Playing "Devils Advocate", (is this just proving how clever you are, and how stupid you think the other guy is?)

grahamg

grahamg

Old codger
Location
South of Manchester, UK
In all likelihood each one of us has at one time or another "Played Devil's Advocate", but some of us at least can claim we dont think we're clever enough to try to make a habit of it, (even should we wish to! :whistle:).

I must say I dislike the practise generally, and feel I'm being made a fool of very often by those indulging in this behaviour, especially when I'm paying whoever it might be to try to plant all kinds of contrary arguments into my mind, whether or not its really necessary, or a sensible way forward.

If children wish to "play you up" they might decide to do the opposite to whatever it might be you wish them to do as a parent, such as "behave in church", "wash their hands before a meal", (fibbing they've done so etc.), "refusing to share toys with their cousins", or whatever it might be, but of course they are just that, "children", and no doubt looking for boundaries, or sussing out just how soft or foolish you might be!

Adults doing what they do when they refuse to accept what you say, even when there is blatantly obvious evidence that whatever you're saying is the case is true, and you're sort of foced onto the defensive for no really good reason, if you react to their "game"!

There we are, a thread about "Playing Devil's Advocate", (I often think we might as well all give up if this is all you/we can expect in any discourse we encounter, but maybe I'm being "too sensitive"! :unsure:;) ).
 

Devil's Advocate can often be used to hide behind a position you don't feel comfortable defending, in which case, I suppose it would be related to passive aggression. I'm seldom annoyed by Devil's Advocate, but I've never satisfactorily learned to cope with passive aggression. My father practically made a career out of passive aggression, and when I see someone doing it, I get unreasonably annoyed by the ploy, even if the point being made is of little interest to me.
 
grahamg said:
In all likelihood each one of us has at one time or another "Played Devil's Advocate", but some of us at least can claim we dont think we're clever enough to try to make a habit of it, (even should we wish to! :whistle:).

I must say I dislike the practise generally, and feel I'm being made a fool of very often by those indulging in this behaviour, especially when I'm paying whoever it might be to try to plant all kinds of contrary arguments into my mind, whether or not its really necessary, or a sensible way forward.

If children wish to "play you up" they might decide to do the opposite to whatever it might be you wish them to do as a parent, such as "behave in church", "wash their hands before a meal", (fibbing they've done so etc.), "refusing to share toys with their cousins", or whatever it might be, but of course they are just that, "children", and no doubt looking for boundaries, or sussing out just how soft or foolish you might be!

Adults doing what they do when they refuse to accept what you say, even when there is blatantly obvious evidence that whatever you're saying is the case is true, and you're sort of foced onto the defensive for no really good reason, if you react to their "game"!

There we are, a thread about "Playing Devil's Advocate", (I often think we might as well all give up if this is all you/we can expect in any discourse we encounter, but maybe I'm being "too sensitive"! :unsure:;) ).
Click to expand...

It is good to train the mind to see other positions. They say that one of the greatest qualities of Abraham Lincoln is that he could see all sides of a situation.

As far as being rebellious for the sake of being rebellious?

Well, a bit of that is fun. Beyond that, can just be incredibly annoying.


If everyone in the room is doing fine, it is not big deal. But, if say, there happens to be someone there who had an abusive husband who was always yelling and screaming and criticizing...not the best for the person to constantly receive challenges.
 

grahamg said:
In all likelihood each one of us has at one time or another "Played Devil's Advocate", but some of us at least can claim we dont think we're clever enough to try to make a habit of it, (even should we wish to! :whistle:).

I must say I dislike the practise generally, and feel I'm being made a fool of very often by those indulging in this behaviour, especially when I'm paying whoever it might be to try to plant all kinds of contrary arguments into my mind, whether or not its really necessary, or a sensible way forward.

If children wish to "play you up" they might decide to do the opposite to whatever it might be you wish them to do as a parent, such as "behave in church", "wash their hands before a meal", (fibbing they've done so etc.), "refusing to share toys with their cousins", or whatever it might be, but of course they are just that, "children", and no doubt looking for boundaries, or sussing out just how soft or foolish you might be!

Adults doing what they do when they refuse to accept what you say, even when there is blatantly obvious evidence that whatever you're saying is the case is true, and you're sort of foced onto the defensive for no really good reason, if you react to their "game"!

There we are, a thread about "Playing Devil's Advocate", (I often think we might as well all give up if this is all you/we can expect in any discourse we encounter, but maybe I'm being "too sensitive"! :unsure:;) ).
Click to expand...

