Real Scientists Are Concerned That Science Is Dead

dilettante

dilettante

Well-known Member
Location
Michigan
This is a long presentation, 38 minutes or so, so I doubt few will listen to it.

No Scientific Innovation Since the 1920s? Is Academia's 'Publish or Perish' Stifling Science?

Would someone like Einstein flourish in academia's "Publish or Perish"?​
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Gregory Chaitin is a pioneering mathematician and computer scientist, renowned for founding algorithmic information theory. Gregory published his first groundbreaking paper at the age of 15 and has been a key figure at the Institute for Advanced Studies, contributing extensively to the fields of metabiology and complexity theory.​

 

Another:

20th Century’s Greatest Living Scientist | Sir Roger Penrose

Sir Roger Penrose is a renowned physicist and mathematician known for pioneering the theory of twistors and his contributions to differential geometry, which have significantly impacted our understanding of space-time. Roger's work has been instrumental in advancing theories related to general relativity and quantum mechanics, including the Penrose-Hawking singularity theorems.​


This stuff is out there. Sadly few will listen and some of it has been suppressed and can only be found on platforms like X and Rumble.
 
I think they are over reacting. There is plenty of science going on in the world. Alas, there is also plenty of bad science in the field of human health, and lots of politicizing of science. But, I would not trade today's science for all its problems and go back to the science we had in 1920. Too many people would die early if we did that.
 

fuzzybuddy said:
No scientific innovation since the 1920s????
The moon landings, satellites, GPS, computers, TVs, Black holes, the cosmic constant, DNA, gravitational waves, antibiotics, microwave ovens, Dark Matter, cell phones, etc, etc, etc.
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Well...the moon landing is a hot topic...lots of evidence backing it never happened. Considering we did it in 1969 and have had 55 years of tech and innovation, why are we not close to doing it again? Where is the tech? How did all the research and 1000's of hours of tapes disappear? Has anyone figured out how they got that huge heavy buggy up there attached to that little rocket? Has anyone seen in person the lander? Its held together with tape and foil! I mean seriously....

Satellites are not actually what they say, as no object will stay in outer space in a perfect trajectory with no fuel source to maintain its distance from the constant pull of gravity. They never refuel them, so how do they stay there? How do they spin around earth perpetually with no way to keep them in their position? And why do satellite dishes on houses never move? Aimed always at the same location, yet satellites are constantly moving?

Dark matter has never been proven, its a theory. They are just assuming it exists hence the name 'dark' matter, cause they cant see it. They just assume something is there because so much space is unaccounted for.
Gravitational waves were written about long before current science. Also dark matter, gravitational waves and black holes make no difference to anyone or anything as of yet, if ever.

Just as microwave ovens, tvs, computers have done more harm than good. Things worked back in the 70's and 80's perfectly well without them. Only convenience has changed.

As for antibiotics, maybe...but most drugs and anti-biotics/bacterials/virals are dangerous and many drugs have death as a possible side effect.
People need to look up the conference in the US in or around 1910 where the rich (Rockefellers, carnegie et al) where they completely changed the medical system. And not for the better. The biggest change was changing the medicine and drugs from-natural from nature-meaning safe, to petroleum based and therefore dangerous. Read up on it. It changed the way we live and not in a good way.

As for scientific innovation, there have been many improvements, but how measurable and/or beneficial? Renee Caisse comes to mind. Half a million terminal cancer cases cured with indian medicine using 4 herbs/roots/bark/etc. Read up on that or watch the hour special.

Yes things have changed but are they really for the better? My 85 year old Baba would disagree. She reiterates life was better before. My wifes father says the same thing. They have been there for many of these improvements/inventions throughout the past 70+ years, so who would have the better idea of the good or bad! Just in my lifetime, I see and feel that our advancements have caused a lot of degradation of life. Not a lot of these things are for the better. Some yes, but most, no!

Anyway, I have spouted out a lot, and no doubt tickled a few feathers the wrong way! Lol. But thats life!
 
fuzzybuddy said:
No scientific innovation since the 1920s????
The moon landings, satellites, GPS, computers, TVs, Black holes, the cosmic constant, DNA, gravitational waves, antibiotics, microwave ovens, Dark Matter, cell phones, etc, etc, etc.
Click to expand...
You must not have watched the video.

For that matter it's a heavy source of consternation that no evidence has been found of the theoretical confection of Dark Matter. It looks more like a religious hoax every day, one intended to breathe life back into the discredited Big Bang hypothesis from the McCarthy era.
 
About what I expected. Confusing engineering and medicine with science, and bowing to authoritarian orthodoxy. Exactly what the scientists in the videos said.
 
Tazx said:
Well...the moon landing is a hot topic...lots of evidence backing it never happened.
Click to expand...

There really isn't any evidence it didn't happen. There's the usual conspiracy theorists talking silliness - but actual evidence? None I've ever seen.

dilettante said:
For that matter it's a heavy source of consternation that no evidence has been found of the theoretical confection of Dark Matter.
Click to expand...

