Religion in the classroom. A question.

[Warrigal]

Thank you. In the U.S. the syllabus is a big part of the problem today --in my view.

Do you have a national curriculum, put together by representatives of all the states? We have had such a document for at least 20 years now. It comes with teaching/learning outcomes expected but leaves a degree of flexibility for the class room teacher.

One result of this national document is that children whose parents move from state to state do not have their education experience fragmented, requiring them to sit through lessons they have already learned or forced to repeat a year because they have missed out on vital curriculum.

By the way, good syllabus documents must be grounded in the educational needs of children and provide support the teachers who are asked to deliver it. It should not be a toy for every parent's idea of what they want included or excluded, and politicians need to butt right out. Their job is to provide the necessary money for teaching staff training and for evaluation/assessment of the curriculum after implementation.

 

[gruntlabor]

By the way, good syllabus documents must be grounded in the educational needs of children and provide support the teachers who are asked to deliver it. It should not be a toy for every parent's idea of what they want included or excluded, and politicians need to butt right out. Their job is to provide the necessary money for teaching staff training and for evaluation/assessment of the curriculum after implementation.

I think you trivialize and ridicule the role of parents whose 20-year duty it is to oversee the welfare of their children.

 

[Warrigal]

I think you trivialize and ridicule the role of parents whose 20-year duty it is to oversee the welfare of their children.

I do not. I am a mother, grandmother and great grandmother first and foremost, but curriculum design and implementation is best left to academics. Politicians will always find something to use to fire up the public, especially when seeking office. They are shopping for headlines. Parents' needs for their children must be taken into account, including minority situations but that should take place at the school level after the syllabus has been through rigorous processes before publication. Even then, written submissions could still be effective when the curriculum is, as it should be, reviewed.

I ask you what role you think should be given to parents regarding curriculum design and implementation? If a parent demands that children learn how to do long division using pencil and paper because that is how he/she was taught, should that demand be acquiesced to? If a parent wants the literature syllabus to exclude anything written since 1901, because they believe that anything written later, such as Huxley's Brave New World or Catch 22, is too disturbing to young minds, how seriously should their request be taken?

Serious contributions from parent bodies should be examined. The strength and weaknesses of their cases should be tested. Decisions are not, and should not, be decided at PT meetings, nor by bullying school principals. The media is the last body that should be given any control over education at any level, but criticism is OK. It is what the media exists for, but inflammatory headlines are only written to inflate subscription numbers.

Thanks, @gruntlabor for engaging with me on this issue. I realise that the Australian and US education systems are very different. What I have written really only applies to Australia but there could be some overlap with USA.

 

[dilettante]

Hour and a half interview in depth:

Christina Hoff Sommers: Schools Are Hostile to Boys' Instincts

I sat down with Christina Hoff Sommers, feminist philosopher and author of “The War Against Boys,” to discuss the growing struggles of boys in a culture increasingly dictated by a toxic strain of Marxist feminism. Christina explains how, now that institutional barriers to female opportunity have all but disappeared, the feminist movement has become dominated by a faction that sees the world as a zero-sum game and therefore is fundamentally opposed to the flourishing of boys and men. Schools, in particular, systematically neglect boys and pathologize their natural instincts, while elevating the psychological and behavioral tendencies of girls as inherently morally superior. Christina breaks down how this imbalance is shaping a generation of young men who are falling behind not only relative to their female peers but also in absolute historic terms.​

For all we know this demoralization and gaslighting shifting of blame onto students and their peers may be a factor in many school shootings. But in any case this is a terribly bad sign for the direction of society.

 

[seadoug]

I attended a Southern Baptist high school. We had Bible classes, so I've read all of it. We also had Chapel every Wednesday with a visiting minister who would make us feel like we all needed to repent. There was never a positive message. There was so much hatred and hypocrisy in the school. The minister's son was the student most often in the principle's office for drugs.

I've seen it up close, so IMO there is no need for any religious appropriation in public schools. I'm all for keeping church and state separate.

