Seems women are becoming less and less dependent on men

dseag2 said:
Before I post, let me start by saying that I loved my father and he was a wonderful human being...

However, he came from an era when women were to stay home, do the housekeeping and take care of the children. He was established in business at 35 y/o when he married my mother, who had no career, at 25 y/o. He always insisted she not work, and he certainly provided for us as a family. However, since my mother was a beautiful lady and much younger he had certain high expectations for her in business and social situations. She always had to look her best. This all fell apart as she got older and felt she could no longer meet those standards. She went into severe depression and wouldn't leave her home for 4 years prior to his passing away. She simply felt like she wasn't living up to her part of the bargain.

When he did pass away, my mother was completely lost because she had always been "his wife and my mother". However, through encouragement she became empowered and independent when she realized she was on her own, was not beholden to anyone and could make her own decisions. She once again became very social and really flourished in the 22 years on her own. There was no pressure on her part to be anyone other than who she was.

So, that is the long way of saying I'm glad the most recent generations are contributing equally and it is great that women are becoming less dependent upon men. (y)
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I can see the benefits of women being able to actualize themselves by volunteering or having employment outside of the home, but who takes care of the children?

I was devastated when I went from being the ideal woman of the 1950s to "just a housewife". And in no time, our freedom to stay home and care for our families was ripped from us as men took the freedom they thought women's liberation gave them. That is the freedom to dump all family responsibility and leave her stuck with the children.

The Soviet Union was the first to "Liberate women". The divorce and abortion rates soared, then increasingly women and children fell below the level of poverty. Often these women supported their husbands while their husband got their education, and once educated the men walked away. The women did not get their educations because between having to support their families and care for them too, they did not have the time and energy to get their educations. We can add to the Societ Union experience, increasingly women and children are involved in violence and crime both as victims and perpetrators. And more than one young man has taken out his anger by killing his family and then teachers and children in a school.

Women's liberation has not been just a good thing. There are also disturbing consequences. A high abortion rate is one of those consequences.
 

morgan said:
A good husband makes a good wife. Yep, it takes two to tango as the saying goes. When I first met my wife she was in overalls with no make up, her head under the bonnet of a car fixing the engine. I wanted to marry her there and then. Next time I met her, she was wearing a frilly summer dress, skin glowing and still no make up. I was determined to marry her and pursued tirelessly. Been married for 50 years and when I think I am beginning to know the extent of her independence, she comes up with another surprise!
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As it should be, good sentiments and approach all round I'd say, (and I'm guessing you wouldn't say you never fell out, but that if you did/do its not going to detail the whole project! :). ).
 
S
dseag2 said:
Before I post, let me start by saying that I loved my father and he was a wonderful human being...

However, he came from an era when women were to stay home, do the housekeeping and take care of the children. He was established in business at 35 y/o when he ........
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Thank you for sharing (y) That is a familiar story of the history of quite a few of that generation. Men are not always to be faulted because their role models were their own fathers' similar behavior. There were also practical reasons and as time marches on conditions changed and we could make different choices.
 

Judycat said:
They are nice company and I'll work with them if they need help, doesn't matter how dirty the job. It's when they think they know everything and begin to impose their will on me that I feel I can do fine without them. I don't like them thinking their BS will fly with me either. If you did something wrong, tell me, don't wait until the police call telling me you've been kiting checks all over three counties. That's just stupid knucklehead. :rolleyes:
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It takes all kinds. right? :D I agree with all you said!
 
I've referred already on this thread to my mother, and her views on men, and how much a woman might wish to, (or have to), depend on them.
Referring to my father and what he wanted (I'd suggest, though its only my opinion of course!),..., my dad was a strong man both physically in his time, as he had to be growing up on a farm pre-WWII, when there was little enough mechanisation, and mentally he was the stronger of my parents, at least in most things for most of his life. My mother was maybe brighter academically, but did have a number of nervous breakdowns for my dad to cope with, (though luckily "she came roaring back like a lion each time"!).

My mothers aspirations were of course very different to those of today, that goes almost without question, though my dad, adaptable and sociable as he was, and who often questioned "whether he was born too soon", missing out on the swinging sixties etc., but ultimately he decreed he didn't think he'd have liked to have been born a man in more modern times.

For all those championing women being more free to do whatever they want, there are bound to be some downsides somewhere, (and mentioning my daughter very briefly and only the once on this thread I promise you, just to put my own views in context, I did try to instill high ambition in my child's mind to an extent at a fairly early age, though I saw it as much about trying to build her confidence, and tell her how good I thought she was).
 