Also, Graham, just wanted to say, generally, have enjoyed interacting with your posts. You seem like a very nice guy. Wishing you well. You know, here in Crazy America, we just had another mass shooting. Wakes you up and makes you realize the simple things...like sharing a little friendship.

Best wishes...
 
Well Graham, I play devil's advocate sometimes and I certainly don't associate it with disobedient children or passive aggression. Your post had me wondering if I had the meaning wrong, but Google's top definition was this:

a person who expresses a contentious opinion in order to provoke debate or test the strength of the opposing arguments.
Click to expand...
When I do it it's for the bolded part. I hate to see a topic covered without even a nod to the good arguments on other side, or bad arguments left unchallenged.

For example, I was playing devil's advocate a little bit on the abortion thread here because page after page just had the pro-choice stance. On the other hand, I was talking to some Catholic nuns one time who brought up the old story about Beethoven's mother almost aborting him and I pointed out that Charles Manson's mother almost aborted him. My point being that I don't think "He might be a great composer" is a good reason to outlaw abortions, because chances are just as good that he might be a serial killer.

When I play devils advocate I'm not trying to make a fool of anyone, play a game, or appear clever, I'm just saying there might be another side to this point, or, "I'm on your side, but I think we have stronger reasons."
 
In the atmosphere of a computer/phone screen you are shooting in the dark when you make a comment, unless you are pandering. There are gangs developing on all sides to attack those with different views. We have some extremely important choices to make now, and we can not have a civil discussion that puts things in context. Context has been negated and the power of mass emotional control has replaced it. I am not even confident that civil discourse is possible anymore.
 

The Mule - Aesop​

A mule that had grown fat and wanton on too great an allowance of corn was one day jumping and kicking about. At length, cocking up her tail, she exclaimed, "My mother was a racer, and I am quite as good as ever she was." But being soon exhausted with her galloping and frisking, she remembered all at once that her father was but an ass.

Every truth has two sides. It is well to look at both before we commit ourselves to either. ;)
 
So many threads & posts thrive because a poster will take a devil's advocate position.

Take this quote for example
"Quote"
I must say I dislike the practise generally, and feel I'm being made a fool of very often by those indulging in this behaviour, especially when I'm paying whoever it might be to try to plant all kinds of contrary arguments into my mind, whether or not its really necessary, or a sensible way forward.

Why would you pay to have someone "plant" contrary arguments when I can do it for free? Or for that matter, dislike something you are paying for?

So for this thread I'm going to play devil's advocate & argue that a contrary opinion can bring clarity if nothing else to most situations.
 
Devil's Advocate in not something that I am familiar with, but I have read on it. I do not feel that a devil's advocate is clever or stupid, I think he is a troublemaker. I am not a devil's advocate and generally ignore people like that. But there comes the time I need to stand up and let someone know I am not a push over. There are so many people that are passive and let a person dominate their life and tell them what they are and tell them what to believe in and what to do. I do not put up with that type of person. I also like a phrase that my grandfather said, " Don't be the third man on the wheel because when there is a third man on the wheel everything goes to h311". When two people have a disagreement don't but into their business, let them work it out their selves.
 
Last edited:
Della said:
Well Graham, I play devil's advocate sometimes and I certainly don't associate it with disobedient children or passive aggression. Your post had me wondering if I had the meaning wrong, but Google's top definition was this: (Break). When I do it it's for the bolded part. I hate to see a topic covered without even a nod to the good arguments on other side, or bad arguments left unchallenged. For example, I was playing devil's advocate a little bit on the abortion thread here because page after page just had the pro-choice stance. On the other hand, I was talking to some Catholic nuns one time who brought up the old story about Beethoven's mother almost aborting him and I pointed out that Charles Manson's mother almost aborted him. My point being that I don't think "He might be a great composer" is a good reason to outlaw abortions, because chances are just as good that he might be a serial killer. When I play devils advocate I'm not trying to make a fool of anyone, play a game, or appear clever, I'm just saying there might be another side to this point, or, "I'm on your side, but I think we have stronger reasons."
Click to expand...
Those adept at techniques to use when challenging whatever position it might be, can almost convince "anyone of anything" in my view, and there of course is the problem, (or a problem anyway!).
Sometimes matters that are perfectly straightforward and relatively easy for most people to make sense of become something else entirely, and in my humble opinion, someone might as well be the devil himself/herself, if you're playing that role in people's lives, by challenging stuff that doesn't really need challenging or undermining further, (as they'll doing his/her work! :rolleyes:(n)o_O ).
 
