Russia/Putin prepping for a 3 front attack on Ukraine

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WhatInThe

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Russia/Putin apparently setting the stage for a 3 pronged attack on Ukraine basically surrounding it.

https://news.yahoo.com/putin-secret-attack-plan-ukrainian-094858834.html

He'll be using mercenaries and new recruits.Multi front wars can drag down a military. He had trouble with his initial attack and there have been complaints from draftees of little or no training. But this is a classic Russian tact-try to over whelm the enemy during the initial attack. During the first Cold War it was thought if you survive the first week you'll survive the war because they don't have the logistics for a prolonged conflict which has proven to be true several times.

It sounds ominous but he has logistic trouble including running out of ammunition like artillery and has trouble maintaining equipment including air and artillery. Ukraine not sitting pretty either. This will just prolong the conflict. And theoretically if someone wants to try something in Russia Putin is probably relying on low on military support to protect him being he's already had to bring back retired generals. And approval for war in Russia is at 23%.
 

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Germany is holding up a deal that would supply Ukraine with tanks, which they desperately need. Germany is probably worried about their oil and gas being shut off from Russia, so they don't want to offend Putin.

Putin went on the same kind of rampage in Aleppo, what was that, 15 years ago? We did very little to try to stop him and our last president had a love affair with him, so he probably thought he had a green like to do the same with Ukraine.
 
SeniorBen said:
Germany is holding up a deal that would supply Ukraine with tanks, which they desperately need. Germany is probably worried about their oil and gas being shut off from Russia, so they don't want to offend Putin.

Putin went on the same kind of rampage in Aleppo, what was that, 15 years ago? We did very little to try to stop him and our last president had a love affair with him, so he probably thought he had a green like to do the same with Ukraine.
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That's part of it. But some generals think it would take too long to train Ukrainians how to use and maintain them. Using tanks en masse require large scale training and not just sending a few Ukraine reps to a class. Look at the trouble the Russians are having and part of that is not having fought a large scale war in decades. Same would happen to the Ukrainians.

I thought they were modifying old Russian T-60s. At least they have more familiarity with Russian military equipment & vehicles.

Best bet now is send them anti armor weapons because that means they can slow them down or even stop attacks because they can mess with reinenforcements and supplies being transported to the front. The slow pace of progress is dragging on the Russian military and frustration might lead to regime change or more calls for a peace.
 

SeniorBen said:
Germany is holding up a deal that would supply Ukraine with tanks, which they desperately need. Germany is probably worried about their oil and gas being shut off from Russia, so they don't want to offend Putin.
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Part of what is holding the tanks up is Germany's insistence that the US supply tanks also. I think they will if we do. Problem with the US tanks is they are too expensive to maintain, and too difficult to operate without extensive training, or so our defense people say.

Germany is getting close to energy independence from Russia, some are claiming they already are.

I suspect the tanks will be given... after a bit more diplomacy.

I have mixed feelings about this, it will widen the war, and I am not sure it will lead to Ukrainian victory. On the other hand I hate to see allowing the Russians to stay unchallenged. An awful war, as all are.
 
They have been sending/modifying old Soviet era tanks for Ukraine. Including the t-72s which was top of the line during the Cold War.

https://www.defensenews.com/pentago...o-dutch-to-refurbish-czech-tanks-for-ukraine/

https://tankhistoria.com/modern-day/m-55s/

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-refurbish-45-soviet-era-t-72-tanks-ukraine-2022-11

Setting the diplomatic and lack of training issues aside isn't a risk to send top tier weapons that could captured, studied and/or turned against them.

The Ukrainians have had success by modifying old Soviet era tanks, weapons and civilian drones. Necessity is the mother of all invention.
 
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Looks like Ukraine is going to be getting the tanks...

I worry about what would happen if Russia attached the trains bringing these into Ukraine... before they get there. I would be hard to argue that wasn't a legitimate response, well no more or less so than any of Russia's war making in the Ukraine anyway.

Anyone know how these will get in?
 
Yes there absolutely could be escalation if not incentive for Russia to fight even harder over the next few months because the tanks have to get there, personal trained and equiped.

To top it they now must use NATO caliber tank ammunition. There is a whole of logistics and support functions that must accompany anything mechanical or technical. Until they are out of country the equipment or those crews are not safe.

Ukraine already had to have NATO artillery pieces serviced out of country which is a simpler weapon. What happens when engine and track maintenance come into play.
 
SeniorBen said:
Germany is holding up a deal that would supply Ukraine with tanks, which they desperately need. Germany is probably worried about their oil and gas being shut off from Russia, so they don't want to offend Putin.

Putin went on the same kind of rampage in Aleppo, what was that, 15 years ago? We did very little to try to stop him and our last president had a love affair with him, so he probably thought he had a green like to do the same with Ukraine.
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The US just sent a slew of Bradleys to Ukraine. They would have been sent sooner but we insisted on training some UA troops on how to use and how to maintain them first. Bradleys are our newest tanks but we call them armored fighting vehicles (AFVs) because they don't have tracks. The UA had concerns about that because of the Ukrainian mud, but they found out the US wasn't kidding when they said Bradley could do any surface but the ocean surface.
 
