body gave up. At the end it was like something out of a bad horror movie, especially her last night.
 

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