Race/Racism discussion

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@Falcon - was that in Detroit? I seem to recall you said you're from there, right?

I had a boyfriend who lived there - his family moved from Ohio to Detroit in the 60s. My bf and his brothers were very talented; had a band and made a lot of money under the management of their father. Nightclubs, dances, corporate events. Back then there were some beautiful homes and many black families did quite well. But now you could not pay me to go near Detroit. I've read a lot and seen videos - what a sewer. uuuggghhh.... And don't even get me started talking about former Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. He was sent to prison for 28 yrs - which is where he deserves to be.
 

Yes, AC It was Detroit and Cooley High School. In the mid 30s my father7 had a beautiful brick home built on the corner of Normandy and Grove.

Yes, AC, Detroit. In the mid 30s, my father had a beautiful home built on the corner of Normandy & Grove. I lived there until after WWII.

Then moved here (Calif.) I know what you mean about the city today. I went back there about 6 years ago and drove thru the neighborhood

And was saddened and heartbroken. That beautiful house was a shambles; broken windows, broken fence, lawns of weeds etc..

My question is WHY ? Can't the citizens see what's become of that once beautiful city?

I have no interest of returning there for any reason. Too cold there in the winter anyway.

Nice chatting with you Applecruncher.
;
 
Something I've noticed and experienced, especially when I was working. (This doesn't apply to all white people, but suffice to say it happened a lot.)

Often when a white person meets or is assigned to work closely or travel with a black co-worker, the white person will slyly bring up the subject of race by saying "they had a black roommate in college" or "a black couple just bought a house down the street and they seem like really nice people", etc. etc.

This is kinda silly....they go out of their way to try to convince the black person they have nothing against blacks. But when people did this, I found it offensive because it showed they didn't see me as a person - they saw me as a black person.
 

AC-I think this has to be the best thread I have ever seen on this Forum-maybe on any forum. We are headed out for dinner right now so I will have to comment later but can hardly wait to read more comments. I always knew I liked you and now I know why. More later.
 
Thanks, Mrs. R. The feeling is mutual. :love_heart:

And yes, I have a lot more stories. Hard to type while eating warmed up tuna casserole.
 
applecruncher said:
Something I've noticed and experienced, especially when I was working. (This doesn't apply to all white people, but suffice to say it happened a lot.)

Often when a white person meets or is assigned to work closely or travel with a black co-worker, the white person will slyly bring up the subject of race by saying "they had a black roommate in college" or "a black couple just bought a house down the street and they seem like really nice people", etc. etc.

This is kinda silly....they go out of their way to try to convince the black person they have nothing against blacks. But when people did this, I found it offensive because it showed they didn't see me as a person - they saw me as a black person.
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Maybe those white people were(in their clumsy fashion) just trying to connect?

And, as far as seeing your being black, the concept of being 'color blind' is warm n' fuzzy, but it's just a myth. People[all people] recognize other people's differing racial and cultural traits.
 
I confess that I've never really had any close associations with a Black person. There were none in my schools when growing up, very few in the career field I had in the military, virtually none in my working career, and very few in areas we have lived in. All I know is what I see on the news....and most of that is negative.

Of interest lately is the "Black Lives Matter"movement. I've been paying attention to that, especially since it seems to have started in Ferguson, MO., just a couple hours drive from here. It seems, to me, that the best way to avoid any confrontation with the police is to act in a civil manner, and follow the instructions given by the police when stopped. Being a policeman, to me, would have to be the worst job in the world...having to deal with criminals, and derelicts on a daily basis...never knowing when one of them might attack. Then, I think about just what or who would benefit from the demands this movement is trying to instill. As the cops are being increasingly "demonized", and insulted, it is only human nature that these police will begin to reduce their presence in the areas where they are truly needed the most. As a result, the thugs in the drug and street gangs, which already hold the Real authority in the depressed neighborhoods, will continue to gain strength and control over the area. The Real losers will be the honest hard working people in those regions. The riots, looting, and burning of local infrastructure in these neighborhoods will turn parts of our inner cities into little more than 3rd world ghettos.