Strange how there has been no consideration of diplomacy. The West insist that escalation is the only answer. I wonder if this then gives Russia the excuse to drop THE bomb on Kyiv?
 
Bradley Armored Vehicles have lighter armor and smaller guns than tanks, and they also function as personnel carriers. Both ride on tracks.
1200px-LaunchingTOWmissile..jpg
 
Nosy Bee-54 said:
Strange how there has been no consideration of diplomacy. The West insist that escalation is the only answer. I wonder if this then gives Russia the excuse to drop THE bomb on Kyiv?
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Seriously?

Ukraine used diplomacy for like 20 years. Putin signed mutually friendly agreements, and immediately violated every single one of them. What do you think they could work out at this point? If you give Putin the Crimea, he'll take the whole eastern region of Ukraine. That's been proven. There's no being diplomatic with Putin, ever, under any circumstances.

And the US is involved because we signed an agreement over a decade ago to protect its borders. The US doesn't want escalation, but thanks to Putin, it can't be avoided.
 
Joe Biden has approved sending 31 M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, a significant escalation in the US effort to counter Russian aggression as international reluctance to send tanks to the battlefront falls away.

Scholz confirmed that Germany will initially supply 14 Leopard 2 tanks along with ammunition and logistical and maintenance support. He said in a statement: “This decision follows our well-known line of supporting Ukraine to the best of our ability. We are acting in a closely coordinated manner internationally.”

Germany will also approve other European countries supplying German-made Leopard 2 tanks from their own stock. Poland has requested approval to send some of its Leopards to Ukraine.

Norway also announced that it will send Leopard 2 battle tanks to Ukraine as part of Western aid. Defence minister Bjørn Arild Gram said in an interview with Norwegian public television NRK: “Norway and the government support the donation of battle tanks to Ukraine. Norway will take part.” He did not specify how many would be sent.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/25/us-m1-abrams-biden-tanks-ukraine-russia-war
 
SeniorBen said:
Joe Biden has approved sending 31 M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, a significant escalation in the US effort to counter Russian aggression as international reluctance to send tanks to the battlefront falls away.

Scholz confirmed that Germany will initially supply 14 Leopard 2 tanks along with ammunition and logistical and maintenance support. He said in a statement: “This decision follows our well-known line of supporting Ukraine to the best of our ability. We are acting in a closely coordinated manner internationally.”

Germany will also approve other European countries supplying German-made Leopard 2 tanks from their own stock. Poland has requested approval to send some of its Leopards to Ukraine.

Norway also announced that it will send Leopard 2 battle tanks to Ukraine as part of Western aid. Defence minister Bjørn Arild Gram said in an interview with Norwegian public television NRK: “Norway and the government support the donation of battle tanks to Ukraine. Norway will take part.” He did not specify how many would be sent.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/25/us-m1-abrams-biden-tanks-ukraine-russia-war
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Presidential approval is always followed with assessment by our military 5-⭐ guys, which means delays. Our military will probably send the Abrams to a few European countries so Ukrainian troops can get training in those countries, and then they can take the Abrams home. Like they did with the Bradleys.

My only point is, this won't happen for a few months or so. But maybe after being trained for Bradleys, it will only be a matter of weeks. That would be awesome!
 
Alligatorob said:
Looks like Ukraine is going to be getting the tanks...

I worry about what would happen if Russia attached the trains bringing these into Ukraine... before they get there. I would be hard to argue that wasn't a legitimate response, well no more or less so than any of Russia's war making in the Ukraine anyway.

Anyone know how these will get in?
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The Bradley tanks arrived in Ukraine yesterday, I think.... arrived by train. No problems encountered.
 
WhatInThe said:
Yes there absolutely could be escalation if not incentive for Russia to fight even harder over the next few months because the tanks have to get there, personal trained and equiped.

To top it they now must use NATO caliber tank ammunition. There is a whole of logistics and support functions that must accompany anything mechanical or technical. Until they are out of country the equipment or those crews are not safe.

Ukraine already had to have NATO artillery pieces serviced out of country which is a simpler weapon. What happens when engine and track maintenance come into play.
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Our military sends tanks and stuff like air-defense systems to a few European countries so Ukrainian troops can get training in those countries, and then take the equipment home. The US sends ammunition along with the equipment, but not on the same transports.
 
Powerful Neocons, other military industrial complex warmongers, and their dominant media, for the sake of decades old hatreds, leading the world towards doomsday.

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/russia-ukraine-and-the-u-s-europe.74345/#post-2216300

The war in Ukraine is the culmination of a 30-year project of the American neoconservative movement. The B Administration is packed with the same neocons who championed the US wars of choice in Serbia (1999), Afghanistan (2001), Iraq (2003), Syria (2011), Libya (2011), and who did so much to provoke Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The neocon track record is one of unmitigated disaster, yet B has staffed his team with neocons. As a result, B is steering Ukraine, the US, and the European Union towards yet another geopolitical debacle. If Europe has any insight, it will separate itself from these US foreign policy debacles.

https://www.seniorforums.com/thread...-a-nuclear-conflict.75348/page-6#post-2256647

https://www.seniorforums.com/thread...-russias-intentions.69900/page-2#post-2052704
 
Follow the money! Not only by the military industrial complex but also corruption in the Ukrainian government. Lots on both sides are pocketing billion$.
 
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