Perspective on US and homicide

I think what is important is not how much of gun related deaths there are in any one nation vs another nation, it's that it is avoidable. Arming a nation will millions, and millions of weapons, and then wringing your hands over people blowing their brains out, or hauling off and wiping out a school, is insane.
 

Born To Lose: I can’t find any words that would make you feel better. Did this happen some time ago? I have visited a Federal prison and they are a lot nicer than a state prison, but how old is your brother? I can’t imagine being in prison for the rest of my life. I think prisoners stay in their cell 23 hours a day and they get to shower 2 or 3 times a week. I guess your brother has no chance for parole?
No parole. My brother just turned 50, so he has been in prison for quite awhile. He’s been depressed for years, but who wouldn’t be? If given a choice between a federal or state prison, most of us would accept a federal prison. Overcrowding is unlikely, the food is better, the guards treat prisoners differently and you are allowed a few more privileges over a state facility. My brother’s biggest complaint is that the loneliness is terrible. Even the guards won’t speak to you. You get an hour or so to go outside, or if the weather is too bad to go out, you have a choice of either using the gym or sitting in the library, but you are not left alone with other prisoners, not even for a minute. He has never spoken of killing himself.
 
@Born_To_Lose I have a question, you don't need to answer if you are not comfortable.

Did your brother use a firearm? If so had he not had access do you think things would have gone differently?
Yes, he always carried a gun.
I won’t go into the whole story, but he was going to kill those 3 guys one way or another. If you knew the reason behind all this, you would understand better as to why why he wanted these men dead, but I won’t go into all of it. We (the family) had no idea that our brother or son was involved with the people he was. My brother didn’t hold down a job, but always had a wad of cash on him.
 

I only have one more question. Were the 3 men that your brother killed bad guys themselves? I would hate to think he killed 3 guys that worked hard and had families with young kids at home.
 
Well, the US beat out a host of Third World nations, who were in the midst of revolutions, drug wars, and civil unrest. YEAH!!!
That means, in the US, only 316 per day, are shot in murders assaults, suicides, unintentional shootings, etc., etc. That's only 115,340 a year. Do we get a trophy?
That's exactly what I was thinking.
 
No doubt there are exceptions, but on the whole there are numerous indications linking lower intelligence with a higher incidence of crime.

“Lower IQ was associated with violence perpetration in the UK general population. Further studies are warranted to assess how low IQ can lead to violence perpetration, and whether interventions are possible for this high-risk group.”
https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...l-population/AF21CE0AEDE9FFB0BC44AA1D059CF735

This subject has a political aspect, so I suggest we just leave it as a disagreement.
So countries and states with a highly educated populace should have a lower rate of violence. That's probably true. I don't have time to research it right now. I have to go to the dentist.
 
No doubt there are exceptions, but on the whole there are numerous indications linking lower intelligence with a higher incidence of crime.

“Lower IQ was associated with violence perpetration in the UK general population. Further studies are warranted to assess how low IQ can lead to violence perpetration, and whether interventions are possible for this high-risk group.”
https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...l-population/AF21CE0AEDE9FFB0BC44AA1D059CF735

This subject has a political aspect, so I suggest we just leave it as a disagreement.
I would argue that none of these perpetrator's IQs were tested.

I think what they probably meant to say is that "under-educated" people tend to be more violent, and I would argue further that the violence is due to lifestyle, such as poverty and deprivation, rather than their level of education. One of the deprivations could be substandard mental health treatment, or a complete a lack of it. Others might include poor parenting, poor nutrition, inconsistent school attendance, and social inequity.
 
So countries and states with a highly educated populace should have a lower rate of violence. That's probably true. I don't have time to research it right now. I have to go to the dentist.
Other than Ashkenazi Jews, the most intelligent among us are the East Asians of China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. From the standpoint of low rates of criminal violence they score very well. The three countries with the lowest intentional homicide rates in the world are Japan, Indonesia, and China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...highest_rates_and_most_populous_countries.png
 
No doubt there are exceptions, but on the whole there are numerous indications linking lower intelligence with a higher incidence of crime.

“Lower IQ was associated with violence perpetration in the UK general population. Further studies are warranted to assess how low IQ can lead to violence perpetration, and whether interventions are possible for this high-risk group.”
https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...l-population/AF21CE0AEDE9FFB0BC44AA1D059CF735

This subject has a political aspect, so I suggest we just leave it as a disagreement.
I was finally able to open the link....I couldn't when I first tried.

"There were 6872 participants aged ⩾16 years included in this study. The prevalence of violence perpetration decreased linearly with increasing IQ [16.3% (IQ 70–79) v. 2.9% (IQ 120–129)]. After adjusting for demographic and behavioral factors, childhood adversity, and psychiatric morbidity, compared with those with IQ 120–129, IQ scores of 110–119, 100–109, 90–99, 80–89, and 70–79 were associated with 1.07 [95% confidence interval (CI) 0.63–1.84], 1.90 (95% CI 1.12–3.22), 1.80 (95% CI 1.05–3.13), 2.36 (95% CI 1.32–4.22), and 2.25 (95% CI 1.26–4.01) times higher odds for violence perpetration, respectively."

But I stand by my previous post about under-educated people. I still think poverty, mental health, and lack of services has more to do with violence than IQ.
 
It is easy to be lofty and assume that it is “the unwashed, poor or low intelligence “ that commit these crimes. The day I realized that I myself could kill was enlightening. I was younger then…and now I know several folks doing hard time for murder…or some variation of it. This is why I do not have a gun…I might use it.
 
I was finally able to open the link....I couldn't when I first tried.