grahamg said:
Those adept at techniques to use when challenging whatever position it might be, can almost convince "anyone of anything" in my view, and there of course is the problem, (or a problem anyway!).
Sometimes matters that are perfectly straightforward and relatively easy for most people to make sense of become something else entirely, and in my humble opinion, someone might as well be the devil himself/herself, if you're playing that role in people's lives, by challenging stuff that doesn't really need challenging or undermining further, (as they'll doing his/her work! :rolleyes:(n)o_O ).
Click to expand...
We call that, "Don't confuse me with the facts."
 
Some people just enjoy debating, (arguing), causing controversy anywhere they can. I don't play into that situation. There is no point to it. That is why I enjoy this board. For the most point, people are accepting of all.
 
Della said:
We call that, "Don't confuse me with the facts."
Click to expand...
Or alternatively, (playing Devil's Advocate myself for a moment), dont worry folks by asking every darn question, and wanting to know every thing, because using my dad's old saying, "You might as well shoot a man as worry him to death"! :eek:;):censored::sneaky:
 
Tish said:
I don't like playing Devil's Advocate and won't do so, as it results in a person's feelings and confidence being crushed.
That's all I have to say on the subject.
Click to expand...
Good girl, short and sweet, (well not so strong on the "sweet side" but we'll ignore that because of your general direction of travel ;) !).
 
Knight said:
So many threads & posts thrive because a poster will take a devil's advocate position.
Take this quote for example
"Grahamg quote"
I must say I dislike the practise generally, and feel I'm being made a fool of very often by those indulging in this behaviour, especially when I'm paying whoever it might be to try to plant all kinds of contrary arguments into my mind, whether or not its really necessary, or a sensible way forward.
Click to expand...
Knight said:
Why would you pay to have someone "plant" contrary arguments when I can do it for free? Or for that matter, dislike something you are paying for?

So for this thread I'm going to play devil's advocate & argue that a contrary opinion can bring clarity if nothing else to most situations.
Click to expand...
I think you make some fair points there, (us blokes have got to stick together some times! ;):sneaky:(y) ).
 
The Devil's Advocate,a little misused these days, it was originally a term applied to someone charged by the Vatican to argue against the canonization of a new saint. The point of the Devil's Advocate was to bring to light any relevant details that would disqualify a person from sainthood. The job of a Devil's Advocate is to aid in the search for truth. There is nothing wrong in playing DA, if it helps a situation. I like the truth so it suits me.
 
timoc said:

Playing "Devils Advocate", (is this just proving how clever you are, and how stupid you think the other guy is?)​


Graham, I know how really stupid I am, so everyone I meet must be clever. 😊
Click to expand...
We could have a competition to decide who amongst us is the stupider, (you up for that endeavour?)! 🥴🤡👨‍🌾
 
morgan said:
The Devil's Advocate,a little misused these days, it was originally a term applied to someone charged by the Vatican to argue against the canonization of a new saint. The point of the Devil's Advocate was to bring to light any relevant details that would disqualify a person from sainthood. The job of a Devil's Advocate is to aid in the search for truth. There is nothing wrong in playing DA, if it helps a situation. I like the truth so it suits me.
Click to expand...
Selecting a saint has to be some kind of undertaking, where would you choose to start being one consideration, and it can only be getting ore difficult I'd suppose with the growth of mass communication, social media and the like, so every argument you've ever made could be scrutinised by someone playing Devils Advocate to decide if one of us my one day be eligible for such a place in heaven.

I wont expect to achieve such status, (unless a very poor devils advocate gets the job of assessing me I suspect I'd not make it), but speaking of what a difficult process it has become now I have to add, "on the other hand", it used to take centuries to decide men like Sir Thomas More should achieve sainthood didnt it!!! :sneaky:
 
Rather than being negative, if used correctly, playing devil’s advocate is a method of looking at issues, questions, or beliefs from a different perspective rather than taking the situation at face value alone. As a geologist, I have had to use this “tool”quite often in conferences and have been very successful getting my point across.
 
I think it depends on how its done. Presenting the other side of an issue can make discussions more interesting.

When I do it I often start out declaring that I am taking the devil's advocate position. I think doing that can really help people sharpen and focus discussion. However disagreement just for the sake of it isn't much fun.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top