Should women be allowed to go topless?

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Brookswood said:
A friend of mine took a bunch of high school boys to a wrestling tournament in Hungary. They went to the beach on an off day and had both good and bad experiences. The bad experience was looking goofy in their baggy surfer swim wear than covered them from their waist to their knees. They all bought speedos and similar wear for another trip to a beach. The good experience was ogling the ample supply of women of all ages who were topless. The coach had a talk with them afterwards regarding cultural differences.
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And if those same young men grew up in an environment where it was not only acceptable but a normal occurrence to see topless women on the beach, they wouldn't have had such a visceral reaction.
 
Brookswood said:
I haven’t heard that Hooters went bankrupt. I assume the patrons must like the owl theme of the place.
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Hooters hasn't gone bankrupt, but they're not doing as well as they once did. As far as patrons liking the place, read on.

The Real Reason Hooters Is Disappearing Across The Country by DB Kelly/Updated: Oct. 4, 2021 11:01 am EST > https://www.mashed.com/129065/the-real-reason-hooters-is-disappearing-across-the-country/

Excerpt from the above article -

"It's hard to believe they've been doing it for more than 30 years, and according to USA Today, they haven't aged well. They called Hooters "a fading relic of the 1980s," and they've been on a very slow downward slide for a long time.

There's only one year in recent memory that they saw a sales increase, and even then it was just a pretty sad one percent. In 2008, they had 400 restaurants. By 2011, they had closed 35 locations and lost an annual revenue of more than $100 million (via Time). Between 2012 and 2016 they closed a further seven percent of their locations, says Business Insider. So what's going on with this bro-centric breastaurant?

Both men and women are finding it offensive and uncomfortable.

BrandIndex is a company that surveys a wide customer base across dozens of industries in order to determine what's trending and what's not. They took a hard look at Hooters in 2013, and what they found was pretty hilarious... or would be, if it wasn't so dismal. Customers were asked to rate Hooters on a numbered scale and the responses were pretty awful, both from women and from men.

Adding to the uncomfortable feeling people get from Hooters is the toll the work can take on the waitresses. In 2015, faculty from the University of Tennessee's psychology department set out to find what kind of consequences working in this environment had on waitress's mental health, and the findings were pretty disturbing (via The Conversation).

All the waitresses interviewed suffered from some degree of depression, anxiety, anger, confusion, and feelings of degradation. They also reported feeling demeaned on a regular basis. So if you've ever felt uncomfortable on behalf of the Hooters' girls, that might be why. Care for a side of awkwardness and degradation with those chicken wings? Didn't think so."

Hooters' original business strategy may have been to lure in the bros with, well, hooters, but some fascinating surveys suggest this tactic is failing for a weird reason: people just aren't feeling the need to oogle women's breasts at a "breastaurant" any more.

According to Business Insider, a meta-analysis from PornHub revealed some changing tastes in adult entertainment. When it came to the searches of people between 18 and 24 years old, they were the least likely to be looking for entertainment that was, well, breast-centric. Look at the age group that was between 55 and 64, and they're 17 percent more likely to be searching for breasts, but they're also not really the target market.

And they say that's a real problem for Hooters. The younger generation just isn't as impressed by women in low-cut shirts as their elders are, and when that's your schtick, it hurts your bottom line when it falls out of fashion."

And before anyone says that the girls don't have to work there, that's true; they don't, but when they choose to do so, they are required to wear a uniform. Wearing that uniform shouldn't come with a heaping helping of ogling, drooling, lascivious remarks, and getting hit on. They are people with feelings attached to those breasts, and they deserve to be treated with courtesy and respect no matter what they're wearing.
 
I’ve never been to a Hooters are any other such place. As the father of two daughters I don’t care for them. I guess
most people have more good taste than the Hooters crowd. A pleasant surprise. I would have thought they would be raking in the money.
 
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Bella said:
And if those same young men grew up in an environment where it was not only acceptable but a normal occurrence to see topless women on the beach, they wouldn't have had such a visceral reaction.
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Maybe not as strong a reaction, but there are still plenty of ways even a familiar female form can distract a guy. After all, women have been looking at bare male chests for decades, and they still get excited when Mr. Sixpack peals off his shirt on a warm day. As I have said before, we are hardwired that way. Survival of the species is important.
 
Avon said:
I don't think that blurred picture constitutes nudity, unless a person has an overactive imagination and a magnifying glass.
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Years ago I had photos of nude yoga where no body parts could be seen and they were taken down with an explanation. Matrix has advertising that helps pay for the site. Due to these google advertisers , who are very strict, they ask that sites they advertise on not use nudity. It’s not my active imagination that allows me to see a bunch of bunch of bare asses. It’s my eyesight.
 
