Shooting In Pennsylvania (long story)

izzy said:
Your right cultural differences are indeed deeply ingrained sometimes ie the idea that someone can buy a gun before they are allowed to purchase alcohol seems absolutely crazy to me.
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Indeed alcohol and guns are not a good mix but would suggest less damage is likely to be done by an angry person with a bottle of vodka than an angry person with a gun.
 
Mental illnesses are health conditions involving changes in emotion, thinking or behavior (or a combination of these). Mental illnesses are associated with distress and/or problems functioning in social, work or family activities.

Mental health is the foundation for emotions, thinking, communication, learning, resilience and self-esteem. Mental health is also key to relationships, personal and emotional well-being and contributing to community or society.

Many people who have a mental illness do not want to talk about it. But mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of! It is a medical condition, just like heart disease or diabetes. And mental health conditions are treatable. We are continually expanding our understanding of how the human brain works, and treatments are available to help people successfully manage mental health conditions.

Mental illness does not discriminate; it can affect anyone regardless of your age, gender, geography, income, social status, race/ethnicity, religion/spirituality, sexual orientation, background or other aspect of cultural identity. While mental illness can occur at any age, three-fourths of all mental illness begins by age 24.

Mental illnesses take many forms. Some are mild and only interfere in limited ways with daily life, such as certain phobias (abnormal fears). Other mental health conditions are so severe that a person may need care in a hospital.

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911 - I’m so sorry you and your past associate have been seriously affected by this horrific event and hope you get the help you need and deserve. I chose not to watch the video. Your description of the event was enough for me. I’m so happy that we have neighbours that help with the snow. What needless killings.
 
izzy said:
And the reason is... ????
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The history goes back to the beginnings of our country. One thing to keep in mind is that all this violence using weapons is a fairly recent situation. All the time I was growing up, folks used weapons for sport, not on each other except within the criminal community. We have discussed this in other threads at length. You can also google that history, the arguments for and against gun control, and anything else related.

Tony
 
izzy said:
Thanks I just had to google sneaky Pete. I'm from the uk so not familiar with the term. From experience a pernod and black can be pretty deadly too but so nice 🙃
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Yes izzy google can be a good friend. Too bad google wasn't friendly enough to be around in the 70's when I guzzled a Guinness Stout and woke up looking at the ceiling of a pub. lol.
 
tbeltrans said:
911,

I do understand what you are talking about, though my own experiences were in Vietnam. There is another person in this forum who butted into a conversation between two Vietnam veterans in the military sub-forum, complaining that Vietnam veterans always have to talk about the war when veterans of other wars before and after Vietnam, "just shut up about it and do their job". He went on to say that we "lost that war". When I, and the two vets who were having the conversation corrected him on his history and the fact that other veterans do, in fact, talk about their respective wars, he never responded. We don't tell war stories (unless possibly when inebriated...), but we do discuss Vietnam in general with other Vietnam vets and the military sub-forum here is a place for that.

With this thread, I sincerely hope this guy doesn't come in here and lay into you talking about this situation. These things happen. They are very real, and they never go away in one's mind. A means of dealing with it at times can be to talk to others who have had similar life experiences in one form or another, and having somebody butt in and try to shut that down is just downright rude and incredibly callous. I know that if this had been in person, the guy who butted in would not be walking away. The anonymity of the internet saved his ass.

I feel in sympathy for you and your friend in this situation. For you, all the memories from your work life come alive with renewed freshness. For your friend, this is probably the first of many such memories he will collect, especially in our increasingly violent country. Take care and share whenever you need to. Personally, I am glad you are here and I thank you for your service to your community.

Tony
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Here is a link to that thread about Vietnam that I was referring to. Scroll down to post #58 to read the relatively short section where this guy butted in. 911, and several other Vietnam vets were involved in the discussion. I doubt the guy who butted in ever served at all, with an attitude toward military veterans as he holds:

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/the-vietnam-war.54170/page-3

Tony
 
The video is being removed from youtube posts but the Daily Mail still has one that works.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-couple-shot-dead-neighbor-snow-argument.html

A few things to note as the couple approach him in the street for the final time the women appears to pull out a handgun of her own daring him to shoot her. Also they were alive after the first round of shooting. Some sites and commentators say the wife was cursing the killer out to the end/final shot. And I think the video although still there has been edited for some of the language. But another version you can just hear the hate and despite. This was never going to end well.
 
This is sad and a disturbing scene for all those having to respond to the scene.
I, for one would not like to be in a first response situation to have to see this personally.