I also find it strange that so many Blacks seem to want to be identified as "African American". In truth, most Blacks are more "American" than most of the Whites....their ancestry can be traced back to this nation many more generations than most Whites. I don't recall ever having met any Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, or French-Americans, etc.....just Americans. Equality is most likely to flourish when people identify with a common baseline, and have similar goals.

Racism is something that has little or no effect on me, personally, but it is sure making life in many of our cities miserable....for members of All races.
 
tnthomas said:
Maybe those white people were(in their clumsy fashion) just trying to connect?

And, as far as seeing your being black, the concept of being 'color blind' is warm n' fuzzy, but it's just a myth. People[all people] recognize other people's differing racial and cultural traits.
Click to expand...


We are a diverse bunch where I work. Our coordinator is a Somali born psychiatrist, two of our therapists are East Asian, one is Indigenous, the rest are Caucasian. Oh, the secretary is a Muslim from Malaysia, I think? Of course we all notice the differences between us, but we believe that strengthens our ability to provide services to a multicultural community.
 
applecruncher said:
Something I've noticed and experienced, especially when I was working. (This doesn't apply to all white people, but suffice to say it happened a lot.)

Often when a white person meets or is assigned to work closely or travel with a black co-worker, the white person will slyly bring up the subject of race by saying "they had a black roommate in college" or "a black couple just bought a house down the street and they seem like really nice people", etc. etc.

This is kinda silly....they go out of their way to try to convince the black person they have nothing against blacks. But when people did this, I found it offensive because it showed they didn't see me as a person - they saw me as a black person.
Click to expand...

I sort of relate to that...somewhat. My father is white, my mother Korean. It was more obvious when I was younger that I'm not 100% white, but sometimes people still look at me with that expression that says they want to ask but think they shouldn't. When I was a kid and people asked "What are you?" I'd tell them, and they usually said "OH! I love Jacki Chan!" - who identifies as Chinese. :playful: These days, if I am asked, and tell, the person usually wants to discuss Kim Jong Un. I have never lived in Korea, and never visited North Korea. ..awkward.

Granted, applecruncher, the issue of my race has never really been particularly difficult for me (especially since my hair turned white) but still, I decided young to always be patient and understanding about it. And I am very optimistic that a time is coming when people will read about the issue of race with disbelief.
 
So glad to see this discussion. It is so needed.

I grew up in an all white town north of Boston. I left after high school graduation and went to Myrtle Beach South Carolina. Quite a change for me as I worked side by side with blacks. We got along well.
I was in Myrtle Beach to have fun and see the world. They were workers and when not at work they went back to their towns. They were not there to party.

I met my husband who had just joined the Air Force. I began to see more of the world. To me the military was great as far as diversity. We all made the same income, lived in the same housing, went to the same neighborhood schools. Us and our children made friends with all races of people.

We moved to our last base in North Carolina when my children were in grade school. I remember when we were moving one of my black friends said the blacks in the south were "too passive".
We wanted to buy a house and not live on base because my husband would be retiring here. We chose a town out in the country in a small community. The school had minority students, some military kids, but mostly white and it was quite different then the schools they attended in the military.

There is much more of a cultural divide in the south. It seems most of the blacks I know are people I work with or patients of mine but I don't socialise much beyond that.
I tend to relate more with the older generation of blacks here and I think they are more what my friend called "passive". They've seen and experienced racism and want to move beyond it.

I don't avoid having friends of different races and have many acquaintances. In my work now it's just me and my assistant. My kids are long out of school and I didn't ever keep in touch with any of their friend's parents. I don't see my neighbors much right now. Only on Facebook.lol

When retire I hope to join groups and make friends, visit my neighbors, get out in the world.
I want to understand racism and how to stop it. This country is so torn right now.
I think a lot is fear and not hate. We fear what we don't understand.
 