Correct. They're working on it. We don't have all the answers. We know something is there, we simply can't yet explain it. That makes it nothing like a religion.
 
Science isn't dead, but many of us as never before don't trust "science" anymore. Look at the debacles in the past few years.

I read somewhere that when peer reviewed articles were actually looked at and examined closely awhile back, 70% of the papers came to bogus or unsupported conclusions. But most erroneous papers are never discovered until much later, if ever.

Science is almost like polling. One can get it to say practically anything you want it to. Much of it today is bought and paid for by special interests. I think even the average member of the public senses something wrong.
 
Brookswood said:
I think they are over reacting. There is plenty of science going on in the world. Alas, there is also plenty of bad science in the field of human health, and lots of politicizing of science. But, I would not trade today's science for all its problems and go back to the science we had in 1920. Too many people would die early if we did that.
Click to expand...
I disagree with the premise that scientific innovation ceased early last century.

Without wanting to cite particular examples, I would point to discoveries that have been the result of radio astronomy and aerospace science. Verification of Einstein's theoretical gravity waves, for example, was only possible due to technological advances long after his death.
 
The scientist in the OP's link may be trying to criticize the way a FEW areas of science ideas are being unfairly evaluated in public and science peer reviewed arenas but the title for the link greatly overgeneralizes with an obvious agenda to criticize science generally. Probably in order to better manipulate the dominant masses of relatively science ignorants to swallow various inane conspiracy stories (Like the "We didn't land on the Moon", and Flat Earth nonsense.)

There will always be some controversial hypotheses and theories, especially those on the cutting edge, that are relatively ignored and criticized until with credible science research they convince educated others enough to overcome hysteresis of former ideas. Most geology scientists didn't believe in plate tectonics either with continental drift until the 1950s even though the theory had been proposed decades earlier. That is how science works. It takes time. Among my own science interests, that is what has been occurring with panspermia, consciousness theories, and cosmology.
 
ChiroDoc said:
Science isn't dead, but many of us as never before don't trust "science" anymore. Look at the debacles in the past few years.

I read somewhere that when peer reviewed articles were actually looked at and examined closely awhile back, 70% of the papers came to bogus or unsupported conclusions. But most erroneous papers are never discovered until much later, if ever.

Science is almost like polling. One can get it to say practically anything you want it to. Much of it today is bought and paid for by special interests. I think even the average member of the public senses something wrong.
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Your second paragraph follows your third - if you can submit anything, then a lot will be nonsense.

But honestly, there's nothing wrong with that - it's all by design. Submitting a scientific paper isn't the be-all and end-all of science. Others have to pick it up, run it back, confirm results. If that's not done, then it's insignificant. Peer review is the bedrock of science, and if that peer review hasn't happened, then nothing written is confirmed.
 
VaughanJB said:
There really isn't any evidence it didn't happen. There's the usual conspiracy theorists talking silliness - but actual evidence? None I've ever seen.



Correct. They're working on it. We don't have all the answers. We know something is there, we simply can't yet explain it. That makes it nothing like a religion.
Click to expand...
There actually isn't any evidence they did land on the moon. The moon lander was an impossibility according to modern day scientists. The weight alone would have prohibited. The actions of the people on the moon do not lend credibility to the belief either. then the entire fact that we have even been close since then. Even with the massive advancements in tech. You don't think we would have gone back many many times? And how do you lose the tech, documents, videos of the supposedly greatest day in US and world history. No, you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to doubt it.

The term conspiracy theorist is such a wasted term. Leonardo Da Vinci was labelled a crazy person for many of the things he spouted. His drawings and inventions were way ahead of is time, and may we have achieved. I actually think the term was coined to label free thinkers or people who question things in this way to use a derogatory term.

Many 'conspiracy theories' have come true or are beyond argument. It started with the gulf of Tonkin incident, then went to Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, 9/11, covid and even the last US election.
Us military in Vietnam allowed its ship to be hit and sailors killed to enter a war. FOIA docs prove it. But those who said that years ago were CT's. Kuwait wasn't about anything other than 1 nation wanting to create its own oil standard, and invaded by another to prevent it. It wasn't anything other than that. Iraq...NEVER any weapons of mass destruction. Never! I spent 8 months there with NATO, no WMD's. But any CT's who said that were crazy!

Afghanistan, what a joke. Did 3 tours there in many diff regions, in the caves and villages, and from what I saw and experienced, ha, pathetic attempt. Osama Bin Laden was dead long ago. Villagers on the ground said he was gone years ago. And if you think men in the caves training on monkey bars and shooting goats planned 9/11, well....all hope is lost.

9/11, nope. Not taken down by airplanes. Not even close. Anti aircraft design building, and planes made of aluminum would never have done anything to those buildings. Take a look when an airliner hits a airport light pole or another wing. Total destruction of the wing. Videos of floors blowing out before the collapse, building 7 (lol what a joke), a complete perfect passport found on the ground. Where does it end?