I do not think we really think about those who do see this sometimes often and the toll it takes on them.

Where is the civility anymore ..... I lived in areas that had huge snowfalls.....
and I would not have thrown snow I cleared on anyone's area ... certainly not pushing it ACROSS a street...... they seemed to go out of their way to annoy this disturbed man.

This was really a bunch of bad decisions on both sides escalating.
People seem not to mature anymore they seem to remain idiots their whole lives.
 
I think part of the issue with couple and much of the public is that the street is public property and putting debris of anykind from private property is illegal dumping. But to take it across the street to the other guys sidewalk/property take a step beyond illegal dumping because now it's personal. But the guy should've called the township on them and have them cited.

My guess is they cut a lot of people slack after a snow as long as the roads are clear although I've seen that as well people putting their snow in the middle of the street assuming the salt, sun and heat from moving cars would melt it or be plowed away. But that's not always the case and their debris becomes packed snow then ice.
 
Jeni said:
This is sad and a disturbing scene for all those having to respond to the scene.
I, for one would not like to be in a first response situation to have to see this personally.

I do not think we really think about those who do see this sometimes often and the toll it takes on them.

Where is the civility anymore ..... I lived in areas that had huge snowfalls.....
and I would not have thrown snow I cleared on anyone's area ... certainly not pushing it ACROSS a street...... they seemed to go out of their way to annoy this disturbed man.

This was really a bunch of bad decisions on both sides escalating.
People seem not to mature anymore they seem to remain idiots their whole lives.
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Yes, there are women who live to make others' lives miserable.
And there are men who spend much of their lives looking for a fight so they have an opportunity to assert their manhood or show their wives how much "Man" they are.
This incident had both.
 
IMHO from the back and forth between them this wasn't even about snow but it appears to be the violent end to a long simmering issue. On one side it's just frozen water and on the other side you can only push some people so far and whatever happens right or wrong it's on you. As far as public safety personnel arriving at crime scenes such as this one is nothing like TV and the movie portrayals, some internalize their anguish, others engage in gallows humor, a very basic and puzzling aspect of sanity maintenance then a few resort to suicide.
 
911 said:
I watched the raw uncut video with sound. I really feel for my young Trooper friend. I plan on visiting with him tomorrow, even though it's a 2 1/2 hour drive one-way. I know how I felt when I saw my first dead body and then his autopsy. It is one of those things that can really stay with a person and mess you up, unless you speak to someone about it. Talking to others about events that stun a person is good therapy. At least, for me it is. This is why I put it here on the forum.
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911, I am very interested in the results of your visit. Were you able to help him?
 
911 said:
Shortly after my arrival in Vietnam, we went out on patrol. Only 17 of us went out, but only 16 came back. The Marine next to me was shot and killed by a sniper. Without thinking, I quickly returned fire and shot him. He fell out of the tree he was in and landed flat on his back. (I kept telling myself that the fall killed him and not my shot.) The other men came by and patted me on the back, but that's when I first felt that feeling of being stunned. I couldn't move for a few seconds. I had to reflect on what had just happened. I never told my parents about it until I returned home. I did find out that it's true what we used to say in law enforcement. After you kill one person, the next one comes easier. I think we all learned that over there.

But that's war for you. Not my personal life where we are taught to be more civilized and walk away when possible.
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My husband never got over what happened in Vietnam. It haunted him the rest of his life and colored and tainted everything after. And of course, the fact that he was firmly ensconced in the "real men don't need shrinks" school of masculinity didn't help.
 
Buckeye said:
911, hope all is well with the young Trooper, and that time will heal him.
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My heartfelt Prayers out to you both, I hope there was a Incident debriefing...
I hope he can get to the point he can except the outcome of stuff he will see as something totaly out of his control.
And understand there will be things that will trigger this memory years in the future... AND THATS NORMAL...
And if it brings a tear to his eye.... well thats normal too...
 
Butterfly said:
My husband never got over what happened in Vietnam. It haunted him the rest of his life and colored and tainted everything after. And of course, the fact that he was firmly ensconced in the "real men don't need shrinks" school of masculinity didn't help.
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I told the story that shortly after we had arrived in Vietnam and went out on our first patrol, the Marine beside me was shot and killed by a sniper. I saw him in the tree and without thinking at all, I raised my M-16 and fired maybe 5 or 6 rounds. He fell out and landed flat on his back. All the other guys came past and patted me on my back. I didn't realize what had happened for a few minutes. I relived that event for several days until it passed. First man I ever killed. After that, I gave no thought to what I had to do.
 

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