Bella said:
Hooters hasn't gone bankrupt, but they're not doing as well as they once did. As far as patrons liking the place, read on.

The Real Reason Hooters Is Disappearing Across The Country by DB Kelly/Updated: Oct. 4, 2021 11:01 am EST > The Real Reason Hooters Is Disappearing Across The Country - Mashed

Excerpt from the above article -

"It's hard to believe they've been doing it for more than 30 years, and according to USA Today, they haven't aged well. They called Hooters "a fading relic of the 1980s," and they've been on a very slow downward slide for a long time.

There's only one year in recent memory that they saw a sales increase, and even then it was just a pretty sad one percent. In 2008, they had 400 restaurants. By 2011, they had closed 35 locations and lost an annual revenue of more than $100 million (via Time). Between 2012 and 2016 they closed a further seven percent of their locations, says Business Insider. So what's going on with this bro-centric breastaurant?

Both men and women are finding it offensive and uncomfortable.

BrandIndex is a company that surveys a wide customer base across dozens of industries in order to determine what's trending and what's not. They took a hard look at Hooters in 2013, and what they found was pretty hilarious... or would be, if it wasn't so dismal. Customers were asked to rate Hooters on a numbered scale and the responses were pretty awful, both from women and from men.

Adding to the uncomfortable feeling people get from Hooters is the toll the work can take on the waitresses. In 2015, faculty from the University of Tennessee's psychology department set out to find what kind of consequences working in this environment had on waitress's mental health, and the findings were pretty disturbing (via The Conversation).

All the waitresses interviewed suffered from some degree of depression, anxiety, anger, confusion, and feelings of degradation. They also reported feeling demeaned on a regular basis. So if you've ever felt uncomfortable on behalf of the Hooters' girls, that might be why. Care for a side of awkwardness and degradation with those chicken wings? Didn't think so."

Hooters' original business strategy may have been to lure in the bros with, well, hooters, but some fascinating surveys suggest this tactic is failing for a weird reason: people just aren't feeling the need to oogle women's breasts at a "breastaurant" any more.

According to Business Insider, a meta-analysis from PornHub revealed some changing tastes in adult entertainment. When it came to the searches of people between 18 and 24 years old, they were the least likely to be looking for entertainment that was, well, breast-centric. Look at the age group that was between 55 and 64, and they're 17 percent more likely to be searching for breasts, but they're also not really the target market.

And they say that's a real problem for Hooters. The younger generation just isn't as impressed by women in low-cut shirts as their elders are, and when that's your schtick, it hurts your bottom line when it falls out of fashion."

And before anyone says that the girls don't have to work there, that's true; they don't, but when they choose to do so, they are required to wear a uniform. Wearing that uniform shouldn't come with a heaping helping of ogling, drooling, lascivious remarks, and getting hit on. They are people with feelings attached to those breasts, and they deserve to be treated with courtesy and respect no matter what they're wearing.
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Our band played at the Playboy Club in Atlantic City. I was 32 and recently divorced. I REALLY liked playing there. I have to admit it was the Bunny's that made it attractive. I didn't gamble or drink, so getting to know the young women that worked there was fun. All kinds of girls from all over the world became Bunnies. I had a date with one from Spain who spoke English. I left early because she would only talk about all the money she made. She said that she got $1000 dollar tips from millionaires. Not a whole lot more to her. I also met college students who were very smart.
 
MsFox said:
To cast out a different light on the subject, how many of you would enjoy seeing a woman with a double mastectomy topless?
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I'm sure that would draw attention, but not much different than amputees, or any other types of disfigurement. We just notice that with a degree of sadness, but try as best we can, to not overreact, or treat them as less than anyone else. I doubt that anyone with a double mastectomy would ever go topless, because when we have things we are self-conscious of, we tend to hide that, or disguise it from public view. So unlikely to happen.
That being said, I don't think anyone should be ashamed of something they have no control over.
 
bobcat48 said:
I'm sure that would draw attention, but not much different than amputees, or any other types of disfigurement. We just notice that with a degree of sadness, but try as best we can, to not overreact, or treat them as less than anyone else. I doubt that anyone with a double mastectomy would ever go topless, because when we have things we are self-conscious of, we tend to hide that, or disguise it from public view. So unlikely to happen.
That being said, I don't think anyone should be ashamed of something they have no control over.
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That is a good healthy view in my opinion, but to further the discussion, would that still be considered nudity by public opinion or the law? How does a natural born female that has had her breast removed, differ from a male going topless? Wouldn't the male that has his boobs intact be presenting more nudity than the boob less female?

Isn't this a double standard? Now what about the trans women that have had breast reduction to a male looking presentation? She still has nipples, but presented differently. They can go topless and no one gets excited or any law is considered broken, since they identify as men.