Covid, well under oath Fauci and others admitted masks don't work at all (any military or construction worker would tell you that), the shots did nothing to prevent catching it, and did nothing to stop the spread, and no such thing as asymptomatic. Tell me how a person who looks good, feels good, feels no effects at all, has no idea they have something is now asymptomatic?SO using that logic, you have to prove to me you don't have aids or cancer or herpes before I let you in my store! Lol! Where does it end? Maybe covid flu is real, maybe not, but that way it was done was lies and there is mountains of evidence to prove it.

The 2020 US election was fraud clearly. I am not into politics or an american, so I don't care, but everyone knows it. Maybe Biden got some votes, but it was fraught with fraud. Bags of ballots in ditches, videos of people filling out multiple ballots, many states court cases admitted fraud...then the fact he got more votes than Obama, and lost all the key states. C'mon.


It's not called conspiracy theorists if most of what they say is true or at the very least questionable. It's something we were taught as children, and something children always do. Ask questions. If the answers seem off or unreasonable, then question more. The basics of Philosophy.

What gets me going is if you believe something as it is laid out, you are considered normal or a believer, but if you question something you are a derogatory term such as a conspiracy theorist! I am sure all the great inventors over time that had grand ideas but were laughed at would disagree as well!
 
Tazx said:
Well...the moon landing is a hot topic...lots of evidence backing it never happened. Considering we did it in 1969 and have had 55 years of tech and innovation, why are we not close to doing it again? Where is the tech? How did all the research and 1000's of hours of tapes disappear? Has anyone figured out how they got that huge heavy buggy up there attached to that little rocket? Has anyone seen in person the lander? Its held together with tape and foil! I mean seriously....
Click to expand...
Wait - are you saying you believe in the moon?
 
What's really amazing is not that we faked the moon landing in 1969 but that we did it five more times until 1972. We even faked a failed moon landing so that Ron Howard could make Apollo 13.

By the way, no U.S. ships were hit in the Tonkin Gulf incident (except for a single bullet that hit the U.S.S. Maddox) and we never said they were. There were no U.S. casualties. We did lie shamefully about a second, fabricated incident to provide a pretext for expanding the Vietnam War. We were the fools in that case. That's not conspiracy theory, just historical fact.

You're conflating the two gulf wars. The whole WMD question was the pretext for the second gulf war, not the first.

9/11 -- oh, wow. I suppose the Jews did it?

I could go on, but won't.
 
Tazx said:
Where is the evidence? Do you have proof? Is there any? Oh right it was on TV, so that must mean it happened.
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Well, there's the hundreds of kilograms of moon rocks, and the fact that someone with a good telescope can still see debris and marks from the landings. But maybe you're right, the 400,000 people who worked on the moon landings have been keeping the secret right to their graves.
 
January said:
Oh right - the moon landing was fake, the US election was stolen, everything about Covid is a fraud, 9/11 was a fake......

but you are not a conspiracy theorist - however did I get that idea? :unsure:
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You are incorrect. I am a theorist. Ideas that most people do not understand are labelled conspiracy. String theory is a theory. Gravity is a theory. Both the big bang and creationism are theories. Why may I ask are not a religious people not conspiracy theorists? There is no proof of god or jesus or anything of the sort. But yet 50 percent of the world think they are right. How is it possible that creating only 2 people -Adam and Eve- can create not only 8 billion people, but peoples of different genetics, color, size, etc? The only evidence there is to all of this is the council of Nicea where the religious leaders at the time agreed which books were to be allowed into the bible. Again who are they?

Then the other 50 percent think evolution and the big bang are real. Again with no evidence that we all came from a explosion anywhere from 4-10 billion years ago, (matter created out of nothing-which science says is impossible) somehow our pile of debris formed a ball in just the right location from our sun-that somehow came together in just the right place in our universe, created electricity, oxygen, nitrogen, carbon and others, then we evolved/crawled out of electrified mud puddle with the right amount of oxygen, and viola all the years later here we are today! All of this info comes from papers and books written by philosophers, scientists and so on.

So which is it? Who are the conspiracy theorists? Group A or B? Which story is more plausible? Which 'books' are correct? To be honest neither sound very authentic.

But again as has been said many times, you believe what you will, and I will I.
 
Irishdude said:
Well, there's the hundreds of kilograms of moon rocks, and the fact that someone with a good telescope can still see debris and marks from the landings. But maybe you're right, the 400,000 people who worked on the moon landings have been keeping the secret right to their graves.
Click to expand...
Lol, 100's of kilos! I can get rocks from northern Greenland that have vastly different geological appearance than anything in the US or Canada and say I got them from Antarctica! How would you prove otherwise?
And of the million people that work at amazon worldwide, how many know whats going on in the company? 5, 10, maybe 25? Very easy to segment information.
 

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