"There were 6872 participants aged ⩾16 years included in this study. The prevalence of violence perpetration decreased linearly with increasing IQ [16.3% (IQ 70–79) v. 2.9% (IQ 120–129)]. After adjusting for demographic and behavioral factors, childhood adversity, and psychiatric morbidity, compared with those with IQ 120–129, IQ scores of 110–119, 100–109, 90–99, 80–89, and 70–79 were associated with 1.07 [95% confidence interval (CI) 0.63–1.84], 1.90 (95% CI 1.12–3.22), 1.80 (95% CI 1.05–3.13), 2.36 (95% CI 1.32–4.22), and 2.25 (95% CI 1.26–4.01) times higher odds for violence perpetration, respectively."

But I stand by my previous post about under-educated people. I still think poverty, mental health, and lack of services has more to do with violence than IQ.
Poverty, crime, and violence share a common root — IQ.
 
Poverty, crime, and violence share a common root — IQ.
I disagree. In my opinion, it's lack of education, not IQ. It's a social problem.

Low IQ is most often due to an organic brain disorder, a genetic disorder, or brain injury. People with these abnormalities don't even have the capability to learn beyond a certain level. However, if your brain is normal but your IQ tests low, you can increase your IQ by exercising your brain, which includes education and various specialized therapies.
 
So countries and states with a highly educated populace should have a lower rate of violence. That's probably true. I don't have time to research it right now. I have to go to the dentist.
I don't know if highly educated people are less violent, but most credible sources state that there is very little data to warrant that low intelligence causes an increase in violence in a population. The overwhelming cause of violence in a population has proven to be poverty.
 
It is easy to be lofty and assume that it is “the unwashed, poor or low intelligence “ that commit these crimes. The day I realized that I myself could kill was enlightening. I was younger then…and now I know several folks doing hard time for murder…or some variation of it. This is why I do not have a gun…I might use it.
"It is easy to be lofty and assume that it is “the unwashed, poor or low intelligence “ that commit these crimes"

Right, what about Ted Bundy who was clean cut, and graduated college with a degree in psychology.

https://www.biography.com/crime/ted-bundy
 
I have been involved with many lower IQ persons in my working life and none displayed any signs of violent behaviors - however give them guns to play with and show them cowboy and indian films on tv and then see what might happen?

australia has always had guns from the first fleet onwards but has also prohibited them at various times - and had buy back schemes and voluntary hand overs - there are still some used by criminals of course and farmers are still permitted to carry them with a liscence but the rest of the entire population barring police and army do not require them this has lead to a safer country - it's simple really do the maths??
 
I disagree. In my opinion, it's lack of education, not IQ. It's a social problem.

Low IQ is most often due to an organic brain disorder, a genetic disorder, or brain injury. People with these abnormalities don't even have the capability to learn beyond a certain level. However, if your brain is normal but your IQ tests low, you can increase your IQ by exercising your brain, which includes education and various specialized therapies.
IQ is genetic. It is genetic in East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews, as well as all of humanity and frequently manifests itself in skull volume, just as genetic athletic abilities are gifted on some more than others. No doubt a product of evolution in a variety of environments.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016028960200137X

I suggest we leave it here, lest this discussion degenerate into politics versus an unpleasant truth, which is the way it’s headed.
 
Australia has demonstrated a litmus test -it exercised several armistices over time which reduced gun ownership to clubs and farmers and it has been able to hold the line on this since and our problems are minisculous. Achieving the same in usa i would guess is almost impossible - the horses were let out of the gate before it was closed and have bolted
 
Australia has demonstrated a litmus test -it exercised several armistices over time which reduced gun ownership to clubs and farmers and it has been able to hold the line on this since and our problems are minisculous. Achieving the same in usa i would guess is almost impossible - the horses were let out of the gate before it was closed and have bolted
The reason it won't be happening here any time soon is that too few people support changing our laws. And to make a big change would require a constitutional amendment, not a thing easily done.

You are right about the horses out of the barn, or gate. We have a lot of guns. And are getting more all the time.
 
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I laugh because I find this entire conversation insanely hypocritical. Not the one I’m currently having with you . It’s in the political area , and just not worth discussing for me. There are healthier areas to be putting my energy and this isn’t one of them.
Funny, dialog, not related to politics, gets labeled as political, with no reference to politics, offends you. Not everything people discuss is political.
 
The overwhelming cause of violence in a population has proven to be poverty.
I agree.
Funny, dialog, not related to politics, gets labeled as political, with no reference to politics, offends you. Not everything people discuss is political.
You misunderstood my words. My main point being that the conversation is intensely hypocritical. How it’s hypocritical I won’t get into since it comes off as me being against all Americans, which is FAR from the truth.

My comments about it being political doesn’t offend me. I’m more worried about myself getting off track and crossing into the political arena, which is against the rules here and YES these types of threads definitely become political

There is a double standard in these conversations which I’m also not willing to discuss since it tends to come back as me just trying to stir the pot but it’s something that happens in every one of these threads.
 
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I agree.

You misunderstood my words. My main point being that the conversation is intensely hypocritical. How it’s hypocritical I won’t get into since it comes off as me being against all Americans, which is FAR from the truth.

My comments about it being political doesn’t offend me. I’m more worried about myself getting off track and crossing into the political arena, which is against the rules here and YES these types of threads definitely become political

There is a double standard in these conversations which I’m also not willing to discuss since it tends to come back as me just trying to stir the pot but it’s something that happens in every one of these threads.
Everything is political these days... even a pandemic!

My account was suspended for a week because I criticized a cable news program. They told me it was because of politics but I didn't say anything whatsoever about politics. It was more cultural issues that I was talking about. But cultural issues are political, I guess.
 


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