Why can't a women go topless and when she is cited with public nudity, say she was identifying as a male on that particular day so she wasn't breaking any laws. By current law, how one identifies is what must be considered under the law, not what their biological birth sex is.
 
@Avon

You've clearly identified yourself as a misogynist. You enjoy disparaging women; you have done it repeatedly all over Senior Forums, and you just won't stop. You get your jollies from belittling us with your condescending attitude and insulting remarks and then waiting for a reaction. Thank you for showing us exactly who you are.
 
Gemma said:
Absolutely! It's her body, it should be her choice whether or not to go topless. Men are free to go topless...the law should be equal for all.
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About thirty years ago some students held the same view. They came up the most novelist of way to emphasise that.
cerne-air-2-blog.jpg
The Cerne Abbas Giant dates back thousands of years, his erect phallus doesn't even cause embarrassment. In fact the only time that it's been covered up was in WW2 to prevent it being a target for German bombers.

The Giantess, by the way, was made from easily disposable items in order to prevent damage and possibly for showing such consideration, highlighting their equality protest.
 
MsFox said:
That is a good healthy view in my opinion, but to further the discussion, would that still be considered nudity by public opinion or the law? How does a natural born female that has had her breast removed, differ from a male going topless? Wouldn't the male that has his boobs intact be presenting more nudity than the boob less female?

Isn't this a double standard? Now what about the trans women that have had breast reduction to a male looking presentation? She still has nipples, but presented differently. They can go topless and no one gets excited or any law is considered broken, since they identify as men.

Why can't a women go topless and when she is cited with public nudity, say she was identifying as a male on that particular day so she wasn't breaking any laws. By current law, how one identifies is what must be considered under the law, not what their biological birth sex is.
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Those are very good points you make, and gets at the heart of why I did the OP. There is no Federal ban on a woman going topless. In fact, it is within the scope of the constitution to guarantee freedom of expression. The states are the ones who are so divided. Some feel that is indecent, and lewd conduct, and others view it as not harmful in any way, and women should not be treated different from men.

I am with you on this. Breasts are breasts, and nipples are nipples, no matter if they are on a man or woman, and size or gender should be irrelevant. All arguments for singling out women on this issue are archaic, and just don't stand up to scrutiny, which is why they are beginning to be overturned. I'm sure some conservative states will fight to the end, but I think many more will give in to reversing an outdated law.

Again, this is not saying women should do this. That's up to them. It's just pointing out that the law is discriminatory with no standing.
 
Ah.. we have to leave the boys to their fantasies
that's all they can relate to at their time of life.
I feel certain the wives (if they have one) have put them out to pasture a long time ago ;)
 
Jamala said:
Hope they've got some thick towels to sit on!
Brighton beach is not sandy and those pebbles must
be tough on the butt :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
.
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That is better than the barbed wire and mines once on it. The year after their removal was the last time I sat on it, that lot is normally the London crowd. Try Ferring or the Witterings or if you want to join the naked old fatty brigade go east from Brighton to Eastbourne, you can step over them mile after mile.
 
MsFox said:
To cast out a different light on the subject, how many of you would enjoy seeing a woman with a double mastectomy topless? Should that be legal in public?
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I was a young woman the first time I saw this. I was a member of New York Health Club, she was in her fifties? couldn't tell, all I knew was she was older than me. I saw her in the mirror, she was standing next to me. I thought she was the bravest woman I had ever seen in my life. Those were the days women didn't last long. Never forgot that woman, obviously. She gave me a blast of courage just by seeing her, especially reviving her health at this club. I thought what a strong, marvelous woman!
 
How about Jamie Lee, 41. that did topless photos after a double, to promote flat chested is not only feminine, but beautiful?

She decided against reconstruction surgery, but had she had such, would photos of the reconstructed breast been viewed differently?

Would her photoshoot have been reviewed differently if she had posted a before photo? Would the before have been considered differently than the after?

To bring it closer to home, would this forum allow a female member to post a topless photo after having a double but not a before with breast?

Returning to the OP question, "should women be allowed" I asked who has the authority to tell women what they are going to allow them to do?

I am far from a "women libber," and opposed the women's movement in which many young women degraded all women with their ignorant signs, chants, speeches, costumes, and civil disobedience. They imposed on the rights of others, which is not the way to change anything. That movement undid a lot of what women accomplished during the early movements such as women's suffrage.

Maybe we should asked the question, "Should men be allowed to pee standing up?" While laws would be never passed and couldn't be enforced, we could start societal shaming of those uninhibited men that chose to stand and maybe get public urinals banned. I understand from those that clean those urinals, that such is a filthy biohazard, hahaha!

Did you guys know that men who stand to pee have a 78.43% greater chance of getting prostrate cancer? Hahaha!!!
 
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