 

[seadoug]

Hour and a half interview in depth:

Christina Hoff Sommers: Schools Are Hostile to Boys' Instincts

I sat down with Christina Hoff Sommers, feminist philosopher and author of “The War Against Boys,” to discuss the growing struggles of boys in a culture increasingly dictated by a toxic strain of Marxist feminism. Christina explains how, now that institutional barriers to female opportunity have all but disappeared, the feminist movement has become dominated by a faction that sees the world as a zero-sum game and therefore is fundamentally opposed to the flourishing of boys and men. Schools, in particular, systematically neglect boys and pathologize their natural instincts, while elevating the psychological and behavioral tendencies of girls as inherently morally superior. Christina breaks down how this imbalance is shaping a generation of young men who are falling behind not only relative to their female peers but also in absolute historic terms.​

For all we know this demoralization and gaslighting shifting of blame onto students and their peers may be a factor in many school shootings. But in any case this is a terribly bad sign for the direction of society.

Good try. I would never watch an hour and a half video, but I did watch clips.

"Marxist Feminism"? The reason young men are marginalized these days is because 56% of college graduates are women and these guys who choose to sit at home and play video games all day and complain because they are still virgins refuse to take control of their lives. And my nephew is one. He is still living at home at 24 y/o. They would rather blame "the system" than their lack of ambition. Yes, young women swipe right on guys who are good-looking and prosperous but who wouldn't?

I'm frankly sick of these Incels who feel they have been "left behind" but choose to do nothing about it. I know at least one of my nieces is engaged to one of these guys who could be considered a "Marxist Feminist" and I'm happy for her. They are making a fortune in their jobs in IT and I'm sure they will never have any money issues because he doesn't sit on his ass whining about how opportunity has passed him by.

This is all just rationalization for how apathetic today's young men have become.

 

[oscash]

When my father was a young man in the army overseas, all of his unit were expected to attend a church service on a Sunday. One man in particular said he was not of that faith and wanted to be excused. The captain asked him, "What religion are you?", and he replied, "Burning Bush Sir", the captain immediately replied, "I don't care if you were a Burning Bush or a House on Fire, you are attending Church". and he was frog-marched into the Church. My father loved telling that story. He had a million stories to tell.

 

[gruntlabor]

I ask you what role you think should be given to parents regarding curriculum design and implementation? If a parent demands that children learn how to do long division using pencil and paper because that is how he/she was taught, should that demand be acquiesced to? If a parent wants the literature syllabus to exclude anything written since 1901, because they believe that anything written later, such as Huxley's Brave New World or Catch 22, is too disturbing to young minds, how seriously should their request be taken?

Serious contributions from parent bodies should be examined. The strength and weaknesses of their cases should be tested. Decisions are not, and should not, be decided at PT meetings, nor by bullying school principals. The media is the last body that should be given any control over education at any level, but criticism is OK. It is what the media exists for, but inflammatory headlines are only written to inflate subscription numbers.

Thanks, @gruntlabor for engaging with me on this issue. I realise that the Australian and US education systems are very different. What I have written really only applies to Australia but there could be some overlap with USA.

It is not a question of what role parents should play. Of course it is the job of educators to plan the technical aspects of education. That is what you folks are for. It is a question of your success or failure. In the U.S., Education has failed miserably.
And I thank you, Warrigal, for your patience with me.

 

[Warrigal]

It is not a question of what role parents should play. Of course it is the job of educators to plan the technical aspects of education. That is what you folks are for. It is a question of your success or failure. In the U.S., Education has failed miserably.
And I thank you, Warrigal, for your patience with me.

We have national competency tests in Maths and English for all children in years 3, 5, 7 and 9 every year. The results are published for the school as a whole, and comparisons between schools can easily be made. Also, the school and the parents get the results per child. The idea is that teaching can then be directed towards overcoming any deficits before a child falls too far behind.

It's a long way from a perfect system and schools have been known to manipulate results by suggesting that the weaker students stay home on test day. This is so unprofessional, but the prestigious schools are competing with each other for fee paying enrolments.