Bella said:
Yes, men are sperm donors and, of course, when women go to a sperm bank they have to pay big bucks for daddy sauce. We are discussing women becoming less dependent on men in this thread, right? My point is that women can choose to independently conceive a child without becoming involved in a relationship. :)

Bella ✌️
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Yeah, I know.
 
Vida May said:
All animals compete for sexual partners. It is nature's way of improving the next generation. Being able to provide well is very important to offspring that are dependent on parents.

Now cuckoo bird males do not help with building a nest or feeding the offspring so the female lays her eggs in other birds' nests and the father does not have to prove himself as a potential father. Unlike seagulls that must prove themselves before mating. First, the male seagull must claim and defend territory. The female must prove she too will fight for territory and the male will drive her off as he drives males away, until she mimics a baby wanting to be fed. Then the male must let her onto his territory and he must fly off and bring her back a fish, proving he will help feed the baby. While he is gone getting the fish, she must defend the property and if she fails or if he fails to bring her a fish they do not build a nest and do not have sex.

Personally, I think it is better to be like seagulls than cuckoo birds.
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True, some men are animals.
 
It’s great that women now have choices on how to live their lives. I did mine in stages first having kids and staying home and then going to college when my youngest went to school and then a career. I have also had 3 careers which were social worker, vocational rehabilitation counselor and then teaching at the college level part time in retirement.

I love men as I have been married 3 times with 2 long term of 22 years each. A good marriage is the best but a bad marriage the worst. I am now enjoying being alone and having no one to take care of besides myself and the dogs. I also have 3 sons that I love.
 
Vida May said:
And in no time, our freedom to stay home and care for our families was ripped from us as men took the freedom they thought women's liberation gave them.
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And for all the ranting about 'choices,' what it comes down to is there is really no element of 'choice' when only one option is considered valid.
(although I wouldn't necessarily blame men entirely for this).
 
if id been dependent on men, or the men in my life...id have been gone a long time ago.

if something got done i had to get it done. they were kind clean decent but...idk, they lacked push....idk,
still thinking on that one.
 
Men are physically stronger than women. (If they're healthy.) Who needs a man? I do. Lots of snow shoveling up here and it's great how men know what's wrong with the car, the electricity, the plumbing. 😊 It's no longer popular to say so but men have their uses. I love how their brains are just wired differently from women's when it comes to fixing things.
 
Before I was married I received a scholarship to university to become a teacher. Mum thought this was an excellent idea because later in life, if I were to be widowed, I would be able to return to work and have a decent income to support my children. She quoted a woman she knew whose husband died suddenly and who was back in the classroom quite soon after.

Mum was right but widowhood is not the only situation where financial independence very valuable. Having the capacity for independence is important and knowing it brings some balance to the male/female relationship. When I was at home caring for our very young children I did not feel like an equal partner in our marriage. I resented having to account for every dollar that I spent but much of that was in my mind only. I asked for nothing because I felt I had no right to do so. I was quite depressed but did not know it.

Once I returned to teaching my depression vanished and I became my true self again. I was valued at work for my contribution and the money I earned helped me to feel like an equal partner in the marriage. I realise now that there were many women of my generation who were stay at home mums whose smiles were hiding unhappiness with their role.

Another problem with being a woman who is totally dependent on a man for financial support is the reality that they can be discarded in middle age and replaced with a younger, more attractive woman who is better able to be an asset to a man intent of climbing the business ladder of success. It happened to some loyal wives that I have known. They didn't see it coming and were devastated.

Mum didn't mention this possibility but she was right about having at least the potential to be independent. I have made sure that my daughter and grand daughters have the insurance of self sufficiency should they ever need it. However, in today's economic environment their income is not really a luxury. Young couples today need two incomes to survive and have anything like a comfortable life. Husband and wife are interdependent by necessity.
 
JaniceM said:
And for all the ranting about 'choices,' what it comes down to is there is really no element of 'choice' when only one option is considered valid.
(although I wouldn't necessarily blame men entirely for this).
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That is a good point, and although many women juggle all kinds of jobs and responsibilities, it doesn't take too much imagination to believe some may find themselves slipping up, or maybe missing out somewhere.
You can think of missing out on some early years experiences with your children because whatever milestone they've reached was whilst they were in nurseries or other paid for child care, (not to mention where mum feels too stressed to make the most of those years with their children when they are with them).
 
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