I know my post and some others are more of our experiences with race but I hope some hard questions about racism get asked and discussed so we can all come away with something good.
Thank you applecruncher.
My first is: Do you think forced integration was good or bad for this country? Could that part of civil rights be handled better?
 
@hearlady

- I don't think racism is based on fear. I think ii's mostly based on selfishness, ignorance, and hatred.....but mostly a feeling of superiority. (In my story about the grocery store manager who called me a name, what on earth was there for him to "fear" from a hard working 18 yr old girl from a decent family who was about to graduate high school and go to college? :confused: )What did the murderers of Emmett Till "fear"? :confused: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till

Racism based on fear? Nah, that's an excuse, a cop-out, and I'm not buying it.

RACISM: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

- Concerning integration, it was necessary. Basic opportunities, especially pertaining to a decent education.

Upthread Don M. made the comment that racism hasn't affected him. Well, if he or his parents had been denied employment, housing, an education, a bank loan/mortgage, or service in a restaurant based solely on the color of his skin he might feel differently.
 
applecruncher said:
Upthread Don M. made the comment that racism hasn't affected him. Well, if he or his parents had been denied employment, housing, or an education based simply on the color of his skin he might feel differently.
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Living in New Mexico which is multicultural (part of the reason I'm here), it's not that unusual to be discriminated against for being white. First time it happened to me, I thought, so that's what it feels like? It was a good learning experience, but I can't imagine how it would feel if that happened all through my life instead of a few times.
 
Okay, okay.....stop clamoring. Here's another story.

In jr high and high school my best friend was Judy, who was black. But she went to the Catholic High School, and I attended one of the public high schools (the largest one). Judy and I dated brothers......good looking guys who had a band and drove their dad's '62 black Cadillac.

I had both black and white friends in high school, I was in lots of activities, and as I said earlier I had a job in a grocery store. The black kids tended to cluster together, and they always sat together at lunch in the cafeteria. Always. This was a large school (about 1400 kids).

Most of my black friends were nice enough, but there were two sisters - Mary & Geraldine - who gave new meaning to bullying and torment. They were vile. I always sat with the black cluster at lunch, but sometimes my stomach would be in knots because of them. I also had a good friend who was white - Phyllis. One day I simply decided I was NOT going to put up with Mary & Geraldine's BS. So I talked to Phyllis and asked her if I could start sitting with her group at lunch. She said sure.

So, we got our trays, I walked past the black cluster.......a hush .....I mean people's forks stopped mid-air. EVERYBODY stared. And I never sat with Mary & Geraldine again. They came to my locker and demanded to know what was going on. Puhleeeze. :rolleyes: I looked at them as if they were something to be scraped off the bottom of my shoe, closed my locker, said nothing and walked away.

I didn't realize it then, but I was kinda the Rosa Parks of the high school cafeteria. :)
 
Yes applecruncher I agree that the definition of racism is one race feeling superior over another.
I don't think ( or hope ) most people feel that way nowadays.
When I say fear I mean this:
One may not hate (or feel superior to) Hispanics but they fear a large immigration would put a drain on our system.
One may not hate Muslims but fear suicide bombs or sharia law.
One may not hate ( or again, feel superior) to black people but fear reverse racism.
One may not hate Asians....wait who would fear Asians..just kidding. You get the point.
I fear these things are ignorant but sadly true.

Ill accept your view on immigration. I don't enough know about it so I'm asking. They started bussing students to my town the year after I graduated. Just always seemed a bad use of funds to bus students so far from schools, families, community, etc. Could the money have been be better spent to improve the lives and education
of young black students.
I'm just here to learn.
 
I agree on your basis' from racism, AC but-

For some of us, there is a base of fear. Great fear. As stupid as this sounds now, to me, a small child in an all white neighborhood, things on TV made huge impressions.

TV show and movies which featured "the Natives" scared the hell out of me! Tarzan, Ramar of the Jungle, certain cartoons, etc. featured black people with scary painted faces, spears and were always ready to kill white people, or so it seemed. I even had nightmares.

Of course, that all changed but one day, as a young and obvious mother-to-be, I was walking downtown when 3 black male youths were walking toward me, abreast, and took up the entire sidewalk. I had to stop and the one on the end actually shouldered me aside and off the curb into the gutter. Fortunately, I kept my balance.

Their hate was obvious and I felt so very hurt and also frightened. I still wonder what that was all about.
 
hearlady said:
Yes applecruncher I agree that the definition of racism is one race feeling superior over another.
I don't think ( or hope ) most people feel that way nowadays.
When I say fear I mean this:
One may not hate (or feel superior to) Hispanics but they fear a large immigration would put a drain on our system.
One may not hate Muslims but fear suicide bombs or sharia law.
One may not hate ( or again, feel superior) to black people but fear reverse racism.
One may not hate Asians....wait who would fear Asians..just kidding. You get the point.
I fear these things are ignorant but sadly true.

Ill accept your view on immigration. I don't enough know about it so I'm asking. They started bussing students to my town the year after I graduated. Just always seemed a bad use of funds to bus students so far from schools, families, community, etc. Could the money have been be better spent to improve the lives and education
of young black students.
I'm just here to learn.
Click to expand...

hearlady, just to clarify I didn't address immigration - you asked about integration.

I appreciate your comments.

ETA: Now I see you corrected. :)
 
applecruncher said:
Okay, okay.....stop clamoring. Here's another story.

In jr high and high school my best friend was Judy, who was black. But she went to the Catholic High School, and I attended one of the public high schools (the largest one). Judy and I dated brothers......good looking guys who had a band and drove their dad's '62 black Cadillac.

I had both black and white friends in high school, I was in lots of activities, and as I said earlier I had a job in a grocery store. The black kids tended to cluster together, and they always sat together at lunch in the cafeteria. Always. This was a large school (about 1400 kids).

Most of my black friends were nice enough, but there were two sisters - Mary & Geraldine - who gave new meaning to bullying and torment. They were vile. I always sat with the black cluster at lunch, but sometimes my stomach would be in knots because of them. I also had a good friend who was white - Phyllis. One day I simply decided I was NOT going to put up with Mary & Geraldine's BS. So I talked to Phyllis and asked her if I could start sitting with her group at lunch. She said sure.

So, we got our trays, I walked past the black cluster.......a hush .....I mean people's forks stopped mid-air. EVERYBODY stared. And I never sat with Mary & Geraldine again. They came to my locker and demanded to know what was going on. Puhleeeze. :rolleyes: I looked at them as if they were something to be scraped off the bottom of my shoe, closed my locker, said nothing and walked away.

I didn't realize it then, but I was kinda the Rosa Parks of the high school cafeteria. :)
Click to expand...

Yes you were you go Rosa! View attachment 43411
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For God's sake, the U.S. is a bastion of racism. Half the nation fought and died to preserve Black slavery. The remnants of that will echo for quite some time. And it is hard not to notice the color of a person's skin. We have to keep working for the time when the sex and the color of the person next to us does not mean they are unequal to us..
 
fuzzybuddy said:
For God's sake, the U.S. is a bastion of racism. Half the nation fought and died to preserve Black slavery. The remnants of that will echo for quite some time. And it is hard not to notice the color of a person's skin. We have to keep working for the time when the sex and the color of the person next to us does not mean they are unequal to us..
Click to expand...

It certainly won`t happen in our lifetime-not even in our greatgreatgrandchildren`s. But someday,I truly believe,we will all be of a similar skin color. Maybe that is when racism will truly end.
 
Coincidentally,I am also following a thread discussing racism in another group I am in. Specifically,white privilege. And it is getting extremely ugly. Makes me really sad. About 15 of us get together every couple of weeks for lunch and have a blast. I`m afraid there are going to be a few empty chairs at our next getogether.
 

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